Water pump identification

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 05:55:58 PM

Yeah, about that water pump pulley!!
I have one that came with the engine I got with the Coupe Deville, and it's a really heavy cast part with a super thick center hub section and an extention for the fan blade to sit on. The center is 1.215 inches thick!! It even has balancing holes drilled into the front face on the outer edge. This damned thing would act like a flywheel!! A sudden change in engine speed would severely stress the belts, lol!!
It would move the fan blade forward like a spacer would like what was used in later years.
Here's a few pictures of mine.

Another question. What did the original 56 crank pulley look like for an A/C car? Was it stamped steel, or cast?
My SDV has A/C and has a stamped pulley, but I got a cast pulley from another 56 parts car. Which is correct? Both are 3 groove.

Rick

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 06:00:45 PM

Clay, you mentioned that your 56 pump has the thick hub on it, but the pump I have with the C56 on it has the thinner hub.
Would the difference be because of air conditioning?

Rick

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 06:56:31 PM

Caddyholic,
What style of pump is on your '62? Can you see if it's got the extra passage on the front with the heater return port just below the thermostat on the right side? Or does yours have the return port just above the lower radiator hose?
I guess unless someone has a listing of casting numbers and applications, this is just passing in the wind. But it would be nice to know what this stuff is supposed to fit.

Rick

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 06:57:26 PM

To identify all of these I think we would require a casting listing as well as information as to what was available from an after market perspective, which I don't have. They may not all be OEM. Some may also have been re-worked at a later date. About all I can do is decipher what is in the MPL in which I only consulted one from 1956 as I thought there were a couple of those in your parts collection, (which also compared favourably with what is on my car-that provided a start). Still was a lot work to research. As the above posts note, it is not as clear cut as we would like. Even in my case I was surprised to learn that some 1956 water pumps apparently lacked that large fitting, perhaps explainable by way of what options a car may have rolled off of the assembly line without. But that is still reasoned speculation and not 100%. So identifying them all would require a similar approach by those with the knowledge to explain the oddities you mentioned, (in the absence of other detailed reference material). Could be a daunting task.

Clay/Lexi

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 07:00:21 PM

Would this be something you could find out in the authentication manual, or whatever it's called?

Rick

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 07:06:30 PM

Yes Rick, that is the unit I was refering to. Yours appears to be a 1956 fan hub for an AC equpped car. Probably was used for more than one year. Right down to the drilled spots for balancing. The light weight non-AC pulley did use a spacer between the shaft and the inside of the pulley, (so not visible). Believe it was aluminum and sort of cross shaped. So if anyone goes to install one without that, you would have belt lining up issues. As I recall my crank case pulley is cast iron as well. Will look for photos. Clay/Lexi

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 07:26:09 PM

Can't find any images right now.

Clay/Lexi

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 07:37:43 PM

Quote from: Cadman-iac on January 15, 2024, 07:00:21 PMWould this be something you could find out in the authentication manual, or whatever it's called?

Rick

Identification of all of these units? Not sure as have not seen all of the Cadillac Authenticity Manuals. Now I can't find that. Clay/Lexi

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 07:43:35 PM

Quote from: Lexi on January 15, 2024, 07:06:30 PMThe light weight non-AC pulley did use a spacer between the shaft and the inside of the pulley, (so not visible). Believe it was aluminum and sort of cross shaped. So if anyone goes to install one without that, you would have belt lining up issues. As I recall my crank case pulley is cast iron as well. Will look for photos. Clay/Lexi

My 55 doesn't have any spacer for the pulley, I took the pulley off to get pictures. But it lined up exactly with the crank pulley.

I also looked at the interchange manual I've got to see if it made anything more clear. But it was about as clear as mud.

I apologize for the pictures being upside-down and sideways, I still haven't figured out how to correct that.

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 07:44:49 PM

Here they are, a set of 1956 Cadillac pulleys, from L - R: 1) "Tallboy" 1956 AC installed fan hub with triple groove, (think this is the one currently on my car) 2) "Fat boy" non-AC double groove (note cross pattern in paint on top middle). That is where the spacer actually went, (correct my former comment). Spacer is gone but outline still there. 3) Cast iron dampner 4) Cast iron crank pulley. Shot 2 is a 1956 Cadillac press photo showing some of these in action. Clay/Lexi

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 07:50:02 PM

Quote from: Cadman-iac on January 15, 2024, 07:43:35 PMMy 55 doesn't have any spacer for the pulley, I took the pulley off to get pictures. But it lined up exactly with the crank pulley.

Rick

Most of my cars and the ones I have worked on had AC. The few that were not, and had the "fatboy" pulley all had the aluminum spacer. Sitting here I cannot comment on your case. I could later search the MPL for it. Attached are shots of the inside and outside of the Tallboy and Fatboy pulleys from a 1956 Cadillac. Clay/Lexi

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 07:56:09 PM

On at least one fan that I removed, the spacer was stuck onto the fan inner hub itself. So when the fan came off so did the spacer which stuck to the reverse side of the fan. Maybe it is there which may explain why you did not see it? Or perhaps someone shimmed the other components to line all up? Hard to tell from here. Clay/Lexi

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 07:57:58 PM

Quote from: Lexi on January 15, 2024, 07:44:49 PMHere they are from L - R: 1) "Tallboy" 1956 AC installed fan hub with triple groove 2) "Fat boy" non-AC double groove (note cross pattern in paint on top middle). That is where the spacer actually went, (correct my former comment). Spacer is gone but outline still there. 3) Cast iron dampner 4) Cast iron crank pulley. Shot 2 is a 1956 Cadillac press photo showing some of these in action. Clay/Lexi

Yep, I've got 1 of each of those. Plus the stamped 3 groove crank pulley on the SDV parts car, and the 2 groove crank pulley on the 55. I just haven't pulled them off yet.
Since I have 2 different types of 3 groove crank pulleys, could the difference be because one is factory A/C and the other is dealer added A/C? Not that it makes much difference.

Rick

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 08:01:05 PM

Quote from: Cadman-iac on January 15, 2024, 07:57:58 PMYep, I've got 1 of each of those. Plus the stamped 3 groove crank pulley on the SDV parts car, and the 2 groove crank pulley on the 55. I just haven't pulled them off yet.
Since I have 2 different types of 3 groove crank pulleys, could the difference be because one is factory A/C and the other is dealer added A/C? Not that it makes much difference.

Rick

That could be the reason. Perhaps one "stands off" more than the other, therby eliminating the spacer in one of them? Clay/Lexi

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 08:05:49 PM

Or perhaps it was a stop gap measure to accommodate different specs in parts installed at the time of assembly...to use or not to use a spacer, depending on the parts available. Clay/Lexi

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: Lexi on January 15, 2024, 07:56:09 PMOn at least one fan that I removed, the spacer was stuck onto the fan inner hub itself. So when the fan came off so did the spacer which stuck to the reverse side of the fan. Maybe it is there which may explain why you did not see it? Or perhaps someone shimmed the other components to line all up? Hard to tell from here. Clay/Lexi

I looked at the inside of the 55 pulley, no spacer there either. Not sure if it may have had one at one time between it and the blade. The blade was already gone when I got it.

I do have a bunch of different fan spacers I've collected over the years, and there's a few of those thin X types.

Honestly, I have only seen one water pump pulley that had a spacer between it and the pump, and it was put there in an effort to get the pump and crank pulleys to line up correctly. But even that was just a thin washer design.

Rick

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 08:09:00 PM

Quote from: Lexi on January 15, 2024, 08:05:49 PMOr perhaps it was a stop gap measure to accommodate different specs in parts installed at the time of assembly...to use or not to use a spacer, depending on the parts available. Clay/Lexi

That's possible.

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 08:11:34 PM

While digging through the stuff I stashed in the trunk of my 63 parts car, I found another water pump!!

I also found a couple other things that I can't identify, but I'll start a new thread for those.

Rick

Lexi · January 15, 2024, 08:13:31 PM

Ones I have here as I recall are chunky. Will look for a photo, but don't think I got one on file short of searching through a pile of stuff to take a photo. Think it was like 1/4 inch aluminum, but I could be wrong. Clay/Lexi

Cadman-iac · January 15, 2024, 08:16:01 PM

Quote from: Lexi on January 15, 2024, 08:13:31 PMOnes I have here as I recall are chunky. Will look for a photo, but don't think I got one on file short of searching through a pile of stuff to take a photo. Think it was like 1/4 inch aluminum, but I could be wrong. Clay/Lexi

Yeah, the X types I've got are between 1/2" and 1". Not very thick.

Rick

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Water pump identification