Or with our old cars, is there such a thing? How far do you go to make sure your car is ready for a road trip? Do you check all the fuel, transmission and brake lines for rubbing/abrasions? Pull wheels/drums to look at brakes? Check for leaks? Change all the fluids? including gear oil in the diff? How do you check the electrical?
I'm wanting to drive my (new to me) '70 de Ville (with rebuilt engine/trans) on a road trip, but I'm leery. Would like to have a tow truck follow me, not really, but that's what I think. Not having any issues, but as we all know, the unknown is lurking around the corner. A subscription to AAA? Bring tools and spare parts?
What say you?
Very interesting question. I'm in my 14th year driving my 1955CDV,and,had my share of problems pertaining to reliability problems.(gas tank outlet totally plugged resulting in a tow,a Petronix ignition module failure,and a Petronix coil failure(X2)) Once one has a breakdown,it takes many miles to rebuild confidence. (should you have a breakdown,hope that your wife isn't with you!)EVERY mechanical action I take on my car calls for extreme tests before calling her roadworthy again. Should I ever fail to test adequately,generally it results in problems and more work. When I see cars run across the auction stage,I think "I hope he/she has a mechanic with them to get it home".
'Roadworthy" and "dependable" comes from time,miles,careful maintenance,and successful proven road miles.(certain spare parts should also be within close reach)
I feel totally confidient to drive my car anywhere as I know its complete history since new. My only concern is other cars/drivers on the road and my fear to park the car unattended. As to road worthiness - none!
Yeah, overnight in a hotel would be a little unnerving.
For those who drive theirs to the GN, they settle in hotels for the evening. Must not be an issue as I don't hear of cars getting stolen. Or they do and it's not talked about on the forum?
Others, on other forums, have said if you are worried about leaving the car unattended then you don't have it properly insured. I dunno, cash to replace your car, one that takes years to get in the shape it's in? I think I'd rather keep the car.
Back when I was in school, I had an old Mercury. I would drive about 95 miles home every few months. I took every tool I had, extra water, extra oil and even a CB (It was longer ago than I would like to admit). The old thing never let me down tho. Just as a note, It had a 23 gallon tank and I would have to fill up before I went back....... That's fill up with both gas and oil.
Certain things are just out of my control. I have AAA+ which gives me 100 miles of towing. That is my limit. If I can't get it home to fix it, I don't need to be that far away.
Jeff
For those who have had their cars restored (ground up; frame off), are your cars dependable? Or is it always a "work in progress"? I also assume replacement parts fail on "restored" cars just like the do on other cars.
Just a note here folks. You may notice that many of the cars that are "disabled" along the highways and freeways are new. Nothing mechanical (or electrical) is free of the possibility of failure. If the car runs well, doesn't leak (anything) doesn't consume great quantities of oil or coolant, has new hoses and belts then typically it is just as dependable as it was when it was new and "state of the art". Being a Cadillac they were built for the road. Cross country trips were their main suit, and although time ages anything mechanical most failures of parts or systems can be predicted well in advance of catostrophic failure. An extra fuel pump, alternator (and or generator and regulator) and possibly a set of belts and hoses will in most instances be enough to get you to where you are going and then home.
Greg Surfas
The best way to be sure your car is road worthy is to drive it. Drive it to the grocery store, the park, around the block, anywhere. The short trips will help find the weak spots. You will also build confidence in the car.
Firstly, nobody should be driving an un-roadworthy vehicle.
Secondly, nobody should be driving an un-insured vehicle.
Thirdly, nobody should be driving any sort of distance away from home without Auto Club Roadside Membership.
The first car I took it for a drive and did the usual checks and tests, and the second one, after an initial test drive, knowing everything was alright, the first long trip was amongst all the pre-action of Woodward Drive. Great to be driving down Woodward, top down, 6 in the car, just cruising.
As for extended trips, I have never had a problem with driving any of my cars anywhere, and even cars that I have just purchased.
2002 I purchased an '89 Thunderbird V6 from pictures, and when I arrived in USA I changed all the tyres, new Battery, Oil and Filter, and checked the brakes. It needed a pair of Engine Mounts, but careful driving didn't cause any problem so they stayed in place. Then proceeded to drive 14,750 Miles around USA and into Canada over just under 4 Months. Had to call out the AAA in Florida when the engine spilled out all the radiator fluid following a lunchtime stop midway in a 600 mile drive to Millington TN. Got towed to a place where I couldn't find the leak, filled the radiator with water, and Barrs Leak, and off on the way again. (Cause of leak found in Nevada and the recovery tank had a split in it, and only dropped out the water when it got hot, and then closed up when cold)
2007, purchased the '72 Eldo, off Ebay in New York, and before I collected the car in 2008, on my second trip to USA, a couple of CLC Members kindly transported it and stored the car over the Winter in Detroit and replaced the AC Compressor and fan belts. After a couple of days of cleaning it out, after I arrived in Detroit, replaced a bald spare tyre, checked the brakes, changed a few lights, and some temporary upholstery rethreading, headed off from Detroit to Cherry Hill, and North East USA and SE Canada for 4,600 Miles over a couple of Months. Replaced another tyre in Connecticut (Separation of Steel Belts) This car never let me down, but found a few water leaks around the top of the screen. (Turned out to be a poorly-sealed windscreen) The tyres on the car when I purchased it were like new, but after the initial separation, when I got the car home, and a few years later, two more decided to separate their treads.
Would I do it again? Yes. When a car is a bomb, and looks like a bomb, it will probably give strife.
Bruce. >:D
I like to keep my 1970 Cadillac what I think to be road worthy and never hesitate to drive it anywhere. However, generally if I can drive to GN in a day (say 12 hours max) I will do it, otherwise no. The best way to keep the car mechanically good is to drive it as Glen suggested and keep it up as Greg suggested. Start taking it on trips that are not consequential if the car fails. Just before GN, I make sure to drive mine on a few 100 mile trips.
At Boston GN, I replaced the starter just before I left and even brought a spare starter. The new starter was unreliable and Greg helped me make is so solenoid pulled in 75% of the time instead of 25%, and yeah I grabbed the wrong spare of the shelf. Replaced it when I got home. I have driven it 35k miles in 9 years. Knocking on wood it has never left me stranded or needed a tow.
It seems the wrench turners seem most successful in not breaking down. The frame off restored by others cars are usually not sorted perfectly. Many I know who paid big money for a frame off, who is not mechanical suffered a stupid problem later due to failure of the resto shop to drive it 100 miles after to get bugs out. One of my friends who is a wrench turner paid a hefty price for a restoration and the choke/carb is preventing it from starting and gas tank leaks at fuel line connection-really?!
The more you drive it the more you will enjoy and trust it,
Scot
A heater core failure does not have to be a show stopped. When I got my Seville, which I think had done a lost of sitting over the last few years before I got it, on the first shakedown drive, the heater core and the a/c compressor went. I was able to bypass the heater core, and later, when the compressor went, pry the a/c belt off, and get home (20 miles on the freeway).
My wife & I want to drive US 66 eventually. That will be at least a 6,000 mile trip. The car has made one 500 mile trip and several 2-300 mile trips.
I'm pretty confident in the drivetrain, but there are several items I'd take.
Toolbox and jumper cables
Service Manual set
Box with oil, brake fluid (DOT5), coolant, etc.
Belts, incl AC bypass set
Hoses incl heater hose
Neutral Switch & a small jumper wire
Points & Condenser, Coil, Rotor, Cap
Spark plugs
Water Pump
PS Pump w pulleys
Alternator w regulator
Starter
AC Compressor (maybe - depends on how old the one in the car is)
Climate control parts; controller, Master sw, Power Servo, Transducer, etc
Wire in 2 or 3 colors and sizes
My toolbox has some wire connectors and all the small bulbs
The first 6 or 7 are always in the car. The others would be added for a trip that took more than 1 day to complete.
Things like brake pads, filters, spark plug wires, etc., are not listed because I keep track of service intervals and these should not fail on a trip. No so for belts & hoses. Those can go anytime. Plus they are all readily available anywhere.
I'll drive it anywhere in FL or southern GA.
I would trust my '58 SDV to go just about anywhere that is paved. The only reasons I don't take it on long trips are:
1) wet weather--not that it can't handle it, but I want to keep the car dry so its solid body stays that way. It hasn't faced more than a sprinkle since 2001.
2) bad gas mileage. My long trips are typically 1000-1300 miles round trip. Our 35+ mpg honda civic can do it for < half the price.
I took it on 1200+ miles trip in 2001, and the only issue was running out of gas once because I trusted the fuel gauge and its new sending unit too much (empty while it showed about 1/8 of tank--lesson learned).
I have AAA+, so as long as I stay within 100 miles of home, I can get it flat-bedded home for free if I have a problem.
Forgot to mention, the other "thing" not to forget is to include the CLC International Membership Directory, no matter where in the World you are driving.
You will always find a helping hand close by.
Bruce. >:D
This is a very interesting discussion. Will's comment about bringing a spare made me think of the 1908 Race when the Thomas Flyer won, and all of the preparations and woes the early racers and driers had back then.
I had about 4 years of "getting the bugs out" on my '56 after the restoration. It was probably my fault for having an "Amathan" (Irish for "idiot") put the engine back together. Problems certainly do seem to crop up. A lot of them are unreliable "new" parts. You think that you've fixed something only to have it either wear out prematurely or fail due to poor quality, especially ignition parts these days!
I drove my '56 up to Hershey in 2008 and the car performed wonderfully (about a 6+ hour drive from SE Virginia). We even drove all around the Gettysburg battlefield in it. I did end up with a leaking power steering hose (my fault for not replacing the hose when I replaced the pump), but my brother patched it up and we made it home with minimal leaking along the way (and me "sweating bullets" all of the way). It would take me a few months of regularly driving the car to feel safe and confident enough to drive it around. I do cringe when I park it and leave it in a parking lot. It's bad enough with the regular daily driver with the door-bangers and people who can't back up properly....yikes! I already suffered a few deep scratches just from car shows so I'm careful about where I drive it and park it these days.
Perhaps a different perspective beyond "road worthy" and "dependable" would be "Will my car perform as expected should an unforeseen traffic situation occur" like heavy stop and go traffic (overheating), being cut off by another car (good brakes), having to pass or maneuver around a potential problem (acceleration).
Our classics should perform mechanically like our every day drivers. Yes, I know drum brakes don't stop as quickly as disks (and I admit I always speed up a little when approaching a green traffic camera patrolled intersection with that in mind).
I think my biggest fear is road construction, the associated gravel and the potential for tire failure. Tire failure can happen to any car we drive and beyond taking the usual precautions we have to remember this. A tire blow out at 60 MPH is no fun in a new or classic car!
The only real spare parts I carry is my spare tire and a spare fuel filter.
If I'm going on a long trip like GN, I do not quite go to the extent of Mike, but carry a floor jack, full tool compliment including two-1-1/4" wrenches (needed for fuel filter replacement), and spare alternator, starter, water pump, volt reg, and ignition parts. Then of course have bailing wire, sand paper, floor jack, fender covers, and something to lay on ground plus work clothes to change into. No a/c parts because just want to make it home. This all fits in the trunk with much room top spare for luggage cooler and etc.
If it is a short day trip, then all of above except no large heavy stuff such as starter, water pump, floor jack, jack stand fender cover and material to lay on.
You know how it is if you are prepared, you will not need any of this stuff. Most of the time I use it on other peoples cars at the GN.
When I headed out for the 2014 GN, I changed the oil, greased the front end, topped off the fluids, and hit the road with Visa in hand. I figured since it's 2014, between local parts stores, specialty parts suppliers, and eBay, I could get anything I needed overnighted to me wherever I was to. We had the trunk so full of luggage, detailing supplies, and lawn chairs, there was only room for a couple spare quarts of oil, a gallon of premixed coolant, transmission fluid, and my lead additive.
YMMV
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on December 22, 2014, 09:49:14 AM
If I'm going on a long trip like GN, I do not quite go to the extent of Mike, but carry a floor jack, full tool compliment including two-1-1/4" wrenches (needed for fuel filter replacement), and spare alternator, starter, water pump, volt reg, and ignition parts. Then of course have bailing wire, sand paper, floor jack, fender covers, and something to lay on ground plus work clothes to change into. No a/c parts because just want to make it home. This all fits in the trunk with much room top spare for luggage cooler and etc.
If it is a short day trip, then all of above except no large heavy stuff such as starter, water pump, floor jack, jack stand fender cover and material to lay on.
You know how it is if you are prepared, you will not need any of this stuff. Most of the time I use it on other peoples cars at the GN.
Scot -
If I go on any long trips, I want to follow you! If I get stuck you have everything I could possibly need plus good technical advice!
Great subject. I am planning driving to the Las Vegas G N in 2016. according to Google it is 1100 + miles and about 18 hours so definitely at least a two day trip. I am considering driving my 1942-6719 which is nearing completion of an extensive restoration or my 1957-60 Special which has 80,000 miles. I have just started driving and touching up the 57 and will be driving the 42 before spring.
Since the G N is in, April Air Conditioning will not be a factor in my decision. Both cars will have 5 new tires and the 42 has new everything basically. I am getting ready to do a complete safety check and replacement on the 57. I have 15 months to check out both cars and make the decision. I would prefer to have the 42 there and will be leaning in that direction and hopefully I can have it broken in and develop confidence in it prior to registration deadline.
Luckily both cars have trunks large enough to take a full complement of spares and tools. I even have an amber rotating light on a magnetic base but it is 12 volt so if i bring the 42 it will stay home. Part of my kits are safety vests such as highway workers wear and plenty of fluorescent folding danger signs and flares.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
I have not been very active yet in the local chapter of the Cadillac LaSalle club but hopefully by then I will know a few members and possibly form up a small convoy. Safety in numbers always.
No matter how well you think you have prepared your car, sometime it doesn`t matter as you find out at the most inopportune time. Picture below is yours truly with the hood up, trunk open, blocking traffic at an intersection just south of Sedona. I am the CARavan coordinator for 80 cars starting a 900 mile trip through Arizona who had written a letter to all participants saying make sure you car is well prepared for this tour. Well that evening at the social hour is when I was asked if I had read my own letter. That is the time when one learns to eat humble pie over and over. Turns out I had a partial blockage of the fuel strainer at the inlet on the back of the Stromberg carb. Bill
Gary, Las Vegas record high for March is 96 and record high for April is 102....just something to consider since you mentioned A/C....
Thanks William, I was basing my thoughts on average temperatures as I found on Google and apparently what the committee used to schedule the G N for April 12 as I recall? Google says average temps are 78 degrees Fahrenheit for April. Just prior to the G N, I may be planning a trip for a week at Frontsight firearms training in Pahrump West of Las Vegas, A week of fun in the sun putting expensive holes in paper targets.
I consider the car roadworthy and dependable when I have driven it so much and sorted out every last little issue that comes up. When I get it to the point where I could just flip the keys to someone else, like my wife or kids, and say "here, drive the car today instead of yours" and not worry about whether they will be left on the side of the road, then it is really ready!
Gary, if you are going to Pahrump, take some time to ride out another 1+ hours to Death Valley....I've been there the last 3 Aprils and planning to go again this year. I'd love to drive my '58 out there one day....with gas prices dropping it might be feasible to do the 4500 mile round trip soon....
I bought my '49 in 1984 in Chicago and started out driving it home to Georgia without knowing much about it. After 100 miles the differential pinion seal failed and I had to call a transport company to ship it the rest of the way. This made me nervous about driving it long distances. Finally, after getting it in shape and with renewed confidence, in 1991, with a trunk full of spare parts and tools my wife and I drove it 450 miles to the GN in Cincinnati with no problems. In fact, on that trip we convoyed with a friend towing his '41 on a trailer, and when the tow vehicle's transmission failed in TN, it was we in our "old" car who bailed him out.
Now overflowing with confidence, in 1993 we decided to drive it 750 miles to the GN in Lancaster PA. But we were committing the sin of pride, and in Virginia the generator armature shorted out, which in turn cooked the ammeter and voltage regulator. Thankfully, the motor still ran on the battery, and luck was with us when we limped into Lynchburg and saw a '56 Lincoln parked in front of an auto parts store. The proprietor owned the Lincoln, sold us a NORS 6 volt regulator and directed us to an auto electric shop nearby which worked on old cars. The shop took apart the generator, installed an armature from a scrapped Olds generator, and in 2 hours we were on our way. (BTW: that armature still works perfectly.)
Since then, I've driven the car to 13 more GNs and on 2 national driving tours as far away as Maine and Texas. I always spend a few days beforehand servicing the car for the trip, and take essential tools and a fairly extensive list of spare parts. The only problems subsequent to 1993 have been minor, including bulbs burning out as well as hub caps flying off the wheels and losing themselves. I hope to drive to the 2015 GN in Milwaukee.
PS My friend and fellow wrench turner, the late Frank DeCou, drove his '40 LaSalle to GNs as far away as California and Rhode Island and now the long distance award is named after him.
Folks,
Don't want to highjack the post but Jay brings up an issue that one needs to consider.
The failure of the generator can fry the voltage regulator and other parts. The best insurance is a regulator fuse installed on the "B" terminal of the voltage regulator. Then if the generator shorts out it will blow the fuse on the voltage regulator and the problem is isolated to the generator.
I think I convinced Jay to install one on the 1949.
You never know when a part will fail.
The Johnny
John. Is this why you see a fuse on the later cars on the wire for the generator light?
Quote from: John Washburn CLC 1067 on December 22, 2014, 05:44:15 PM
Folks,
Don't want to highjack the post but Jay brings up an issue that one needs to consider.
The failure of the generator can fry the voltage regulator and other parts. The best insurance is a regulator fuse installed on the "B" terminal of the voltage regulator. Then if the generator shorts out it will blow the fuse on the voltage regulator and the problem is isolated to the generator.
I think I convinced Jay to install one on the 1949.
You never know when a part will fail.
The Johnny
Hi John,
I know nothing about electricity but also realize the wisdom posted here by you, Jay, and others. Can you tell me how many amps that fuse should be? My car has been running outstanding and I want it to continue (did I just jinx myself?)
Ray Schuman
#26141
I would take all of the normal precautions that have been mentioned as well as a AAA Plus membership. That gives you towing coverage as well as lockout service, flat repairs, dead battery, even running out of gas, and they will tow up to 100 miles for free.
Cheap insurance and it covers any car you are riding in. I helped out a fellow Cadillac owner who's 76 FI Eldo was spewing gas all over the intake by calling AAA and telling them I was riding with him to a car show. He was about 70 miles from home and that got him home with the car for free.
As long as you have good points, cap and rotor on your car and gas in the tank, it will run.
If we worried about fuel pumps, water pumps, starters, and alternators failing every time we go out with the car, you would just want to stay home.
A 70 Cadillac is a VERY reliable machine.
Brian
Ray,
I could tell you the fuse rating you need but the picture is to small for me to determine what year the Cad is.
The Johnny
Dan,
Not sure. if you are talking about the 1962 then, I think yes it would short out the fuse and stop the electrical flow to the generator which should protect the generator.
Never looked at the late models to see this fuse.
the Johnny
Dan,
I was trying to say it would protect the voltage regulator.
the Johnny
Quote from: John Washburn CLC 1067 on December 22, 2014, 08:41:55 PM
Ray,
I could tell you the fuse rating you need but the picture is to small for me to determine what year the Cad is.
The Johnny
So sorry, John
My Caddy is a '49 series 62, 4 door sedan. I want to thank you on behalf of all the members for the great information we receive from you and the great articles. It makes ownership for me less intimidating.
Ray Schuman
#26141
The fuse should also be easy enough to conceal.
Ray,
the generator out put is 40-46 amps.
drop me a pm if you want the correct one.
The Johnny
I've learned to go with your gut. If you question it, then fix it, spare part it or replace it or don't be surprised when it fails on the trip. Can't even count the times I've been bitten by the "told you so" voice in my head at the curbside.
Bill
My apologies to cadillacmike68; it was indeed your list of spare parts that I agree with. I would add to the list a copy of the CLC membership directory. If you have a problem, a local member could provide the name of a local workshop or, who knows, even come out and help you get the car running again.
To 76eldo: I agree that if you have a good ignition system and gas in the tank the car will run well and, no, I don't worry about fuel pumps, water pumps, starters, and alternators (generator in my case) failing every time I go out with the car locally. However, a long trip away from your home base is different. Then you are without any knowledge of local resources, and if you don't have sufficient tools and spare parts as well, you can find yourself in a dicey situation. A '49 like mine is a very reliable machine too, and I've put many miles on it in since I've owned it with only a couple of road problems. But as the saying goes "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it".
To John Washburn: Yes, I had a fuse on the BAT terminal of my regulator as per your good advice when I had a 40 amp generator. However, I removed when I changed to a 45 amp 1952 generator and regulator as I couldn't find a suitable fuse. Any further advice as to where I can find one?
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 22, 2014, 12:43:18 AM
Firstly, nobody should be driving an un-roadworthy vehicle.
Secondly, nobody should be driving an un-insured vehicle.
I was not suggesting anybody drive an unsafe vehicle, but you can not find many problem by letting it idle in the driveway. You have to test everything as best as you can in the driveway before you go out on the road.
It is my experience that cars are like women, the more you fuss over them the better their disposition. Ignore them and they will give you trouble.
I would not put a fuse in a generator circuit. The output could be handled by a far more
reliable fuseable link of proper size. Bruce Roe
I really don't expect failures on the road. Drove the 77 130,000 miles in the last 8 years.
That includes trips to the north, south, and east borders, not the Pacific yet. 180 miles
are just a routine weekend. Have done 1100 miles in a day many times, my record is
1250 from Fort Meyers to NW IL in a day. I'm too old to repeat that, but the car doesn't
care.
My method is good maintenance. If a part has a predictable failure rate, I change it out
before that number. Water pumps, alternator bearings, 60,000 miles. Starter and alternator
brushes 100,000 miles. Coolant hoses 4 years, about that for tires. Other hoses longer, not
forever. Gas tank off for inspection or swap every decade and a half. Heater core 18 years.
Timing chain is a roller set. Pull trans & go through maybe every 120,000 miles, probably
doesn't need much. Radiator swap anytime it can no longer keep the gauge locked at 185.
Some things have been reworked to eliminate failure points. My belt arrangement lets me
drive the car home without either the power steering or the A/C (not both) in case of complete
failure; has happened. Exhaust system usually isn't a show stopper, but mine is 304 stainless,
as are brake lines. A dual circuit brake system can usually get you home if a line doesn't start
leaking.
You can't have too many gauges, must have is engine temperature.
While the drive train is very reliable, I carry a few spare parts that might be hard to find for an old
car on the road. Have had light tools, spare lights and belts forever; lately an HEI, alternator, and
water pump. For the injected 79, the fuel pumps got worked over, there is a special HEI, a spare
ECU, and a spare ESS module. Might throw something else in if I suspect anything.
Some things give lots of warning. In 74 I drove home from Alaska on a bad U joint. 2 weeks
later the trans blew, I put in a heavy duty model.
There are no absolutes, but driving the car a lot is a good test. Making failures very rare is the idea.
In a million and a half miles, I have had some failures that were impossible to anticipate. Most likely
is bad aftermarket parts, beware. Bruce Roe
Brian,
The 1970 Cadillac is reliable, and it has never left me stranded in nine years and 35k miles. The reading material on this subject recommends that you carry a spare fuel pump, alternator, starter, and etc. as I listed, and just going along with the experts. Except for a starter that was really just a bad replacement, not the fault of the car, is the only thing that gave me trouble. It got me home from GN 2013 nonetheless. Then I replaced the bad new starter at home with a good re-built - those seem to be the way to go.
The "Would you hand over the keys to your wife or daughter?" is also another good perspective. I have a few times, so should be good.
This is a very good discussion. I personally drive My '72 Eldorado Convertible as my daily driver and I never heasitate to drive my '61 Sedan DeVille 4 window either. Partly it is because I am 60 and it is hard for me to wrap my brain around the fact that one car is 42 and the other is 53 because the time they were new is clear in my memory and my family owned cars like these almost new , so I know when they feel and sound right and they have no computers or stuff that a 15 year old car has that if it fails could cost much more to repair or you cannot get the electronics anymore period. So , esentially I believe I am not afraid to drive old Cadillac's because I have the major systems updated and then keep an eye on things while I believe the Good Lord will keep an eye on me. I think the suggestion earlier of carrying a copy of CLC membership book is great. I know if a Member called us in a panic we would respond. And finally I believe it is wise to allign yourself with one or two local repair shops that are friendly and will repair classic cars reasonably.
Will,
I am an ex boy scout, and an army Colonel. That long list is only for a long trip. The top half (belts, hoses, points, etc) takes up hardly any space, and I stuff it behind and around the spare tire. My crate of brochures, photos and old advertising memorabilia takes up more space in the trunk, than those parts.
I've gone 600+ miles in a weekend like this and haven't had to use any of it. But it's there, just in case.
That said, Rt 66 is expected to be a 6,000 mile journey. I'm taking those extra items on a trip like that, and any where I need more than 1 day to get there.
I bought my '49 in 1986 in Cleveland (OH). Flew there from Augusta (GA) paid the owner and drove alone the 700 miles to my home with just a jack, the spare tire and a lot of confidence.
I left Cleveland at 3AM and reached my home in Augusta at 7PM. It was a wonderful trip.
Speaking of old guys, in 2005 I drove my '49 700+ miles to the GN in Des Moines IA, convoying along with CLCer Joe Patten in his '41 Fleetwood. My having done this was not particularly noteworthy as I was only 65 at the time, but Joe was 78 and he had a marvelous time. We took it easy by taking in the sights to be seen over the course of 3 days, including the Mark Twain museum, Hannibal MO. To top it all off we both won prizes for our cars as well. Along the way one of my exhaust manifold gaskets developed a leak, making for a noisy motor, and Joe's ignition timing's advance had to be re-set on the fly, but we both know our cars and had no real problems.
Jay,
I remember you and Joe at DesMoines. I owned the champagne colored 41 60 Special, and was positioned in the same row of Cadillac's with you and Joe. My classic received a 98 point Senior Award. I loved your 49, as my father bought one exactly like yours new; I was a little kid, but it was my first love of Cadillac's.
Bill Podany
Knoxville, TN
Bill,
My car thanks you for the compliment. I remember your car as well, as someone here in GA had a similar one at the time which jogs my memory. I think Cadillacs of all ages are meant to be driven and, because of their quality, if kept in shape shouldn't give too many problems an owner can't handle on the road.
BTW: Joe is still around here in Atlanta, though he doesn't get out as much as he used to.
Driving my what I would consider road worthy 1970 Cadillac today (nice and sunny) on routine errands and my power brakes went out half way through the trip. The vacuum gauge on my car never reduced much less than 21 inches (have a gauge) during braking so does not seem like it could be a vacuum leak or ruptured diaphragm in booster. Hoping it is a collapsed vacuum line. Leaving for out of town tomorrow and did not have time to deal with it. Just wanted to drive my car once a week to keep it good this time of year. Point is thought it was good to go-roadworthy and all. Got a good leg-press workout stopping the car on the way home. If this thread is still going when I get to it, will post an update.
Scot, Sorry to hear of Your brake problem. Jay I live in Gainesville Ga. If it gets to 60F. and sunny the top goes down. I just cannot help it.
Bill Young
My 1968 DVC had been running fine except for a few ongoing nagging issues, none of which made it un-roadworthy.
Then, a few months ago, while on a street with no setbacks, the top down and the radio off (a rare combination of circumstances) we noticed a tick-tick-tick coming from the right side. I thought it was brakes at the rear, shop folks said it was rte front and was wheel bearings. the sound was too tinny to be wheel bearings. A brake inspection yielded rear brakes in fine condition, but a loose wheel cover crest!?!?! That was it.
But while pulling the wheel bearings, we noticed the outer race spinning in the hub. That's not good. And it doesn't get better on its own.
We put it back together, and I drove it 650+ miles that weekend with no issues., But I also ordered 2 new 1968 Cadillac disc rotors with integrated hubs. These are Hard to find and are Costly.
That's when I discovered, the hard way, that the front disk brake setup was from a 1969-70 Olds 88 - 98. Oh yeah. It fits, used the same ball joints and tie rod ends, but the rotor / hub (2 piece) registration was quite a bit different. The inner bearing part of the Olds hub actually sticks out about 1/4 inch from the inner rotor surface, while Cadillac rotors from the same period have the inner bearing about 1/4 inside the rotor surface.
So, about $3,000 later in parts & labor, I have proper Cadillac front steering / suspension / brakes on my car. My original Cadillac steering arms and knuckles had long ago disappeared.
I now have an Olds 1969-70 88 or 98 front disc brake set (with worn hubs, but good rotors), that I have to try and sell.
It would have cost about half that if I went full 1968-69 steering parts, but the 1970 steering knuckle is a superior item, combining the Steering Knuckle, Steering Arm and Caliper mounting bracket all in one piece. That required taking out the existing lower ball joints and outer tie-rod ends and putting in 1970 parts. I also needed to get the 1970 & later Camber eccentrics because they are shaped slightly differently from the 1969 & earlier ones.
I decided to use the 1972 & later rotors. All I had to do was ground the lip off the inner part of the dust shield so it wouldn't hit the inner part of the hub. There were no Steering Arm bolts to reverse, because it's a one piece Knuckle.
So now I just need to get 1970 outer tie rods & lower ball joints if I ever need to replace them, and the 1972 -76 rotors are less than 1/2 the cost of the 1968-71 rotors.
While we were at it, we changed the gearbox (been waiting to do this) and the rag joint (broken in 3 places) so now steering effort is much better.
I didn't need that expense right before Christmas though...
I still have to change the TH400's vacuum modulator, the compressor's front shaft seal, the power steering pressure line (all 3 leaking a bit), and give another thorough check of all the chassis grounds because restarting after a hot soak still causes the starter to boga bit before cranking over. Once it starts to crank, it cranks faster than a group of arabs running away from an Israeli armoured brigade, but there is that persistent bog...
Mike,
That power steering hose is right next to the exhaust manifold. By 1974 (just replaced one on that year) the power steering pressure line is under the frame and away from exhaust manifold - superior design (might have started this in 71-not sure). Anyway a leak is a likely fire, so highly advise that you replace them. You replaced the steering gear so they should be easy to replace. Even if you did not I have replaced them on many 67, 68, 70 Caddy's and never had any trouble loosening the factory tightened compression nut on power steering line that threads into gear.
Hey Y'all,
Sorry to get into this thread so late, but life intruded.
When is a car "roadworthy" and "Dependable"? Well, let me give you my two cents, and maybe that is worth a shilling or a hundred rubles in today's economy. I have crawled and rebuilt my 1957 Sedan De Ville from stem to stern. But even before that, I took a good percentage of Auburn University's History department from Opelika (near Auburn) to Amelia Island, FL for this last year's Concours d'Elegance. Roadworthy? Dependable? You bet. Why? Well here's why: I had the manual for the car before I got it (last January), and I had plenty of tools (and know how to use them) and a cell phone. Are the wheels attached to the car and does it stop when brakes are applied? Does the steering work? Then it is road worthy. Do you trust your own mechanical skills? Can you do what is a little above and beyond the call of duty to make it run? The dependability is on the owner. Me, I'll take my car from any point on the East coast of the USA to the West Coast (including Alaska) with no fear. And if she breaks down along the way I will either be able to fix her or I will not. But I will have some good stories. And I will get her back home and fix up whatever is wrong.
Just remember the old adage: Ships are safe in the harbor, but that is not what ships are made for.
Drive the living heck out of your car, and take risks, and avoid being that cringing person who is more worried about a breakdown than having an ADVENTURE. Me, I have a driver, and that is what I do, Mon Frer, I DRIVE.
Best Regards and WORRY LESS AND DRIVE MORE.
Dave Burke
CLC# 27968 (or some such)
I've owned several 1968 DeVille convertibles and I found the warm engine starting problem was that all that juice was trying to go thru the neutral safety switch contacts. When after I was unable to obtain a reliable neutral safety switch I wired around the switch I never had the problem again of the engine sluggishly turning over when trying to start hot. Thru the switch the engine cranked like a six volt system. Without the switch never any problem. I just had to realize with no switch, no back up lights and the engine would now start while in gear.
Quote from: Bill Young on December 27, 2014, 12:23:31 AM
I've owned several 1968 DeVille convertibles and I found the warm engine starting problem was that all that juice was trying to go thru the neutral safety switch contacts. When after I was unable to obtain a reliable neutral safety switch I wired around the switch I never had the problem again of the engine sluggishly turning over when trying to start hot. Thru the switch the engine cranked like a six volt system. Without the switch never any problem. I just had to realize with no switch, no back up lights and the engine would now start while in gear.
I don't understand. The neutral switch only affects the starter SOLENOID; once it pulls in, the
motor circuit is the same. Bruce Roe
Mike,
That slow starter when hot has never happened to me yet, but my friends it has and they asked to replace the starter. I did and it cured the problem, but it could have been loose connections. When replacing a starter I always clean-up/tighten battery ground, frame ground at starter, clean battery terminals and etc to make sure there are no issues.
After reading your brake explanation on the 68 and 69 Cadillacs, although I like the exterior looks and dash better on a 68 than a 70 Cadillac, guess when it comes to brakes glad I have the simplicity of a 1970.
Bill,
"Without the switch never any problem. I just had to realize with no switch, no back up lights and the engine would now start while in gear."
There are two circuits in the switch. One for the back up lights and one completely independent that completes the starter solenoid circuit. Just cross ing the purple wires at the switch will eliminate neutral safety feature. I too can't see how wiring around the switch would help with a hot engine. If the circuit is completed AT ALL, it will be completed at all times.
Greg Surfas
Quote from: Dave Burke on December 26, 2014, 11:41:59 PM
Drive the living heck out of your car, and take risks, and avoid being that cringing person who is more worried about a breakdown than having an ADVENTURE.
Personally I know a few original Classic cars that don't get driven besides around the town because of that very thing.
-Gavin
Quote from: Coupe Deville on December 27, 2014, 12:45:18 PM
Personally I know a few original Classic cars that don't get driven besides around the town because of that very thing.
-Gavin
I drive my original 1958 around town, out of town and all over and on it's last run I opened it up at 55 and it was doing over 90 in a few seconds! Had to hit the brakes to bring it back to the speed limit. I drive this car like any of my others and have no fears whatsoever!
A simple answer (IMHO) to "making" a car dependable is knowledge, understanding and confidence.
1.Knowledge of ALL the mechanical and electrical systems of your car, how they function and how they (might) fail.
2.Understanding of all the idiosyncrasies of your car and its systems, and what to expect from them. This will dictate how fast you take curves, how far you follow behind in traffic, and what you might expect of gas, oil and consumables (belts and hoses, etc.).
3. Confidence in your mechanical ability if you do your own work, or the skill and dependability of the people you have working on your car.
Whining about either poor quality parts or service agencies has no place in our hobby. If we don't seek out quality we won't get it. Many, many, many of us have learned to be our own mechanics and diagnosticians because we can't find them in the mainstream, or do not want to pay what a qualified technician (read that Magician of antiquity) is entitled to charge because of his (or her) level of skill and experience.
The short version is If you are not going to learn and devote sufficient resources to this hobby and your car. buy a "trailer queen" and tow it with a new truck.
Greg Surfas
Greg,
Sorry that whining about poor replacement part quality and inadequate service agencies bugs you. Just trying to warn people that just because a part is new or work was performed by others does not mean it will be good, as you would expect. You helped me with that starter in GN 2013, and it took three replacement starters to get one that would turn over the engine every time the ignition key was turned. Have taken to repairing my own car out of necessity for work I can trust was not short-cut or cheap parts used. I'm not whining cause it is sad, just warning people. Have been burned and don't want m friends to suffer same fate.
I have to agree with Greg 100%. The more you can do, and the more you know about your car, the better off your going to be.
I don't think he is saying you need to be a mechanic to own an old car. He is stating you should know your car to the best of your ability.
I for one went through my car from the front to the back when I bought it, and would drive it anywhere.
I carry extra parts that could be a problem, and the tools to repair it along side the road , if possible.
Lord knows I know people that don't know a front bumper from the back, but they have fun coming to shows. They don't go very far from home, but they have fun around town.
Every Tuesday night we all get together at our local Hardee's. I hear cars coming in there that run super, and then there are some that limp in to the show.
Bottom line is ; they all have fun getting together .
Roy
Yes, I guess we all know what makes a car reliable. Certainly the more you know about your car, the more mechanically inclined you are and the more mechanical experience you have is a benefit. The hobby has room for everyone, and if we only invited the members with reliable cars to GN, it would be far less attended. I only got into this hobby in 2005 because I wanted a luxury 5 seat RWD American V-8 convertible, so had to go back to 1970 to get that. Now I will never go back. I lack experience, but it is improving every day.
I think the best answer is have your car so that keys can be handed over to your wife and daughters, and if they can enjoy a 100 mile trouble free trip without you, it is good to go. My Grandmother drove new Cadillac starting in 1961 for three decades buying a new one every three years or so with no troubles. Hopefully we can have our cars that way too.
Dropping out for now-enjoy your Cadillacs and Happy New Year!
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on December 28, 2014, 12:26:56 AM
Sorry that whining about poor replacement part quality....snip
I agree about the quality of the parts that are available these days. Bought a Delco rebuilt starter (best one/most expensive I could find), it was defective and nearly caught my car on fire last year. The strap that comes thru the starter body and connects to the solenoid was not centered. It was touching ground and when I went to start it, it caught on fire. Luckily, I was outside the car, quickly pulled the battery cable and put the fire out with an old towel.
Most things these days are built oversees and quality is suspect. That's just the way it is and we have to deal with it. Many good brands that I used to sell (when I worked at an independently owned auto parts store) back in the '80s are no longer considered good quality (wheel bearings, for instance).
Would you rather have a "GM" provided part or an aftermarket reproduction? I know which one I would pick but again, these days we usually only have choice "B".
Scot has a valid point.
chris.
I guess my point is to go out and enjoy the car.
Carry a tool box, or a credit card. Both will get you where you want to go.
Roy
Correct, no guarantees on anything. My wife has a 13 Murano with 15K miles on it..... It's been towed twice.
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on December 26, 2014, 10:51:15 PM
Mike,
That power steering hose is right next to the exhaust manifold. By 1974 (just replaced one on that year) the power steering pressure line is under the frame and away from exhaust manifold - superior design (might have started this in 71-not sure). Anyway a leak is a likely fire, so highly advise that you replace them. You replaced the steering gear so they should be easy to replace. Even if you did not I have replaced them on many 67, 68, 70 Caddy's and never had any trouble loosening the factory tightened compression nut on power steering line that threads into gear.
Scot,
My pressure line is braided with stainless so it will only leak at the joint; no fire hazard. I had a pressure line burst right where the the exhaust manifold is back in 2000. And it did start a fire. I was parking in a tight spot at a car cruise. There were 3 or 4 people on my car with fire extinguishers before I could even get mint out!
After that I got that line braided and a replacement line braided. Time for the replacement (braided) to go in and this line's original fittings to get a new braided line section again.
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on December 27, 2014, 11:43:54 AM
Mike,
That slow starter when hot has never happened to me yet, but my friends it has and they asked to replace the starter. I did and it cured the problem, but it could have been loose connections. When replacing a starter I always clean-up/tighten battery ground, frame ground at starter, clean battery terminals and etc to make sure there are no issues.
After reading your brake explanation on the 68 and 69 Cadillacs, although I like the exterior looks and dash better on a 68 than a 70 Cadillac, guess when it comes to brakes glad I have the simplicity of a 1970.
Scot,
The starter was recently rebuilt and re-installed. Its the original starter that's been rebuilt twice now. I'm convinced its the grounding straps, because when it's cold or warm, it cranks over very fast. Only when its HOT like shortly after a long or high speed run, will it give trouble.
Like what it did Sat morning. It scared me into thinking the battery was gone because it would not crank over fast enough to start at all. However a couple hours later it started just fine.
Quote from: Dave Burke on December 26, 2014, 11:41:59 PM
...Just remember the old adage: Ships are safe in the harbor, but that is not what ships are made for....
Dave Burke
CLC# 27968 (or some such)
Ummm, for some reason Taranto, & Pearl Harbor come to mind.