1960 Cadillac vin number on engine block location

[cadfan1959]

Do 1960 Cadillacs have the vin number stamped on the block? or part of the vin number on the block? If so where on the block would it be? The engine in my '60 looks like a 1960 390 ( oil filter is screw-on below on passenger side) , but I have been asked if it is the original 390 engine or not? Not sure how to identify and any help would be appreciated. I've never been asked this before, I kind of thought matching numbers was more of a chevy thing.
Thanks in advance!
R.Dean
cadfan1959

[Dave Shepherd]

Should be just above the pan rail drivers side of the block, probably needs to be cleaned up to see it.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Also, the Engine Number is stamped on the Bellhousing Flange at the rear of the Left Cylinder Head.

Here again, you will need to clean the area, but it is easier to get to than having to climb under the car to get to the one near the sump.

Bruce.

[cadfan1959]

Thanks for the information. Can you also tell me if I am looking for the complete vin number or part of the vin number, or a "60"?

R.Dean
cadfan1959

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

These years only had an Engine Number, and the body had a Chassis Number.   The Engine Number is also stamped on the top of the Chassis, on the Left Side, just behind the Radiator Support.

The 17 character Numbers didn't start till into the end of the 60's I think.

But, the Engine Number, and Chassis Numbers should be virtually the same.

The Engine Number for a 1960 engine will have a Zero (0) as its' first number, indicating 1960

The Aluminium ID plate on the Firewall gives you the full Body Number.

Bruce.

[Hayden P]

My 1960 has the following info...

on aluminium plate on firewall is STYLE 60-6337 (60 being 1960, 6337 being Coupe deVille)
on plate on door edge is VIN 60J103498 (60 being 1960, J being CDV, 103498 ?)
on engine block just above sump is 60J087854
on LH frame in betwwen two stars is 60J087854

Can I deduce that it is original motor and matching numbers as frame and engine numbers match ?

If there was only 21,585 Coupe deVilles made in 1960, what  is  the 103498 in VIN ?  There were 142,184 Cadillacs made in 1960...is 103498, the consecutive number of cars build by Caddy ?

[Roger Zimmermann]

The 17 character Numbers didn't start till into the end of the 60's I think.

That system started in 1981...

[Matt Innocenzi]

Hayden,

The numbers on the block, in between the stars on the frame rail, on the plastic tag on the door edge, and on the title of the car should all read the same.  The fact that your engine number and frame number are the same tells me the plastic tag on the door edge was likely from another car.  That plastic tag is not very reliable, as it was only held on with two screws and gets very fragile with time.  The good news is your engine and frame match and the Series J matches your cowl tag.  Hopefully, the VIN on your title matches the frame rail and engine.

As for the location of the oil filter, that was a mid-year change.  My '60 was built December 30 1959 and has the spin on filter at the bottom of the engine, so the switch over must have happened not too much before that.

Matt

[Hayden P]

Matt... my car doesnt even have the plastic tag at door. The tag on my door edge is an aluminium plate with only VIN on it. (dont think it is factory fitted).

The thin metal aluminium tag on firewall has VIN on it which matches what is on title. My St.Louis Certificate of Title only lists a VIN and no engine number details.  Should VIN number on Fire Wall tag match frame and engine number ? If so... it doesnt make sense...as mine doesnt. Unless someone has put an entire new body on frame/engine... who knows

Can anyone else shed some light on this please

[n2caddies]

Hi Hayden
The real Vin number that matters and should match your title if done properly is the nine digit   one on the chassis right behind where the radiator is sitting on the frame on the driver side  it should state and end with a star symbol and the first 3 letters for a 1960 coupe Deville  should be 60J. The trim tag on the cowl will tell you what body style, exterior colors and accessories. Unfortunately cars get repaired and rebodied and unscrupulous people don't inform buyers of this. Personally and this my opinion only if a guy has the proper title for a body of a car that is rebodied to another chassis and I know it is illegal but again personally I see nothing wrong with changing the chassis VIN to match as long as it is disclosed. Not sure what would have been proper procedure in the day if that side of the car had the frame replaced from collision damage at a legitimate body shop. It may not matter now but you run into trouble in the future trying to sell the car to someone or a savvy DMV employee may figure that something is amiss.
Randy

[Hayden P]

Well...I am in Australia. And firewall VIN tag number is what is on all paperwork. Not registered yet. Could be interesting.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hi Hayden,
I thought you were in Oz. You got LOTS of good info so far. But... I'm confused. There is NO VIN tag on the firewall. I sold a car to Oz recently. Do NOT let your authorities lead you down that path. What does your paperwork say?? Please don't tell me your assigned VIN is 60-6337. Your car should be titled by the frame #. Please advise before I comment further.
HTH, Bob

[Roger Zimmermann]

Taking the body plate for the VIN is an error which happens from time to time in Europe too. Authorities and owners are thinking that the body plate on the cowl the only valid info as usually they don't know where the VIN is stamped on the frame and the dirt/rust prevents that it can be read easily.

[Hayden P]

sorry...not firewall tag...

see attached pics... first pic is on door frame opening near door light switch.

frame number and engine number were covered in grime... its no wonder they used door tag number.

either this body has been renumbered... or entire new body has been put on chassis.

[Roger Zimmermann]

That VIN tag on the "A" pillar was probably home made as there is no such tags on Cadillacs. Maybe a requirement from the authorities in your country?

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hayden,
Thanks for the great pictures. So, what VIN # is showing on your title?
Bob
Roger,
That error occurs everywhere because of Cadillacs stupidity in not having a VIN plate.
Bob

[Hayden P]

Roger... yep i didnt think it was a Cadillac fitted plate. My plastic Lube plate is missing... which showed numbers

Bob... 60J103498 is showing on all paperwork...as that is only visible number. I had to scrape and dig to find engine and frame numbers. Now I dont know what to do. I just checked numbers on US national title check... neither number show as Loss or Stolen. Car is being restored now. If I remove home made VIN number plate to paint door frame properly... do I put it back on ? My paperwork shows that number. When it comes time to register car... I dunno what to do ! 

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hayden,
NOW is time to correct this. It WILL come back to bite you later. Will the authorities allow you to remove the phony tag & go by the frame #??
If so, You're OK.
If not I would go back to the people you bought it from and ask them to provide a correct title or you will sue them .
Who did you buy it from?
HTH, Bob

[Hayden P]

Bought from Motoexotica in St.Louis. Already been issues with them. Sold as Rust free... full of rust... hence full restoration. I have sent request to local authorities and will see what they say.

[Matt Innocenzi]

Hayden,

I think you already figured this out from the posts, but the cowl tag has nothing to do with the VIN.  The cowl tag is from Fisher Body (or Fleetwood Body) that told the body builders which options the car would have (power accessories, A/C, etc.) so they could fit the body accordingly.  Once the body left the Fisher/Fleetwood plant for final assembly, the cowl tag was basically meaningless. 

The "real" VIN numbers are the ones on the chassis and the engine block.  These are the numbers used by DMV to identify the car.  The only number on the body what would match these numbers was the one on the plastic lube tag. 

What it appears happened in your instance is someone had a '60 Cadillac couple that did not have a title.  So, they took a title from who knows where, made up a phony plate to affix on the door jamb, and got a title to sell your car.  To the common person, it seems legitimate, as other divisions of GM, such as Pontiac and Chevy put the VIN on the door jamb like what you have, but not Cadillac.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is something you need to validate with the local authorities ASAP.

On a side topic, I am reading a book now called "Echoes of Norwood".  It talks about GM's Norwood assembly line and how the Fisher Body workers were competitors to Chevrolet assembly.  Similar to what we have been posting, the Fisher Body cowl tag basically has nothing to do with your VIN which came from Cadillac assembly.