Read the descripion more carefully before all but knocking this seller. From what I gather, the seller says in the ad, hes not trying to pass of the engine as a 462, but says the following, ...
"The engine is believed to be a 429 V8, however, the air cleaner reads 472 Cadillac which is a newer engine size. As far as the owner knows the engine has never been rebuilt just well maintained over the years, it currently runs and drives strong."
He then goes on and mentions the 429 again and then the condition of the car.
Whatever anyone is finding out about the engine and/or figuring out about it from the pictures and/or reading into and so on about his description from above and further on and saying the guy is trying to pass of a 472 is wrong from what I can see.
I think think the guy is trying to be as honost as possible here and does and even points out the descrepency here about the 429/472 himself almost right off!
No, Im not an expert at Cadillacs and only one myself, but so far from the ad, I see the bidding as pretty reasonable for most any car of that condition and age, especially for an older on of such significance as the first year of a front wheel drive Eldo. O.K., so I personally dont four drum breaks, the expensive bearing jobs, and the special perforated leather, but thats another story for those striving for perfection and/or preserving one of Cadillacs gems in production history and I certainly hope that someone with an interest and wallet can do so for future generations to enjoy just like all the other Cadillacs we all have in our club right now and on into the future.
Dave
What is the problem with the 67 FWD bearings?
I dont know. Personally, I think $3500 is already pricey for this car. 130k miles, engine is replace with different CID engine. Someone could be buying a headache...not to mention the rust.
I am basing this on trying to sell my 43,000 mile original 68 CDV for nearly a year. Now, though this was not a perfect museum piece, it was rust free, cold AC, nice white leather with no tears or rips, shiney orginal paint, etc.
It finally sold this past May for $4500. People liked at the cruise nights and car shows...but most people seem to want a A-body sized car. "Its too big." And basically, it was (obviously) not a Chevy.
If this guy can get over $3500 for this 67 Eldo, he should feel very very lucky.
But then again, most people would rather spend $1500-$3500 on a borderline basket case than $5000-$8000 on a nice car...thinking they can do the work or repairs and just getting upside down in a car.
Pesonally, my ceiling for this 67 would have been about $1500.
JMO.
David
Im curious as to why there is a small window crank (like a vent window crank) on the rear drivers side panel showing in three of the pictures? Werent the small, back side windows power operated?
Power windows were optional on the 67 Eldorado, seems kind of tacky.
Thanks, Dick, for the reply, but Im still confused ..... this car has power front windows ........ how could the back windows be manual? Please dont tell me that a Cadillac Eldorado for 1967 came with standard power windows in the front with manuals in the back unless ordered otherwise.
Jack.
I bought a very straight 67 with the 429 blown. 83K original, -I found a rusty 70 with a couple thou. less miles. I replaced the brakes completely -freshened the engine [timing set -gaskets -pumps ect] new tires repaired inoperable electric windows/other small things resealed the 70 trans -new shocks front and rear [all 4 of the rears]. The list goes on. I spent $1500 buying the car and with everything all totaled when done I had $4500 -$4800 in it. The only labor I paid for was tire work and a front end alignment. I simply acumulated to many toys/projects and now Im cornered. So Ive tried a little to sell one or two. Nuetral parties have told me the 67 is a $5000 car. ?? Ive asked $4500 and have dropped to $3500. At one point I told a guy over the phone, when I knew he wanted it, Id take $3200, -he almost bought it, but said he also had storage woes so its still here. I need elbow room not the cash. Ive driven it about 2500 miles, -its wonderfull to drive and people stare/ask questions -I feel miserable about selling it when I drive it. Its as slick as the Ebay 67/I think my interior is nicer. Noone grabs it?? Some guys that deal in old cars ask me why I cant get $3500 out of it, -they ask "Whats Wrong"? I suppose Im a lousy salesman. Ive seen people pay big $$ on Ebay for trim that looks pitifull compared to whats on this car. No offense to 429 fans but I think I did the car a favor changing it to the 472/500 family. Some teen agers have admired it and say they want ot try and gather the $$, -then comes the question, -"What kind of Gas Mileage does it get"? I think it messes with there head when I say I dont know, -I never cared about it. I emailed that guy with the Ebay 67 and told him what engine he had, -at least it certainly isnt a 429. He added to the description that he had found it was in fact a 472, -he could have done better modifing the auction though. Happy New Year!
Hadnt heard of power windows being optional?? All 67-70 Eldos Ive looked at were power. In fact I dont recall seeing a manual windowed Cadillac. I know of course they existed in or before the fiftys.
Quote from: Jack McClow CLC #15840Thanks, Dick, for the reply, but Im still confused ..... this car has power front windows ........ how could the back windows be manual? Please dont tell me that a Cadillac Eldorado for 1967 came with standard power windows in the front with manuals in the back unless ordered otherwise.
Jack.
I seem to remember that since the rear windows went into the side roof panels instead of down into the body, it had to be manually done.
Quote from: Steve BHadnt heard of power windows being optional?? All 67-70 Eldos Ive looked at were power. In fact I dont recall seeing a manual windowed Cadillac. I know of course they existed in or before the fiftys.
Strange as it might seem, I dont believe power windows became standard until sometime in the late 60s or early 70s. In 67 manual windows were standard on the Calais series, power windows were standard on the rest of the line.
Thanks to a 37 year-old brochure, I have an answer to the power windows/power vent windows question. I have a 68 brochure (the one my parents got when they bought a new SDV that year)and in the Calais section it says, "Both Calais models for 1968 NOW (my emphasis) include, as standard equipment, power windows",so as late as 67 you could buy a Cadillac with manual windows. In the Fleetwood Eldorado section, it says "the power control panel on each door, above, controls both the side and rear quarter windows" (just a regular four-window control on the vertical panel). In the optional equipment section, no. 7 says "power vent windows can be operated from a convenient control panel. Front and rear, standard on the Fleetwood Sixty Special and Brougham, rear quarter on Eldorado and front on Seventy-Five sedan". Since they were standard in 68 and the ad shows pictures of manual rear cranks in 67, apparently 68 was the first year they were standard. I was also surprised to discover that the seat bolsters in cloth-upholstered FLEETWOOD Eldorados were vinyl, not leather. Someone commented on front-only power windows. They were pretty common in the early 50s (I have an ad for the 51 Chrysler Imperial convertible and it clearly shows power window controls on the drivers door and a crank in the rear). This was really inconvenient in convertibles and very strangely is still the way Chrysler/Dodge Neons come.The downsized GM intermediates introduced for 78 had no way at all to lower the rear windows on sedans and this continued for several more years. The middle of the door had an upholstered inset where the window mechanism would have been. GM touted this as increasing rear-seat shoulder room, but it was clearly just a way for them to save money. The rear-quarter vent panes were able to be opened, either manually or electrically on power-window cars. My aunt and uncle bought a loaded 80 Cutlass Brougham sedan and when they got home with it, they called their salesman to find out how to lower the rear windows and were told they couldnt.
They were optional on 67 Eldorado. I believe all the other Cadillac models save for Calais, all had manual front vents with power vents being were optional.
Steve - is your 67 a Eldo or CDV? Thanks Doug
Quote from: Dick HellerThey were optional on 67 Eldorado. I believe all the other Cadillac models save for Calais, all had manual front vents with power vents being were optional.
The 67 Eldorado did not have front vent windows.
"Eldorado"
Agree
Quote from: JohnnyQuote from: Dick HellerThey were optional on 67 Eldorado. I believe all the other Cadillac models save for Calais, all had manual front vents with power vents being were optional.
The 67 Eldorado did not have front vent windows.
Clearly this tradition continued at GM. My 87 Chevy Eurosport VR, 89 Buick LeSabre Coupe and my 92 Eldorado had/have rear 1/4 windows that dont move by design.
Am I imagining things, or:
Have the plastic parts just been dyed? With a spray can?
Has it been painted without any sanding or prep work?
Is the paint thin and fisheyed near the edge of the rear fender, like there was some grease or something on it that kept it from sticking?
Is the paint orange peeled on the trunk?
Is rust forming around every orifice?
Looking under the hood, does it look like it has 30k original miles?
It would be worth more to me without the paint job, so I could see what was underneath that paint. I am very suspicious of a car that has had a cruddy paint job done right before putting it up for sale.
-densie
That little surface rust they see in the dash closeup, -"Humidity" and 37-38 years.
The "Optional Equipment for 1967" information reprinted in Roy Schneiders "Cadillacs of the Sixties" mentions rear power "vent" windows as an Eldorado option. Seems like many buyers of that era skipped the power vent window option; I guess this applied to Eldo. buyers too.
Dave Greenburg
It would seem that the rear 1/4 windows on the Eldorado were considered "Ventilator" windows, and not a regular window. The 67 brochure states that all window regulators, save for the Calais, are power operated. Power ventilator windows were standard on the Fleetwood Sixty Special and Brougham. It does not state weather or not power ventilator windows were available on the Eldorado.
I have seen the occasional 67-70 Eldorado where these windows were not power operated. I seem to remember hearing somewhere along the line where the power regulators could not be incorporated into the rear mechanisms on the 67 models. Not sure how true this is. But in any event, power rear ventilator windows were standard by 1970. I have the 69 and 70 brochures, in which the 69 does not list standard equipment, and the optional equipment list is somewhat abbreviated. So, I am unsure as to when they became standard, 68, 69 or 70.
Mike
I noticed those things too. The paint certainly has its share of blemishes if you look closely. The trunk lid looks to be a mess.
The hard interior parts look painted. The paint is actually beginning to wear off the steering wheel spokes (are they not supposed to be black anyway?). The rest of the parts look too glossy to be original.
The rust in the instrument cluster suggests the car has spent considerable time outside with a leak of some sort into the interior. The painted interior parts may be an attempt to cover up moisture damage. The seats are in relatively poor condition as well.
The engine compartment is a mess. No attempt to clean things up. I would think that the engine would have been detailed before it was installed into the car. That is the best time to do it. Also perhaps clean up the rest of the engine compartment before the engine was installed.
I really doubt this is a 30,000 mile car. Just too many strikes against it. The engine, the interior, the shabby paint. Just not the sort of things you would expect to see on such a car.
Mike
1967 CADILLAC ELDORADO
CONVENIENCE OPTIONS
"Rear quarter power ventipanes ($63)"
1968 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD ELDORADO SUB-SERIES 693
"Regular equipment on the luxury sports type car included all Fleetwood standards plus power rear quarter ventipanes.."
Looks like 1967 was a one-off year for optional power rear quarter ventipanes according to the literature.
This message post and threads is a prime example of why a person should join the CLC. From a simple initial post alerting people to a car for sale on ebay, look at all the information that became available to the public concering this car. The information would be priceless to someone that is less then knowledgable about "Classic Cadillacs". They could easily think they would be getting a great collectable at a steal.
By the way, how much to replace the cracked windshield??????
[For Sale- the ultra classic 1967 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado 2 Door Hardtop. The car that Robert Dinero drove in the hit Movie Casino]
Its been awhile since I saw the film, but did Robert Dinero drive a 67 Eldo in "Casino". I remember the late 70s and early 80s Eldos, but not a 67. By the way it was reassuring to find out about the extra plate under the drivers seat, that prevents the driver to be blown up, if his car is fire bombed LOL.
Reagarding the windshield:
[There is also a crack in the windshield about 8" long on the passenger side.]
Thanks to everybody who responded to my question regarding the manual rear windows on the 67 Eldo ......... I am facinated by details like this ........ especially facinated that both a manufacturer and a purchaser of a car such as this would cheap out in such an obvious area ....... what must the rear seat passengers have thought of this luxury car when they settled in only to find a window crank meeting their eye?
It appears as though GM finally figured out the obvious within a year, but I would be interested to know what the logic was behind the original decision to make those small rear windows manual on an otherwise technologically advanced automobile. Its not as though they didnt know how to make the windows power operated ...... they apparently just chose to try to squeeze out an extra $63.00 on an already very expensive car. If I had been at GM at the time I would have had a fit if Id been forced to accept such a management decision.
Jack.
Thats a very good point ....... seems to me he was driving one of the Eldos from the 79 through 84 period ....... Im sure he was.
I agree. It fascinates me that someone (including dealers) would order a car with tilt wheel and twilight sentinel and not spring for rear power windows.
[especially facinated that both a manufacturer and a purchaser of a car such as this would cheap out in such an obvious area]
They sort of did the same thing again with the 81 models, with the introduction of the V 8-6-4 engine. For the sake of a couple of hundred dollars, GM opted to produce this disasterous engine. They could have kept the existing powerplants, but CAFE rules would have placed a surcharge of a couple of hundred dollars on each engine, so GM took the cheap way out! Of course in the long run, it wasnt the cheap way.
I had wondered how many cars were equipped with power vent windows (when they were optional)and had assumed they were not that popular. My parents 68 SDV was bought from dealer stock and although it was well-equipped (vinyl roof, leather interior, AM-FM Stereo, tilt/telescope wheel, Automatic Comfort Control, Guide-Matic headlights, disc brakes, six way seat,power doors locks,tinted glass, WSW tires, trumpet horns,door edge guards)it did not have power vent windows, cruise control, Twilight Sentinel, or Controlled Differential. I was amused at Cadillacs description of the optional disc brakes that year: "Disc brakes are offered as an extra-charge option on front wheels for those drivers who prefer them". I guess those drivers who prefer them were only those who wanted to stop quickly and with less fade.
I didnt see the movie, but the 79-85 Eldorados had styling very similar to the original 67s and, in fact, several ads for the later ones had pictures of both. I think the 79-85s are some of the best-looking modern Cadillacs as were the original FWD Eldos (then came the 86s...UGH!). Back to the rear vent windows,when the 79s came out, they couldnt be opened manually or electrically.
Joe Pesci is driving Dinero in a 67/68 Eldorado dropping him off at the Casino.
Quote from: JohnnyIts been awhile since I saw the film, but did Robert Dinero drive a 67 Eldo in "Casino". I remember the late 70s and early 80s Eldos, but not a 67. By the way it was reassuring to find out about the extra plate under the drivers seat, that prevents the driver to be blown up, if his car is fire bombed LOL.
Reagarding the windshield:
[There is also a crack in the windshield about 8" long on the passenger side.
[Joe Pesci is driving Dinero in a 67/68 Eldorado dropping him off at the Casino.]
Thanks for the info....
Quote from: Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397I didnt see the movie, but the 79-85 Eldorados had styling very similar to the original 67s and, in fact, several ads for the later ones had pictures of both. I think the 79-85s are some of the best-looking modern Cadillacs as were the original FWD Eldos (then came the 86s...UGH!). Back to the rear vent windows,when the 79s came out, they couldnt be opened manually or electrically.
While most Eldorados from 67-85, had more or less the same lines distinguished by the long hood, and short trunk lid, I think what set off the 79s to 85s, was the rear window treatment. Up until that time, the rear window had a forward slant. The 79s introduced the more formal flat perpendicular rear window, which is reminded me of some of the older "town cars" I agree the Eldos and Sevilles of the early 80s were the best looking Cadillacs of modern times.
It is a little bit shabby. But its right up a Greenwhich Village/Williamsburg artists alley. Guys like that drive these cars on the street and do not want one that is in mint condition.
Regarding the rust in the dash face.
Not necessarily from being outdoor with a leak, or
subjected to high humidity.
I read that this problem is somewhat unique to 67s.
My 67 SDV has the same problem on the dash, but no evidence
anywhere else of excess humidity or poor storage conditions.
Regards, Hank
If it was designed for A/C, then why is that you cant get to the mixture screws or the distributor hold-down, because the freaking compressor is in the way?
-densie
Dick,
Nothing wrong with the front wheel bearings on a 67 Eldo, except for the cost.
They used them on 66-68 Toronado and 67-68 Eldo only. They are very expensive, around $330 EACH. The later 69 - 78 type bearings are much less expensive.
When one of my front wheel bearings went I swapped in a spindle from a 68 Toronado. Identical. Still running.
Cheers,
Alex
CLC #14132
68 Eldorado
Wrong. Power windows were standard on Eldorados . The rear quarter windows which retract reward were considered to be vent windows power was optional for these only for 1967.