Another Body shop story

[Bobby B]

Anyway mine is nicer. LOL

Who's car is in that picture? Is that Yours???
                                               Bobby

[Big Fins]

No worries, Bobby. We got Jonny a seeing eye dog! 

[Bobby B]

No worries, Bobby. We got Jonny a seeing eye dog! 

OMG! Now I feel really BAD......
                          Bobby

[Dan LeBlanc]

It has the wrong hubcaps the interior is wrong so it’s priced right at 22k . Buy it for 20 and it’s a good buy to put back right . Would have made a way better starting point than the eBay car for 12 . You have to remember even finished a 60 Seville is only going to bring 45 k or so , so this car is priced right at 20k put another 25k  in it and have a nice driving car . 60 Seville’s just don’t bring big money when you can get 60 Biarritz s all day long under 100 k.

That's why I posted it...it's a much better starting point.

[INTMD8]

Plus it will have a 'Collectability Level' of D-.   

Agreed with what most others are saying. If you can get a nice driver for 45k that has to be the best route to go.

You'll spend way more and years of your life to restore one.  Can't afford to write a check for 45k just get a loan. Will be less per month than you'll spend on restoring it.

[Dan LeBlanc]

Can't afford to write a check for 45k just get a loan. Will be less per month than you'll spend on restoring it.

You know, that is one way to look at it that I never really thought of.  Everything is done on payments these days, so why not?  Sure the interest will make a bit of a premium on top of the whole thing, but, that would be offset by the cost of the project vehicle whereas the principal would be offset by the cost of restoration, so it would seem like a wash at first glance.  The difference is you can drive and enjoy now.

Up here, you can get a line of credit for starting as low as 4.5% - cost of borrowing is pretty cheap.

[76eldo]

It’s the best way to go. You can’t compare the thrill of getting a nice car and immediately enjoying it as compared to years of work and putting up with body shops, chrome shops and interior shops that rip you off and take years to do a job.

There are some top notch shops out there but you better be prepared to spend some serious money to get a car done right and on a reasonable time frame.

[SixDucks]

Hmm..... interesting concept.  I never really  put any thought to the buy now pay later being more cost effective in the long run. My normal approach has ALWAYS been save up and pay cash.  However I missed a Sausalito Green '71 Eldorado convertible recently because I refused to take a loan out to purchase it. I quickly started to liquidate only auto related assets to fund the purchase and that one slipped away. I was dead set against touching any savings that was not earmarked for the purchase of a '71 Eldorado convertible. In hindsight I should have probably financed the shortage and paid off the loan. Could've, would've, should've.

Terry

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Bruce.

[cadillac ken]

Agreed with what most others are saying. If you can get a nice driver for 45k that has to be the best route to go.

You'll spend way more and years of your life to restore one.  Can't afford to write a check for 45k just get a loan. Will be less per month than you'll spend on restoring it.

Absolutely.  Even with the interest charge over the life of the loan, it will pale in comparison to the amount of money spent on restoring one. 

Now with that said you still need to vet any car you look at.  Today the amount of cars "restored" for resale are in large numbers.  When figuring ones profit margin upon retail it can severely affect the quality and extent of the work done for that purpose. As always buyer beware-- even at the big auctions there can be some real ugly builds hiding beneath the surface under those pretty lights. I've seen it for myself.

Restoration of a special car (to you) is the only time I can see the expense justified.  And I can tell you I have a shop full of them.  Cars folks owned since high school, dated their current wife in, brought their kids home from the hospital in, the car their dad left to them, and so on.  Folks don't want any nice (insert marque, year, and model) car.  They want their car and fully understand that it simply costs way more to do it than to buy the same model done correctly.

[Dan LeBlanc]

Ken makes a valid point on restoration and sentimental value.

Case in point - when my father passed on 2 years ago, I inherited his tools and his 1954 Ford NAA tractor.  No amount of money will buy that tractor and my intention is to restore it.  I could buy one in show condition for around $5k and it will cost me about that to restore his.  It ran out of gas at the end of my driveway a couple of weeks ago.  3 separate people stopped in while I was doing other things within an hour asking if it was for sale.  I turned them all down, and they were 3 good offers considering the condition of the tractor.

My wife sort of gets it, thankfully.  Sometimes, even if it doesn't make sense, you just do it, but there has to be a motivating factor, otherwise you lose interest and the internet is full of projects for sale where folks have lost interest.

After the 3rd guy that day, I hopped in my car, got gas, and tucked it back in the garage.  I still take it down the road once in awhile just to keep things working, but it needs everything gone through. 

[INTMD8]

You know, that is one way to look at it that I never really thought of.  Everything is done on payments these days, so why not?  Sure the interest will make a bit of a premium on top of the whole thing, but, that would be offset by the cost of the project vehicle whereas the principal would be offset by the cost of restoration, so it would seem like a wash at first glance.  The difference is you can drive and enjoy now.

Up here, you can get a line of credit for starting as low as 4.5% - cost of borrowing is pretty cheap.

Yes you will have some interest cost but I think it still works out much better. (agreed with above, throw all this out the window if we are talking about a car with sentimental value).

So, 45k @ 4.5% for 60 months is zero down, $839 a month.


Or, buy a project and spend the next 5 years and 50k+ restoring it. 

In this case that's comparatively 12k down and $833 a month. (plus a few thousand hours of labor)


I have saved myself a bit of money recently (probably 60k) by buying a partially completed project and finishing it myself.  Was a lot of work but I bought the car for less than the previous owner had just in parts and body/paint.  Not to mention a huge head start on time. It took me one year instead of several.

[Big Fins]

My wife sort of gets it, thankfully.

That's what it took for my cars. People stopping in while I work on them and ask if it is for sale. When she hears the offers, she just looks at me knowing what I paid and have in it.

[76eldo]

This is the thread someone was looking for.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Except for the rarest circumstances, I would never recommend the use of borrowed money for the purchase of a vintage car.

[cadillac ken]

It all depends on where you are in life.  Kids in college or going to college, huge house payment, and so on,  then I'd agree probably not the time to take a loan for a big toy.

But, house paid for, kids grown, all other expenditures well under control, then I can see it. 

I hear folks say all the time "I can't afford that" when in reality they simply, IMHO, want too much.  Most folks that say that to me already have a fishing boat, a Harley, a couple of jet skis, a decked out $60,000 pick up truck (they are paying on) and at least one old car already in their garage. 

For me the old adage "living beyond your means" comes to mind.

[76eldo]

Eric,

Money is cheap right now. I’ve been fortunate and have been able to buy my cars for cash.  What I’m saying is that you can sometimes find a nice car for sale at a good price and negotiate the price too. Estate sales, divorce sales, these things pop up sometimes. So let’s say you can find a car of your dreams that someone is selling for $25,000. You really want the car but you only have $5000 or $10,000. Of you buy a non running, rusty car rust needs chrome and interior you are going to pay at least $35,000 to $$40,000 or possibly much more to restore the cheaper car. You are also going to have to deal with numerous shops for paint and body, upholstery, chrome, find missing or damaged parts plus the time factor. Possibly years!!!

Or get a home equity loan for 4 percent and buy an appreciating classic, get to drive it right away and enjoy the car and make payments and still come out ahead even with the interest.

There are lots and lots of nice Caddy’s for sale all the time. That’s my opinion.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Eric,

Money is cheap right now. I’ve been fortunate and have been able to buy my cars for cash.  What I’m saying is that you can sometimes find a nice car for sale at a good price and negotiate the price too. Estate sales, divorce sales, these things pop up sometimes. So let’s say you can find a car of your dreams that someone is selling for $25,000. You really want the car but you only have $5000 or $10,000. Of you buy a non running, rusty car rust needs chrome and interior you are going to pay at least $35,000 to $$40,000 or possibly much more to restore the cheaper car. You are also going to have to deal with numerous shops for paint and body, upholstery, chrome, find missing or damaged parts plus the time factor. Possibly years!!!

Or get a home equity loan for 4 percent and buy an appreciating classic, get to drive it right away and enjoy the car and make payments and still come out ahead even with the interest.

There are lots and lots of nice Caddy’s for sale all the time. That’s my opinion.

If it's a once in a lifetime find, bargain etc., then I say go for it. That's why I prefaced by saying "Except for the rarest of circumstances...".  Barring that, purchasing a collector car on credit is not a good idea as a for the average buyer paying full market value as a general rule.   

[marty55cdv]

     I like having money in my savings account so I have no problem saying I have borrowed money from my 401k @ 4 % to buy 3 of my current cars which I have paid myself back for . I don't really see a difference between a collector car and a Boat or Side by Side 4 wheeler, camping trailer etc.  Most people buy these on credit with drawn out terms so they can afford the payment and by the time they are through paying for them they have depreciated and maybe worth 40 percent of the original cost.  I do not look at my cars as investments they are what I choose to spend money on as a hobby.  But the cars did cause me to buy a different home 9 years ago with a larger lot so I could build a garage to put them in. I do look at that as an investment and with the housing market going crazy here in Salt Lake in the past few years, my home has appreciated about 32% .

[59-in-pieces]

Admittedly I stopped reading when this post jumped the tracks and got off topic, but since it got to a 5 page post, I started to read the most recent posts.

But, the HORROR !

As often happens within any group it comes down to MONEY - and who has MORE.
TRANSLATION - competition for points or awards or envy becomes more about DOLLARS than SENSE.
And yes, I spelled that right - not cents.

All the great Concourse event cars have little or nothing to do with the owner turning a wrench or working with their hands, but which restoration shop was PAID MORE to win a prize or adulation for the owner.

This forum has its share of such folks and the discussions about loans to have it NOW than PERSONALLY WORKING FOR IT over time are perfect examples of what members have railed against about the Disposable Society and the "I want it now generation" - and my personal favorite is a combination of the two = LEASE IT NOW which feeds instant gratification, then turn the leased car in, then sign and repeat.... don't BUY, that takes more commitment to accumulate the money, and even more to fix up that classic.

I for one say if you are too old to do the work or you have the bucks from which ever source - as NIKE says - just do it.

But for me - working with my hands to the extent of my education - training - experience is far more personally fulfilling than writing a check - regardless of whatever financial resources are available.

From one of the Old School and a Dying Breed - drop the MICrophone.

Have fun,
Steve B.