Freeing up the 331

[62 driver]

Dan sounds like your making progress! Keep up the work. Please let it set for a few days more before pushing the luck.

[SixDucks]

Hello Dan,
Any luck yet?

[Dan LeBlanc]

Haven't even been near the garage in a week.

[Smedly]

The suspense is killing me .  I know you cant rush this kind of thing. Good luck

[Dan LeBlanc]

Well. I know it's been awhile.

Mike Cascio and Art Archambeault were here last week. In true Cadillac Craftsman firm,  Mike dove in and dropped the oil pan. What we discovered surprised all of us - a clean engine. Minimal sludge in the bottom of the pan.

Art had the idea to put a jack on one of the crank counterweights and apply some slight force and let it sit. Well, as the photo indicates we have some movement. Still stiff of course, but it's movement nonetheless.

I sent a pic to Mike tonight and he confirms that we have had movement (I was trying to stay clean for the wedding and was not underneath).  The counterweight the jack was on was below a main bearing cap and now it is even.

Patience, more soaking, and pressure and I may get lucky.

[Bobby B]

Dan,
Looks like it's coming along….Are those upside down machine thread stamped nuts on top of the nuts on the end of the rod bolts?  Been in a lot of engines, never seen that before.
                                                                                                                                                                         Bobby

[Dan LeBlanc]

Good eye Bobby. Yes they are.

[Bobby B]

Seen cotter pins used  on some early cars and aircraft engines, but never upside-down stamped nuts. Very Interesting…………
                                                                                                                                                    Bobby

[Dan LeBlanc]

I have done two 390's to date and they were not present on the 390.  Interestingly enough, the regular nuts on the cap are the same as the 390, but these stamped nuts are a new one on me also.

[CEC #20099]

Dan: Looking at the inside of that engene, I see rust & water damage. Is this a `Flood` car engine ??
I suspect your TIMING CHAIN is heavily rusted & locking up the engine. I would suggest a complete teardown, before any more damage is done.
c chleboun #20099

[Jay Friedman]

I think c chleboun is on to something which made me to have a second look.  It appears that there is corrosion on the cylinder wall below the piston. 

[Dan LeBlanc]

The car was improperly stored for several years (since 1972) indoors.  The rust on the cylinder walls is a very light surface rust, not heavy at all (light as in it would clean off quite easily with something like steel wool if one so dares to put that in an engine).  Looking up at the underside of the cam, all of the lobes appear shiny and bright, as does the timing chain.

[Dan LeBlanc]

After laying underneath the car tonight for awhile I've relegated myself to the fact that the engine is going to come out.

How difficult will it be to remove the transmission from the engine if it doesn't turn?   I know that with a 390 it's essential to get to all the torus to flywheel nuts.

My shop manual is on order but hasn't arrived yet.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Those are called pal nuts or Macnamara nuts. Used as a locking or jamb nut.
Too bad she has to come out. I have been watching this thread and had hoped you wouldn't have to.
Jeff

[76eldo]

Dan,

Take it out as a unit, but remove the bolts on the flywheel you can reach from the bottom.  I am told that you can undo the bell housing bolts and pry them apart enough to get to the top ones.

Brian

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Dan,
I think you're giving up a little too soon.
Bob

[Dan LeBlanc]

As one last resort, I may try the application of a bit of heat while maintaining pressure on the crank.  Now that the pan is dropped, access is easy.  I don't mean burn holes in the pistons kind of heat.  I was really hoping to get it moving under it's own power for now so that I can also assess the condition of the transmission before removal.  The long-term goal is to pull the engine, disassemble, evaluate condition, and determine the correct course of action.

From what I have seen to date internally, I have no reason to discount the car has not turned over in mileage (81436) and was very well maintained.

[76eldo]

Dan,

I did all of the same things on my 60 engine and when I finally pulled the heads I was glad it didn't crank.  From sitting for many years and getting condensation inside the engine it looked horrible.

I found another 60 Seville engine and trans and that's going in my car soon.  I'll keep the original engine in cast I ever sell the car, but for now I'll have it up and running with a 28,000 mile engine and trans that I already heard run.

You will probably get away with just taking it apart and installing new rings and bearings which shouldn't be too bad.

Brian

[Scot Minesinger]

Brian has a good point.  To maybe determine cylinder wall condition between head and top of piston, you can use a snake camera and go in spark plug hole.  Probably is best to pull engine as you plan and go the full monte;  re-build and all.

[Dan LeBlanc]

Thankfully, these engines aren't overly difficult to work on and a ring and bearing job is fairly easy to do.  Good chance to get rid of the rope rear main seal at the same time. 

The nice part is I have access to a shop that does a lot of marine engine work on their own stuff and can get machining done at little to no cost