It's occurred to me that after randomly searching craigslist, ebay and the likes, that the prices for many Cadillac's of this vintage seem to be skyrocketing. Not sure if owners think they are holding to a big chunk of gold or something, but I've seen cars that are in miserable shape (missing trim, damaged fenders, tore up interiors, rust, horrible paint), owners are asking way too much for em.
It's also getting more difficult finding an all original, specifically untouched 60's-76 Cadillac's that is in very good to decent shape out there. If you do, they command a very high price these days.
So what's the deal? Are people finally realizing how cool these cars are, and the value you get out of them? The size of the Cadillacs alone, with their big engines, heavy duty feel, true full-size comfort with massively spacious interiors are worth a premium in 2017. Since in order for someone to obtain a car close to it's size that has a presence is a Rolls Royce Phantom or a Maybach Mulsanne.
Asking and what they are selling for are likely very different numbers. Are you seeing any indication that they are selling for those numbers?
One thing I have noticed lately is the insurance companies seem to be really inflating the values. I suppose higher values mean higher premiums? I know last time I changed companies the value they came up with for my car based on 2 photos was twice what I was thinking it was worth.
Every year, the tax man outrageously inflates the value of my 50 Cadillac, we're talking doubling or tripling in value. Every year with out fail, I have to contact them, send them pictures. "Yep, it's still rusty, still has holes in the floor. Nope, I didn't win the lottery and do a full restore". They just "assume" it's restored every year. So annoying.
Anyway, yes I've been seeing them creep up in price as well. But deals are still out there, especially if some rust doesn't scare you away fully.
A car friend of mine told me that a really nice classic car costs the same a new car, so I keep that in mind.
You want a super nice 1960-70's era Cadillac, you either buy the best you can afford or restore one (then it may be more) and the cost is somewhat similar to a new car.
Frankly, I'm glad classic cars are rising in value since I own three.
Of course there is a lot of terrible condition 1960-70 era cars that are misrepresented successfully to new to the hobby buyers and that is unfortunate. A 35 year old guy just joined our club a few years ago. He called me and wanted his 1969 Cadillac deVille Convertible speedometer repaired and he had the cable. Before he stopped over he asked if $4,500 was a good price to pay - and I said what all of the people reading would "depends on condition". It was terrible, frame rusted to the point of breaking in two, it was a crummy rusty parts car that drove, complete with wrong interior and etc. The car had to have 500lbs of body filler. Anyway I told him to junk it, but it was sold...on to the next...
Agree with other posters, asking and selling price are often quite different.
I agree with the OP's observations on values of 1960s and early 1970s Cadillacs, and I say this based on known sales, not asking prices which cannot be relied upon, obviously.
However, there does not seem to have been significant appreciation among later 1970s models whose values have remained relatively unchanged for decades. After taking inflation into account, these cars have actually seen net depreciation during this period. I doubt there will be a much better time to buy into this era of Cadillac which are among the last great Cadillacs of the traditional variety, without all the on board electronics that began appearing shortly thereafter.
Unfortunately the modern media and it's broadcast of auctions like Barrett-Jackson have created unrealistic pricing ideas in the minds of many folks. Age does not translate into value. The Cadillacs of the later 60s and 70s were not as sought after as earlier Cadillacs and many folks didn't preserve them, with the exception of the 1976 Eldorado Convertible. Unfortunately due to the massive amount produced and the fact that convertibles were revived, these cars were not the priceless collectible some had banked on. Even today within our club there are many who still have not come to appreciate Cadillacs of this era. The only thing that really defines value is what a car sells for and these prices are very slowly moving upward. To many of us, these Cadillacs represent an excellent value as an entry into the hobby.
Hello
I hope the current increase in 60s and 70s Cadillac prices does not deter the Millennial's and Generation Xers from joining the CLC. An original vehicle iis a great long term investment for their portfolio.
Recently My Wife and I attended the Florida Meecum auction near Orlando about an hour from where we live. They said there were approx. 3,000 cars auctioned. I believe it , it was huge , took up an entire fairground. One thing however we noticed that a majority of cars did not sell meeting their reserve , including many Cadillac's of the 60's and 70's . Not trying to be a wet blanket but I personally have not seen our cars bringing their asked for prices . I also wonder as an aside how much if any our cars will appreciate in the future as our generation who grew up with them die off. I point to Model T and Model A Ford's , when I was younger these cars traded for good money that just does not seem to generally be the case anymore . Just my observation .
I lump the Ebay and Craig's List sellers as having been bitten by the Barrett-Jackson TV bug. What are you gonna do? The folks I have problems with are the large scale dealers. For example, about twice a month, for grins and giggles, I Google search "1970 Coupe deVille for sale". As expected, most listings come up from dealers, with WAY inflated prices. When you read the car's description, it states little about condition, what WE would be interested in. I guess they think that the photos will tell that tale (photoshop anyone?) What they DO write about is the lines of the car, how many were produced (don't forget to use the term "rare") and most importantly, how you will FEEL driving the car. Basically, a tour de force in PUFFERY! So, my impression is that these dealers are looking to feast on first time buyers, those that just got an itch to have a classic Cadillac. Funny thing is, more often than not, these same cars are still being advertised 6 to 8 months after I first noted them on the internet. I always wondered if I walked into one of these dealers with CASH, but at a fair price, if they would go for it or continue to hold out for that magical rube.
I agree with others that a large part of the problem are more and more classic car dealers thinking they can charge new car prices for some of these cars are smoking some of that good stuff. Classic car auctions on TV included.
Also, they're simply aren't a ton of well-kept originals out on the market for reasonable prices that are for sale. You either find beaters that owners want a semi-fortune for, or ones where they are half done and need all kinds of extra work to be in decent shape.
Here's a nice example of a 61 Cadillac Sedan Deville for sale in my local area. The guy wants around $18,000 for it, what do you guys think? Over priced or right on the money?
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/5999534801.html
My favorite ads are the ones that end with "OBO" (Or Best Offer). My experience has been that these are the most reasonable people to deal with. Their listed price is what they would LIKE to get for the car.......in a perfect world. Going in, you have no idea what the situation is. Maybe the wife is throwing him out (at the end of this week!). Maybe he needs the space asap for a new project. Ya just don't know! Throw an offer out there that you're comfortable with. The worst that the seller can say is NO! Have a little fun with the negotiation. I've had sellers get really upset, like it was an affront to their manhood, when I've come in lower than their asking price. On the other hand, I have a buddy who gets really hissy unless he feels he made the sellers eyeballs bleed. A wise man once told me "a good deal occurs only when the buy and the seller are both happy". Most important thing is, whatever the price, ya gotta WANT the car in the first place.
Living in San Diego I would say it's overpriced by $6000. It's clean and looks nice but it's a 2 door price at best. Purchased mine off EBay in LA for $6,800. 5 years ago. Put 2 into it. Still need 6 more.
Although that white 1961 Sedan DeVille is totally loaded and the interior looks really good it is a repaint and they even repainted the inside of the trunk lid. Also it is now missing the DeVille markings from both front fenders , so I wonder how much bondo is now in the car even though the underhood shot suggests a clean car. Given that it is a six window 4 door I would say in this economy without being able to personally inspect and drive the car approx. $ 8,000.00 max. I just sold a very clean 90% original paint rare 4 window 1961 Sedan DeVille flat top with 36,000 original miles in Dresden Blue with blue interior for $ 10,000.00 in February 2015.
That white 61 is a mess. Under the hood is very boogered up. The seats have been reupholstered with the wrong cloth. I could go on and on with what I see, but, as I see, knock the 1 off the front of the price, and you'll get inquiries and expect $7500.00
Value is of course in the eye (wallet) of the beholder. I lusted after a Mirage but couldn't fine one that was either more than a billion dollars or a pile of rust held together with paint. When this "Paris" (200 built and sold through Cadillac dealers) popped up I jumped. I now have about 28k in it and it needs another 2 for completion. The point bei9ng, when you start thinking of concrete values you forget these cars are NOT investments. They are toys and are only worth what we feel they are worth. Yes prices are going up, but if I had put the 28kl into the market (when I bought the Paris) it would be over 50 now.
Greg Surfas
FWIW . . .
Last year, Hagerty sent a note with my renewal for my '72 Convertible that prices were going up, and gave me a box to check to increase my coverage from $8k to $10k. Cost me something like $8 or $12, iirc.
hawk
Quote from: TJ Hopland on March 12, 2017, 10:00:40 AM
Asking and what they are selling for are likely very different numbers. Are you seeing any indication that they are selling for those numbers?
One thing I have noticed lately is the insurance companies seem to be really inflating the values. I suppose higher values mean higher premiums? I know last time I changed companies the value they came up with for my car based on 2 photos was twice what I was thinking it was worth.
Funny you should mention this!
My State Farm agent recently told me that my '73 Eldorado was underinsured
and came up with a number that was (as in your case) about twice what
I thought it was worth.
I believe, as you stated, that it's a scheme to up the premiums.
Especially with State Farm, who are one of the cheapest when it comes to
paying off when you have an accident.
My wife's 1995 Seville, which was an absolutely perfect driver was recently
totaled. The nice people at State Farm (based on one comparable) offered
me a big check for $3,000 - take it or leave it. It was not quite old enough
to be an "antique" so I had to insure it was a regular car. Here in PA that's
25 years.
Mike
Greg, are you bringing the Paris to this years GN? Its looking great!!!
Jeff
I haven't seen any dramatic increase in prices for '60's and early '70's Cadillac's. There are outliers...I was at Mecum Houston last week and a '65 Eldorado sold for $41K, a price twice what I'd have paid. It wasn't terrible, but had fairly poor quality bodywork and paint, a nicely done interior, but a car that I thought should have brought $25K max. I suspect there may have been some shill bidders or other monkey business, as the car was simply not a $40K car in my opinion. Or maybe two bidders just had to have that particular car...one of the pitfalls of auctions...
As someone pointed out, sellers often ask ridiculous prices, but actual selling prices are fairly flat. Look at the sales of Barrett Jackson Palm Beach. Several nice early '70's Eldorado convertibles sold for not much more than $10K.
The exception to flat prices is the first generation Eldorado. These cars...actual sales, not asking prices, have definitely gone up. I think this is because the styling of these cars was so far ahead of their time, the foundation of the Art & Science theme that has made modern Cadillac's so successful. Plus, the engineering and build quality of the '67-'70 Eldorado represented a high water mark for Cadillac.
While I love Hagerty, I believe their price guides and valuation tools are pretty much worthless. They are hopelessly optimistic...I guess its in their interest to be optimists, but I've found their prices bear little relationship to market prices. NADA Classics and other guides are a lot more grounded in reality.
I happen to agree with Greg the "Cadillac Kid".
..."when you start thinking of concrete values you forget these cars are NOT investments. They are toys and are only worth what we feel they are worth."
WE are involved in a hobby, not bankers, or on Wall Street.
I enjoy working on my cars.
I look forward to the fun, and joy that I experience when I drive them - it makes me happy.
I have the cars for me, and not for the investment, nor for the thumbs up - as I drive along.
I'm in the hobby to be hedonistic, and not a money grubbing mercenary.
I don't lament what I could have, would have, or should have done with the money, any more than not having used it for a 100" TV with surround sound.
IMHO.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Occasionally, hobbyist enjoyment and investment aspects can overlap over the course of vintage car ownership.
When it does, so much the better!
In December 2016, I saw a 1976 Coupe deVille sell at the Raleigh Classics auction for $20,250 (plus the 8% buyer’s fee). I am not suggesting this is typical -- the car had 13,600 miles, and was really a beauty. It was Dunbarton Green with a white cabriolet roof and white leather interior.
The rise in prices among these cars applies primarily to those in excellent condition. Because of the cost and difficulty of restoration work, there is a wide gulf between the value of a car with typical deterioration and one that is virtually like new. The market does seem to appreciate the value of '60s and '70s Cadillacs in the latter category.
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on April 15, 2017, 03:22:49 PM
I happen to agree with Greg the "Cadillac Kid".
..."when you start thinking of concrete values you forget these cars are NOT investments. They are toys and are only worth what we feel they are worth."
WE are involved in a hobby, not bankers, or on Wall Street.
I enjoy working on my cars.
I look forward to the fun, and joy that I experience when I drive them - it makes me happy.
I have the cars for me, and not for the investment, nor for the thumbs up - as I drive along.
I'm in the hobby to be hedonistic, and not a money grubbing mercenary.
I don't lament what I could have, would have, or should have done with the money, any more than not having used it for a 100" TV with surround sound.
IMHO.
Have fun,
Steve B.
AMEN! EAM
X2. Steve hit the nail on the head. If I was I this to make money, I wouldn't be in this!
What about 59's?
Any movement up?
Thanks
JWW
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on March 14, 2017, 01:23:25 PM
Value is of course in the eye (wallet) of the beholder. I lusted after a Mirage but couldn't fine one that was either more than a billion dollars or a pile of rust held together with paint. When this "Paris" (200 built and sold through Cadillac dealers) popped up I jumped. I now have about 28k in it and it needs another 2 for completion. The point bei9ng, when you start thinking of concrete values you forget these cars are NOT investments. They are toys and are only worth what we feel they are worth. Yes prices are going up, but if I had put the 28kl into the market (when I bought the Paris) it would be over 50 now.
Greg Surfas
Looks like one is for sale in Buda TX FYI-project car...not too far from you. Chuck
https://www.facebook.com/ATXcarPICS/posts/1470402759748777
A Caribou. My hope would be the seller has the tailgate stashed somewhere.
Surprised no one has mentioned the rise for the value of 90-92’s and 94-96 full-size fleetwoods. As well as early 80’s fleetwood coupes and low mileage late 70’s and early 80’s cadillacs in general
Found 'The Ark' on Craig's List for 6K. 5 days before Christmas it was mine for 2k cash. 96K miles. Yes I've spent that in replacement parts that may or many not have been necessary, and period correct tires and battery. And its going into the shop next week for correct color paint, roof and minor body work. I've got a lot of work to do on the chrome still. We'll work on the nearly flawless interior next year. This is the car of my childhood, bought as a time capsule not an "investment". Hagerty valued it at 7K, my premium was $170. My town valued it at $350 and my excise tax was $5.
I don't care if it goes up or down in value, its my link to my youth and will never be sold. And I am SO BLESSED to own it. At least that's what I keep telling myself when the AmEx bills come, LOL! Car shows coming up all summer and I can't wait!
Quote from: Tonyv_73 on February 19, 2018, 09:57:03 PM
Surprised no one has mentioned the rise for the value of 90-92’s and 94-96 full-size fleetwoods. As well as early 80’s fleetwood coupes and low mileage late 70’s and early 80’s cadillacs in general
I think it depends. I just sold my 94 Fleetwood last week and it took me over 2 months to sell it which I figured it would be gone in a weeks tops, boy was I wrong. The car did have almost 200k miles on it, but everything worked.
It had paint fade and the front seats were worn. I priced it at $3,000. Way too many people just threw low ball numbers and I got so frustrated with people not following through with their interest and acted like they were serious, but weren’t.
Sometimes it’s not good assume things. I had this problem, thinking that I was going to get a lot for my car being the last of the big body Caddies, but everyone was offering me only $1500-1800.
I had a big subwoofer and amp in the trunk I removed after I sold it. I really wanted to get more for the car with the amp and sub, but it didn’t happen.
At the end of the day I settled for only $1600. I needed the car gone, as it was just sitting all the time.
Not to sound racist, but the only demographic of people that bothered to contact me about the car were Hispanic and Black dudes. No White guys at all. This has been the case with the other Cadillacs I’ve owned in the past. The demographics of people looking to buy these cars are mostly lower income and minority’s. They love the old Caddies, and honestly I wish more older people appreciated our old cars more, but in my experience most of the people that have complimented all my old cars have been younger Blacks and Mexicans.
It’s hard to sell old Caddies depending on your location, we are a very small group of Cadillac enthusiasts, and the popularity of Cadillacs from all decades interest certain kinds of people.
Owning a Cadillac is for people that appreciate what traditional luxury used to be like in the U.S. Someone who loves a smooth floaty ride and all they care about is being isolated and pampered from the road while looking cool at the same time.
Unfortunately fast cars sell fast, and will always will. While the cruisers can take time.
Quote from: 64CaddieLacky on February 20, 2018, 12:58:26 AM
I think it depends. I just sold my 94 Fleetwood last week and it took me over 2 months to sell it which I figured it would be gone in a weeks tops, boy was I wrong. The car did have almost 200k miles on it, but everything worked.
It had paint fade and the front seats were worn. I priced it at $3,000. Way too many people just threw low ball numbers and I got so frustrated with people not following through with their interest and acted like they were serious, but weren’t.
Sometimes it’s not good assume things. I had this problem, thinking that I was going to get a lot for my car being the last of the big body Caddies, but everyone was offering me only $1500-1800.
I had a big subwoofer and amp in the trunk I removed after I sold it. I really wanted to get more for the car with the amp and sub, but it didn’t happen.
At the end of the day I settled for only $1600. I needed the car gone, as it was just sitting all the time.
Not to sound racist, but the only demographic of people that bothered to contact me about the car were Hispanic and Black dudes. No White guys at all. This has been the case with the other Cadillacs I’ve owned in the past. The demographics of people looking to buy these cars are mostly lower income and minority’s. They love the old Caddies, and honestly I wish more older people appreciated our old cars more, but in my experience most of the people that have complimented all my old cars have been younger Blacks and Mexicans.
It’s hard to sell old Caddies depending on your location, we are a very small group of Cadillac enthusiasts, and the popularity of Cadillacs from all decades interest certain kinds of people.
Owning a Cadillac is for people that appreciate what traditional luxury used to be like in the U.S. Someone who loves a smooth floaty ride and all they care about is being isolated and pampered from the road while looking cool at the same time.
Unfortunately fast cars sell fast, and will always will. While the cruisers can take time.
How do you know if someone is "hispanic" (I hate that term) or black from a phone call??? Because that DOES sound racist.
Now, Where do you live? That can have an impact on your market.
According to KBB 1600 was a fair price for how you discribed the car.
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on February 20, 2018, 11:30:52 PM
How do you know if someone is "hispanic" (I hate that term) or black from a phone call??? Because that DOES sound racist.
Now, Where do you live? That can have an impact on your market.
I live in the San Diego area. Oh and how can I tell? Well I ask for their names lol.
Also everyone that has checked out my Caddies in the past have been mostly non White. Just being honest here. Not that it matters, since I’m glad at least someone loves these cars and will take good care of it.
Quote from: 64CaddieLacky on February 20, 2018, 12:58:26 AM
Not to sound racist, but the only demographic of people that bothered to contact me about the car were Hispanic and Black dudes. No White guys at all. This has been the case with the other Cadillacs I’ve owned in the past. The demographics of people looking to buy these cars are mostly lower income and minority’s. They love the old Caddies, and honestly I wish more older people appreciated our old cars more, but in my experience most of the people that have complimented all my old cars have been younger Blacks and Mexicans.
Its not racist. I had the SAME problem trying to sell my beloved but dead 1996 Concours years ago. I wanted someone to buy it and restore it. But the only calls I got were from blacks who wanted a driver even though I was SPECIFIC in my advertising it was NOT a driver. No hispanic callers, "low riders" weren't in vogue at that time. And its easy to tell a person's heritage in most instances by their dialect and grammar.
\m/
Laurie
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on February 22, 2018, 02:25:09 AM
Its not racist. I had the SAME problem trying to sell my beloved but dead 1996 Concours years ago. I wanted someone to buy it and restore it. But the only calls I got were from blacks who wanted a driver even though I was SPECIFIC in my advertising it was NOT a driver. No hispanic callers, "low riders" weren't in vogue at that time. And its easy to tell a person's heritage in most instances by their dialect and grammar.
\m/
Laurie
Spot on! I honestly thought someone from the low rider community was going to buy the car since the 93-96 Fleetwoods are popular within the low rider scene. Including the 77-92 Broughams which are everywhere at lowrider shows out here in SoCal.