Is it just me or does it seem a little unreasonable to be asking upper tier prices for cars that are missing some or all the bumper filler panels? Some don't mention them at all and others say "you can get the set online for $250". Anyone that has been through this process knows even for a driver quality car by the time you get them sort of fitted and sort of paint matched you are going to have quite a bit invested. If you want show quality its really gonna get expensive.
I would have thought that with so many cars suffering destroyed fillers, someone would have come up with a good replacement.
If I had one of those cars, I would have fabricated my own, using some other material. Even metal ones would work. How many people are going to have their car hit, or hit something else, causing metal ones to damage the fenders?
It was one of the reasons I went for 1972 Eldorado, as I didn't want to have to suffer the problems with these broken/degraded pieces.
Bruce. >:D
It depends on what rest of the car is. If it's a 1980 Fleetwood Brougham Coupe d'Elegance in black w/red leather with 6,700 miles as new in every way except for crumbling/missing fillers, count me in for several times $10,000.
I entirely agree with you TJ. The $250 dollar sets of fiberglass replacements require a good deal of "adjustment" to fit, and then, as you say, getting the paint to match is another challenge. If you can find a body shop willing to do this work, you can be guaranteed that it is NOT cheap. Similar to the "breezy" ads for cars that state "the a/c just needs a shot of freon" for the a/c to work. There's the dreamy internet buyer with visions of a near showroom perfect car, and there's the seller at the other end feeding outright misrepresentations. And then there's the fact that so many of these transactions occur sight unseen. James
I've noticed how the market for the old cars in general lately has shown me ridiculous prices for cars that are both undesirable and are in many ways a project. Nicely "done" cars sell. These wishful fantasies of sellers of needy cars are resulting in a lot of cars "seasoning" on the market.
You have to ask if "all the hard work is done" or "worth $50K when finished" then why not just finish the car and reap the rewards?
When I started restoring my 75' Eldo all of the fender extensions and gas filler were in very poor condition or broken/partially missing and were replaced.
Since my first job when I left school was a panel beater (body repairs) I was able to shape and finish them to make them look and fit great, but it took about 3 hours on each one (not inc. the gas filler one).
As the entire car exterior was being brought down the bare metal and repainted I did not have a problem of trying to match the original paint with the replacement extensions.
We all know how expensive is it to re-paint a "Land Yacht", so some do not have a choice and have them painted "as close as possible", but they are noticeable unless your car has been garaged for ever.
Do what you can and afford and enjoy your car.
Half the time I end up shouting at my phone on ads like this.
If you think it's a $10k car that needs $250 in fillers, then put them on-If someone will pay $10k, they will pay $10,250.
If it needs a shot of freon, then get it charged.
But my favorite is the "Lost title but easy to get another one so sold with a Bill of Sale.
Jeff R
While we're listing those "all too often" misrepresentations and blatant lies, how about the sad, rusted wreck that the sellar notes, as follows: "Was running and driving when parked." Happy day, James
Or like I like to say "ran when parked" translates to I parked it in my side yard and ran as far away as I could. >:D ;D
It seems like sellers have given up the 'you can get a set of fillers for $250' and just ignore that they are missing. What seems to go along with that is not mentioning the headliner either even if its hanging down so far you can't drive the car.
What I'm mostly talking about is say an 82-85 with a 4100. How can you ask $10k+ for these cars with missing fillers and a bad headliner. I'm not talking about a crack or chunk missing out of the gas filler one, I mean whole main fillers missing. Also not just a bubble or two in the headliner, the whole thing hanging loose. And these don't seem to be low mile otherwise mint cars. These tend to be cars that had regular use so they have their share of other scuffs an scratches.
Availability of these cars seems pretty decent at the moment and the pricing seems to be about and even split between pretty reasonable and crazy, not much in the middle. If I had the space I would have quite the fleet. I have been seeing at least one car per week that I pretty much like everything about along with about a dozen that I think maybe for 1/4-1/3 asking price may actually sell.
Overpriced cars in the marketplace is 100% normal. But as we all know, asking is not getting.
I have not looked lately what are the options and costs for a late 70's early 80's headliner? I would hope cheaper than a filler job I assume they are not cheap if you can even get em for most of our cars.
Last headliner I had done was on a 1990 Brougham last year. $225 including the sail panels.
I just bought a pair of fillers (end sections only) for a 77-79 from Caddy King on eBay for $211.00 w/shipping. Painting will probably run another $300 - $350 w/o installation. Cadillac fillers for most years are readily available. The cost of fillers themselves is the least of worries. It's getting them to fit on the car is what can become expensive.
Those fillers were made to spring back without
damage after a bump. I am not planning bumps,
so a simple piece of sheet metal sprayed the
right color ought to be fine. Truth is a
driver does not need fillers.
Another thing disappearing from my cars as they
near the half century mark, is the headliner.
That is one of the few things that was better in
my 60s cars. Turns out they drive fine without
it. These really are drivers, the total of the
cars on the lot is approaching 2 million miles.
Bruce Roe
Hi all. I made a couple of metal panels a few years back for my 1979 DeVille. I used either 18-gauge or 20-gauge steel (I can't remember which). For the front fenders the process was easy. I used the old plastic filler as a template and a shrinker/stretcher to make the curve. I than welded the steel panel to the fender. I was happy with the result, and I eliminated the line from the fender to the plastic panel as I was not looking for restoration authenticity. I am not a metal fabricator.
Very nice work. I also need something at the
back around the license plate, might include
an update of those lights. Bruce Roe
I understand everyone's frustration with Facebook marketplace. I get banned by a lot of the posters. I ask "why don't you do the fillers?" Or "why not charge the AC?"
They don't like that question. I wish I was a fly on the wall and could actually see how these car sales turned out. But my saved section on FB would run into the thousands. FB is free, so the "why not" comes out.
I like to sell whatever I have and no longer want. "Don't need to sell, just testing the water" is another pet peeve.
I do have one question: isn't it easier to take the bumpers off to properly install these fillers, then reattach the bumpers? Are people trying to install without removal?
Rear bumper must be removed to replace quarter panel extensions. There is no way around it.
For the horizontal sections that are only visible with the decklid open, bumper removal should not be necessary. (77-92 RWD). On 1977-1979, these are silver; from 1980 - 1992, they are body color.
Bcroe: I cut a section out of an old rear bumper (1989 Brougham) and welded it in place where the rubber filler was. The 1989 bumper part worked great, even though I was fabricating it to a 1979. It was somewhat hard to place the metal piece properly because of the slight curvature between both metal bumper sections, so I put extra weld to smooth it out. I also had to make a cut out for the gas cap. Again, I was not doing this for show car quality, so I was more than happy with the end result.
I have installed front and rear filler panels on a 76 Eldorado, without bumper removal. Remove the old filler panel as well as the bracket which provided structure. I have used the fiberglass fillers with good results. Drill out 3 holes in the mounting surface. Then I drill 3 holes in the fiberglass filler to match. Push a toggle bolt thru from the inside front fender area. The winged part opens after it passes into the front filler. Then tighten with a hand held battery powered drill, with a long extension. It allows for movement of the filler until you have it lined up exactly where you want, then tighten it down. A simple and easy solution which does NOT include removal of front or rear bumpers.
I just saw the ad that inspired this thread. Still for sale for the same price.
That also is further proof that the f book algorithm and search is crap. I always search for and look for the same stuff and have not seen this car since maybe June or July and today it shows it to me again today and says its been for sale the whole time apparently. Doesn't look like anything has been changed or updated in the ad.
Saw a new winner today and apparently another FB algorithm glitch since it said its been listed for 74 weeks and I just saw it now. Everyone line up for an 81 Eldo with 129k, dash cut up with wires hanging out and no radio, no intact fillers, headliner touching the headrests, and the best for last..... Its one of those color combos where the paint just falls off so the hood and trunk is mostly the black primer with the random splotches of blue. Sides actually look alright even though every photo is out of focus.
It does look clean otherwise and its a V6 which is not that common but probably the easiest to keep running these days. What would you pay for this gem? They are asking $16k
That's why it's still for sale. Moral of the story: Kooks exist in all walks of life.
Are the 80's fillers more of a problem than the 70's ones or are we at the age where many of the 70's ones have already been replaced?
What was the change in the headliners? Was it that foam layer? When did that start? 77?
With the newest fillers now being 32 years old, all model years are potentially at risk of decomposition.
There are essentially two factors contributing to this: Age and heat. The less of either, the better. For cars kept in where the average temperatures are the highest, I've seen fillers that become destroyed in as little as eight years. Conversely, I've seen 40/+ year old original fillers remain in perfect condition on cars where average temperatures are cool. Cars from Alaska and Canada often have some of the most perfectly preserved fillers to this day.
The new sound deadening cloth-over-foam headliners began with the new generation full size GM cars of 1977. The same factors affecting fillers also apply to this type of headlining. The headliner used 76-79 Seville has cross stitching which seems more resilient to the sagging of the single piece headliner used in the GM C & B body cars from 77-85 & Brougham up to 1992.