1950s Cracked Kelsey Hayes turbine wheel

[Gary Evans]

My father and I went for a drive today, and when we returned, noticed what appears to be crack in the outer edge of the rim. It appears to be about 8 inches long and in the first rib on the outer edge where the bead sits. I believe it is much too deep to be just chrome flacking off. My question is can this be welded, or does anyone know if there is a company that can restore it. I'm sure finding a single wheel would be near impossible. Please let me know your thoughts, as my father's birthday is coming up and this would be perfect to get this taken care of for him. Bill Evans

[David King (kz78hy)]

Post a photo, finding a replacement wheel is possible but the  years matter, so what year is the of your car?

[Gary Evans]

My fathers car is a 1957, but he bought the rims used, so it is unknown what year they are from. The first 2 pictures hopefully show the crack. I put marker on both ends of the crack for identification and to see if it is going to spread. The third picture is not the one with a crack but hopefully can help identify the year. Please let me know if more pictures would help. Bill Evans

[Cadman-iac]

If the wheel is made of aluminum, it's possible it can be welded, but I would be very cautious about who does it and how.
If it's magnesium like some wheels were in the 60's and 70's, then no, I don't believe it's possible. Magnesium will burn extremely hot, which is why it's not used anymore.

I've had a couple of aluminum wheels repaired, but they only had a very small problem that did not affect the bead area, they were just a cosmetic issue.

Rick

 Bill, that looks like a really bad crack. It was probably done while a tire was being removed or installed on an old style tire machine.
 To properly repair something like this, the crack must be ground out completely and then welded back up slowly to avoid any warpage in the wheel. If it were mine, I would be looking for another rather than trying to fix that.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I have seen Aluminium wheels with far more damage that that repaired.   It all depends on the cost, and availability of a replacement.

Proper Aluminium welding procedures can do beautiful things in the hands of an experienced welder.

I agree with the Richard that the mounting of the tyre, or possibly the demounting of the previous tyre could have been the start of the crack.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

  I'm not familiar with these wheels, but from what I've read from other members here, as I understand it, there should be a number cast into the back of the wheel that will identify it if it's actually a Cadillac produced wheel.
Those familiar with this type of wheel can probably pin down exactly what it's off of if you can find the number on it.

As to how the damage occurred, from the appearance it doesn't look like any kind of impact damage because it's not deformed in any way. The crack looks like it was from pressure being applied to the lip from a mount or dismount on an older tire machine, like a Coats 20/20 or similar. These work just fine on a steel wheel, but the stress it can put on an aluminum wheel can cause damage.
Aluminum wheels are one reason why the industry developed the newer design machines that grip the wheel around the rim to help reduce the possibility of damage. The old machines used the hole in the center of the wheel to hold it as an arm applied pressure to the tire next to the bead. If it hits the edge of the wheel and the operator does not notice it, that could cause the issue you have now.
I've got an old Coats machine that I use for all my tire needs, but I'm aware of it's limitations and I'd never put an aluminum wheel on it for just this reason.
Since that wheel is going to be hard to find, you may be better off having it repaired. Just be sure that you get a qualified welder for the job.
I would check with your local tire dealers that also sell wheels and ask who does this type of repair in your area. Check with several of them to see if anyone is mentioned more than once.
Also know that it's going to be expensive. The wheel will have to be machined again to make it true, and probably would have to be balanced as well.
Then there's the matter of appearance once it's repaired. Is it chromed, or polished? Just another step necessary to finish it.
Good luck in your search for either someone to fix it or another wheel altogether.

Rick

[Roger Zimmermann]

Most probably the wheel is a 1955 or early 56 when the wheel was really a composite affair: the tire rested on the aluminum part in the front and the rear of the tire was on a steel rim. The later wheel had a complete rim riveted on the aluminum hub.
Sorry if my explanation is hard to understand; my English is limited and I have no picture to explain better.
When I bought my '56 Biarritz, the car had steel wheel; the seller sent me 5 Sabre wheels later; one of those was an early wheel.

[James Landi]

Just adding a data point here, back in the early 70's when my high mileage '56 sdv was my daily driver, BOTH front  steel wheel rims cracked at the same time!  I had not hit anything hard, and was always careful with the car, as I was commuting 90miles a day. The repair shop said, " High mileage metal fatique."  What do you think? James

[David King (kz78hy)]

The 55 & 56 wheels don't fit the 57, so if you have a 57 it has the proper wheels.  One caveat is if spacers are used on 55/56 versions, they can be used on the 57.

The wheels are out there.  I have some Brougham Turbine wheels, but no sabres.  I do have 57/58 Sabre wheel centers.

[Gary Evans]

Gentlemen, thank you for the reply. Am I able to determine the year or design of the rim buy the following numbers: 41098, 666620, AG551, or will the tire need to be removed from the rim? Any idea where I can find one, other than just posting a wanted add? Feel free to message me  with repair recommendations or any leads. Thank you Bill Evans. 

[David King (kz78hy)]

I meant to post this link before, forgot.  The Wheels are out there.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285793054058?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230811123856%26meid%3D87e651be70b1487e8bd067c93d283c81%26pid%3D101770%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D285793054058%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2%26brand%3DKelsey-Hayes&_trksid=p4375194.c101770.m146925&_trkparms=parentrq%3A00e0deb018f0adba492d8d5bfffe88a4%7Cpageci%3A638f34f6-ffe4-11ee-8858-2e707e6d5701%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage

[Lexi]

Gentlemen, thank you for the reply. Am I able to determine the year or design of the rim buy the following numbers: 41098, 666620, AG551, or will the tire need to be removed from the rim? Any idea where I can find one, other than just posting a wanted add? Feel free to message me privately at bevans67@hotmail with repair recommendations or any leads. Thank you Bill Evans. 

Hello Gary. That number 41098 you posted denotes chrome sabres for 1957 - 1958 Cadillac. I would search Ebay or try contacting All Cads or Cadillac Parts & Restoration, among others, to locate a replacement rim. 41098 rims are more difficult to find than the earlier Sabres, and they also have a different backset to fit properly over the front drums. So stick with 41098. Finding a single for sale is doable, but a bigger issue may end up being the finish. A replacement rim's state of chrome appearance may not match what is on the car and stick out like a sore thumb. There are restoration services available but they are costly to do properly. Chances are you could find an entire set for sale at a cost far less than the restoration bill. Then you would be stuck with 4 extra rims, but nice to have extras. Clay/Lexi

Edit: I do have one spare chrome Sabre that I would sell. I will have to check and see what number is on it, and follow up.

[Gary Evans]

Lexi, Please let me know, I am very interested!

[Lexi]

Lexi, Please let me know, I am very interested!

It is still noted in my parts list, but I did not quote the number. Shame on me. So I will have to put eyes on it when at my storage unit. Will try to get there today or tomorrow and follow up on this site. Clay/Lexi

[Gary Evans]

Lexi,

That sounds fantastic! We do not need one that is concourse, it will be on the rear and the car is a driver. Please let us know.

[V63]

If it helps, if memory serves, the older style (1955/56) wheels will fit on the later (57 up) REAR only.
it was the later (57 up) front brake drums that were the fitting issue.

It's hard to tell from a picture, but could the issue be a chrome delaminating
Vs structural?

[Lexi]

Lexi,

That sounds fantastic! We do not need one that is concourse, it will be on the rear and the car is a driver. Please let us know.

Well that is good as it was not show chrome quality, going on memory. Plus someone was careless painting and there was a lot of red overspray on it that would have to be cleaned off. I removed most of it off, but some remains. There was also some pitting but not awful, but far from perfect,  just #3 driver quality. Will check for cracks when I locate it. No wheel disc or emblem plate, just the  sabre rim. If it works for you, $100 USD, plus shipping. Will also have to take to a garage to have the tire removed, so that cost as well. Had used this wheel as a "roller". But let's see what number is on it. See Link's post below as well. Clay/Lexi

[Lexi]

If it helps, if memory serves, the older style (1955/56) wheels will fit on the later (57 up) REAR only.
it was the later (57 up) front brake drums that were the fitting issue.

It's hard to tell from a picture, but could the issue be a chrome delaminating
Vs structural?

Hey V63, to the best of my knowledge you are correct. The '55 and '56 Sabres will fit his '57, but on the rear wheels only unless a spacer is used on the front wheels OR the inside of the Sabre is machined for clearance, (not recommended). I have seen that type of crack on other Sabres and my experience is that it has always been a crack when in that same location. But as you said, tough to say for sure in the photo. But good points. I think it was Rick (Cad-maniac) who mentioned the tire changer machines perhaps doing that back in the day. Again, interesting comments as always from the Cad-Maniac. Clay/Lexi

[Lexi]

I pulled that wheel and it has a different number on it. It is a '56 Kelsey Hayes number. As far as I know it will fit your rear wheels but not the front. I stand to be corrected, but I also think the outer aluminum clad portion is the same patern and style of the '57. Just won't fit your front wheels. If you bought it, keep the one with the crack as a spare in the trunk. If it were me I would first spend some time looking for a replacement with your number. I would prefer to have all the same even if it is just for tire rotation consideration. Does not appear to have any cracks or structural flaws, just oxidation and pitting on the portion of the wheel near the hub. Clay/Lexi

[Gary Evans]

Lexi, let me ponder a bit and see what is available, if anything. It appears through looking at other photos of the 57 rim that the tire attaches to the inner steel rim. Do you and everyone think it would be ok to drive on until another is purchased?