COLD START PROBLEMS 1978 Caddy

[R Schroeder]

I don't have the fuel pump off yet. I had to take the new one back. Will pull the pump when I get another.
As I stated before the gas is gone out of the line and the fuel filter holder within minutes of shutting the car off, if I remove the gas line. So, doing any sort of vac on it, wont work.
It may take longer if left on. Like over night. This happens weather the car is hot or cold. I can start it , for 2 minutes ,  and then shut it off, and the next day it will be down.
It only bleeds down as far as the fill on the needle valve. The rest of the gas is still in there. Needle valve is brand new.
I just cant believe that fuel evaporates that fast in an enclosed carb.

[R Schroeder]

Picked up my second fuel pump today. Will be putting it in tomorrow. We will see what that does.

[R Schroeder]

Fuel pump is in. Not a fun job. Very tight place to work.
I re-checked the fuel filter to see if it was seating. There is a raised ring at the bottom of the holder, and it did leave an impression on the end of the filter. I would assume it was sealing , but it still drained out the other day.

Will check tomorrow how everything worked out.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Roy,
Next time you change a fuel pump try pulling the Power steering pump out of the was first (unbolting it from the block/head).  It makes the juob much easier.
Greg

[R Schroeder]

Greg, I thought about that, but decided to do it the hard way.............ha
A little tight ,but I got it.
I hope there isn't a next time.

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If your a stubborn old coot like me this is what the back of your left arm will look like when you cram it under the power steering belt. You have to go in and up to get the top bolt in the pump. This isn't good for your arm...........ha
Do it the way Greg said.
Roy

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Ah ha, I have many of these pictures of self-harm.

Bruce.

[R Schroeder]

I'll bet you do Bruce. Anyone who works on cars will look like this every now and then. More so if you want to do it the hard way.

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Checked the float this morning , and it was down. Still pumps gas though. 3 to 4 pumps.
Fuel line was empty.
Only thing left is to try anther check valve filter. Maybe this one is made in China.

Would like to hear from other 78 Caddy owners about theres too.
Roy

[TJ Hopland]

I sold my 78 a few years ago but did use it as a semi daily driver for at least one winter with the carb on it and never had that trouble.  It would always start right up.   

[R Schroeder]

T.J. - Was it a Coupe DeVille or an Eldorado ? I know you like Eldo's
Don't know if that would make any difference or not. Just trying to brighten my day................ha

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Did get my NOS vacuum advance today . Will put that in tomorrow.

[TJ Hopland]

The 78 I had was a Deville.   I did have starting and running problems with it a few times but both times it turned out to be the same problem which was the charcoal canister had some sort of internal failure so it was sucking charcoal bits into the carb and those bits were plugging up the jets.   I saw those bits when I first took the carb apart but just figured they were rubber fuel line bits since the fuel lines were dried out and cracked (including the ones back at the tank).   I did not think about it too hard but should have realized that the filter should have caught those if that is what it was.  The second time I just figured I did a poor cleaning job the first time because I did not bother to remove the jets.  It was the 3rd time that I finally figured it out.  It was not a subtle few chunks it looked like someone took a pepper shaker in the float bowl. After that I talked to guys that said it was a common problem back in the day and the cheap solution if you had to meet emissions was to put an inline fuel filter on the canister line to catch the bits.    I just ended up unhooking the line.   Guy I sold the car to (and never finished paying me for it) drove it as a daily driver for another 3 years.   He said it was the best cheap car he ever had.  He even asked if I would sell him the 75 Eldo that was the reason I did not need the 78 anymore.  Told him I would think about if he finished paying me for the 78 since I now have an 80 for a beater.  Guess he has been out of work for a while now and got kicked out of his place so I have not seen him or any money.   Heard instead of getting $400-500 for scrapping the car the city towed it and sent him a bill.       

[R Schroeder]

I remember the story now. I dont have any problem like that.
Guess I'll just keep on trying different things until I find the answer.
Going to try and get some AC filters instead of the parts store filter. Maybe that will do something.

[R Schroeder]

I didn't change the fuel filter. Car has been starting pretty good the last few mornings. Maybe 3 cranks and its running. Better than it has been.
I did have some problems with the flat spot again and I did find the problem. Seems the vacuum valves in the top of the charcoal canister were not working anymore . I removed all the lines from the unit, and car ran perfectly. Also removed the EGR valve and replaced it with a metal plate.
Have to say, it sure runs a lot better.
I guess thats it for now. Will run it for a while now, and see if anything changes.
Roy

[TJ Hopland]

One of the lines on the canister is the gas tank vent, I believe you can see it connect to a steel line that runs along the frame.  That one needs to remain open so the tank can vent.

On a completely original 'system' from this era removing the EGR tends to make the engine run lean.  Try to listen close for pinging (detonation, knock) under steady cruise states especially on warm days.  Steady cruise was when the EGR was on.  Since you were having problems in the first place that indicates that something in the system has been changed or is no longer working (imagine that in 33 years right?) so chances are you are not running the factory system and tune anyway so we are more or less guessing on the whole setup.   If you do end up with a minor detonation problem I would try to see if giving it a slight more throttle makes it go away.  If it does then I would try and limit the travel of the vacuum advance can rather than just retarding the whole distributor.   

[R Schroeder]

T.J.  - I did leave the gas tank line vent on the canister. Figure it can vent into the charcoal.

I don't have any problems with pinging. Infact the car seems to be much more responsive . Probably due to no vacuum leak.
I do have it all set up as far as the tuning of it, as per the data plate , on the front of the engine cowl.
These are the first items that were removed from the engine. All else is still stock. EGR and the vacuum lines to canister.
I will take note on how it sounds on a warm day. Right now engine idles perfect, and is very quiet , and responds very nice.

[R Schroeder]

We had two very warm and muggy days here ,and I had the car out on both days. Preformed very well.
No pinging ,or any other problems.
I also recharged the air conditioner yesterday. Didn't know if anyone had done anything to it, over the last 33 years , so it got new freon, at the correct amount.
Roy

[R Schroeder]

I guess this will be my final posting .
Car has been starting every morning real well. I dont know if the fuel filter is finally working , with the check valve holding the gas in, or if removing the line to the top of the carb had anything to do with it. This is the line that went to the charcoal canister. It is suppose to remove fumes from the carb, once it is shut down.
At any rate , it is running super nice.
Thanks to all who helped .
Now I can get on with detailing the engine again.
Roy

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Roy,

I hope you were meaning that this would be your last posting on this problem, and not your last posting ever.

Glad to hear that all is well, and life can go on into getting down and dirty again.

Bruce.

[R Schroeder]

That did sound like the end ,didnt it.
No, I meant this problem...........ha
I will be here for some time, if I can help, and if I need help.
Roy