While touring a few of the local collections on Friday, we ran across a Series 75 Limosine.
On the firewall in stenciled white letters were a series of letters and numbers. They were painted as follows;
M 4110163
R 10
J 368509
The owner believes this car was once assigned to Admiral Chester Nimitz as his personal staff car. I did some searching but, I'm coming up empty.
Would any of the Members here have any idea where I would look to substantiate this claim of ownership/assignment?
I failed to get the exact year of the car, but the people I was with know. I will find out and add this information as soon as it's available.
Thanks, for any leads I can get in advance.
Fins
Quote from: Big Fins on March 15, 2008, 12:48:05 PM
While touring a few of the local collections on Friday, we ran across a Series 75 Limosine.
On the firewall in stenciled white letters were a series of letters and numbers. They were painted as follows;
M 4110163
R 10
J 368509
The owner believes this car was once assigned to Admiral Chester Nimitz as his personal staff car. I did some searching but, I'm coming up empty.
Would any of the Members here have any idea where I would look to substantiate this claim of ownership/assignment?
I failed to get the exact year of the car, but the people I was with know. I will find out and add this information as soon as it's available.
Thanks, for any leads I can get in advance.
Fins
03-15-08
FINS, Contact the DEPT.of the NAVY. You should be able to WEB.( Send numbers)
Good Luck,JIM
Thanks Jim, I give it a try and post what I find if anything.
Fins
Quote from: Big Fins on March 15, 2008, 02:06:06 PM
Thanks Jim, I give it a try and post what I find if anything.Fins
03-15-08
Fin, If you could find NIMITZ'S personel driver he could verify the car he drove for Nimitz. Use the search engine on your computer,Type-in "Bio Admiral Chaster Nimitz"S personal driver. He will be listed near the end ,AKA "Knobby"Walsh.
Good Luck,JIM
John,
The M # I'm guessing is the motor number and is proper for a 1936 model 80 or 85. This would seem to fall in place with the J# of 368509, a 1936 model 8509 which is a 5 passenger sedan with a Fleetwood body.
Did this car have a V8 or a V12 engine?
Jeff
Ah Jeff, after further digging and a little help from a friend, I'm finding what you say to be be real close to the truth.
It is in fact a 1937 Fleetwood. A clean V-12 under the hood.
Here is a link to the location of the car. It does need some work on the inside, but looking at it, I would say it is not as bad as noted by the owner. To me it's overpriced, but then I know little about pre-war automobiles.
Maybe someone who reads this likes the car. Email me if you want to see it in person. The location is rather remote and secure.
Fins
Jim, After more searching, I found out "Knobby Walsh" was a fighter back in the 30's and Shemp Howard of the Three Stooges fame was his on screen manager.
Another one was a retired master Cheif or Boatswains Mate on the USS Saratoga.
And a host of others. But none that were private drivers for Admiral Nimitz.
Rest assured, I'll keep hunting. The history I'm learning is wonderful.
Fins
Quote from: South_paw on March 17, 2008, 06:49:39 PM
Here's a pic of the Admiral getting into what looks to be a Series 75. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can pinpoint the year/model. I don't know enough about Cadillacs from this era to confirm.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texasnavy.com%2Fnimitz%2Fnimitzleaving.jpg&hash=fb71d6845533dd4e336aefd24913cda8a636d3bd)
Lou
My guess is a Packard, maybe 1941?
Jeff
I'm losing it! I thought I had posted the link. Let's try again.
http://www.victorycars.com/inventory_details.asp?InventoryNum=794
Fins
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,778489-2,00.html
Quote from: Big Fins on March 18, 2008, 03:21:24 AM
I'm losing it! I thought I had posted the link. Let's try again.
http://www.victorycars.com/inventory_details.asp?InventoryNum=794
Fins
03-19-08
FINS,I've been looking at the pitcures of the cars. The one that FDR (reply #7) is in(I doubt very much that the Sercet-Service would allowFDR to ride in ADM. NIMITZ"S car)is a difference car then the one that ADM NIMITZ is shown geting into (can individual already in car be ID) in reply # 6. See reply # 10 next to bottom row, last column to right is a picture showing the same numbers & letters as was posted in the origional post. If the car that FINS saw was a difference car then the one shown in reply # 10, could it be that the NAVY was not usuing the SN of the car but maybe an order or contract number? It seems as tho VICTORY CARS still has his.
I have a GRANDSON in the NAVY right-now, stationed in JAPAN, I sent him an email and ask him to find out all he could about ADM. NIMITZ and his driver. I'll post his reply.
Good Luck,JIM
I'm still searching this one. More out of curiosity, that anything else.
I emailed the Dept. of the Navy, but to date, no response. It appears the cars in all the pictures are different. Looking at trim, interior, design, even the assist handles for entry and exit.
When I hear something, I'll put it out here to see.
Fins
Speaking of Chester Nimitz, I would highly recommend the Admiral Nimitz Museum/Museum of the Pacific War in Fredericksburg, Texas, if you're ever in the San Antonio/Austin area. Fredericksburg is about 60 miles from both and the town itself is beautiful, historic and a top tourist destination. Admiral Nimitz was born in Fredericksburg and raised on a ranch in nearby Kerrville and the people of Fredericksburg are very proud of their native son who, by all accounts, was a fine human being and a genuinely nice guy as well as an exemplary naval flag officer whose leadership contributed greatly to the Allied victory in WWII.
I have a 1936 60 series coupe...with the same style stencile on the firewall and in white color....the paint on the car we found to be olive drab ......NOT cannon smoke as the firewall plate says it should be...i couldnt find out any info...ft bragg in nc (wher ei am from) destroyed all motorpool records after the war...
i even went on to find bullets in the car that had fell and lodged behind the dash...in a caliber consistent with that era...i have them stored away...but i am sure they are marked with goverment casing marks...
her eis alink to when i first found my cars markings....i hit a dead end when trying to locate info bout the military...but i feel like mine is a military car......witht he olive drab paint...that was under the black paint...btw i am the 3rd owner of the car....this has been documented....
some will tell you the markings were put there by a dealer....i dunno know....could be true...or couldnt apply to all cars.....
base commanders had cars like these...and higher ranking officers....they werent always factory ordered..at the outset of the war the goverment and america was largly under prepared for war.....this is very true when it come to staff cars and base cars ect ect...so the militray DID purchase cars form ca rlots...used and new..and of course from the factorys under contracts......
i have pics i can post of mine cars numbers...if interested...i have mothballed the project pending completion of my new house....which is soon....
PLEASE PLEASE post ANY INFO you find out i certainly will keep up with the thread....
here is th elink to my post a few years ago......YES GUYS i search the site for topics and re read.. ;D
board will not let me post a links...do a seach for this....
1936 series 60 coupes?????
« on: January 16, 2006, 07:12:18 am »
Hello,
This is great info, Ironically I recently purchased this car from Victory cars, It now resides in Washington state.
No bullets have been found so far, The keyring has a New york tag on it and it looks old, also the clock was once repaired by a shop in new york city.
I'll Update if I find anything new
Roger
Quote from: Big Fins on March 15, 2008, 12:48:05 PM
The owner believes this car was once assigned to Admiral Chester Nimitz as his personal staff car. I did some searching but, I'm coming up empty.
Would any of the Members here have any idea where I would look to substantiate this claim of ownership/assignment?
You might try contacting the Nimitz Museum AKA Museum of the Pacific War in Fredericksburg, Texas, hometown of Chester Nimitz. Their website is www.nimitz-museum.org. "Contact us" is in a drop-down menu under "General Information".
Hi Rusty,
I did that too, and they have no documentation on Admiral Nimitz, being assigned a Cadillac by the base or the Dept of the Navy.
And Roger, Congratulations on the purchase of the car. I was fascinated by it.
Fins
I just finished decoding the stencil. M= motor #, 411 XXX for 36 V12, B =body # 10, J =job #. Someone else already gave that info. Why the stencil? I think I remember my 37 V12 conv. sedan as having them. In 36 & 37 Cadillac was producing both V8 & V12 cars using the same chassis. My theory is that the body was stencilled to show what chassis it was going on. I really don't think stencils have anything to do with military usage. Bob
09-04-08
BIG FINS RUSTY AND other interesting people.Why not put the FED'S to work... Inquire about him throught"the freedon of information act" Good luck,JIM
You should start your search with an order for the authentication materials from GM (now being farmed out to
Allied-Vaughn). This will probably be a copy of an invoice or production record. If it indicates that the car
was originally shipped to a distributor and not the US government, then I think it is somewhat less likely the
car was one Nimitz rode in for a long time during his career in the USN.
Chester Nimitz rode in many fine cars during his career. We see a couple in this thread. One is a Packard
and the other (with FDR in it) is probably a Cadillac Series 67 or a Buick Series 90 Limited.
I don't think it's likely that Nimitz would have been assigned a limousine in 1937. If Wikipedia is correct,
Chester Nimitz was only a Captain and not yet a Rear Admiral. He was promoted to Rear Admiral in June
1938, at which time he may have been assigned a car and driver. With that promotion, he became
commander of Cruiser Division (CruDiv) 2, followed shortly afterward by transfer to command of Battle[ship]
Division (BatDiv) 1 in September 1938. It's possible that a 1936 Cadillac V-12 sedan purchased by the US
Navy may have been his transportation where his unit was based.
If you research these units as of 1938-40, do not assume that they were composed of the same ships as in
December 1941 or based at the same places as in 1941.
Once you learn where these units were based, you can then contact those naval bases and see if there
is a base historian, as there is for many USAF bases. They may have a photo or other record of the car.
They won't know cars, though.
It's also possible that Nimitz rode in the car later in his career, although I know of a 1941 Cadillac that he is
said to have used.
P.S. -- Also try Naval Historical Center at Washington Navy Yard. They'll have a lot about Nimitz but not
much about cars. Nice folks.
The Dash has been removed and it appears the original color was olive type green. Also this 8509 is a five passenger but has no trunk,
it looks from the outside like a 7 pass imperial. It has a ton of leg room.
Roger
Well, I contacted GM Heritage Center and sadly my vin number is one of a few they do not have
Thanks for getting back to us with that.
Do you think the olive paint is an ordinary green offered for Cadillacs that year, or do you
think it's a special shade? I don't usually think of olive as being a color for US Navy cars.
What's the color combination number on the cowl?
Well here are the numbers from the tag and not all good, it seems their is a discrepancy, the car is a v12 and but the numbers on the tag are
style 36-7509
body # 10
trim # 4718
paint 33
why would a v12 be a 75 not a 85?
Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks
Roger
Roger, for some strange reason, Cadillac did not use any 80 or 85 series data plates in 36 or any 85 series in 37. They used only 70 or 75. The bodies were mounted on both V8 & V12 chassis. That's why they may have used the stencils as I mentioned in a previous post. Your car was originally Thessalon green. I don't have a chart showing the trim. I don't want to break any bubbles, but I really doubt that your car was sold to anyone but a rich person that could afford it at that time. HTH, Bob
It is my understanding that, because the only differences between the V-12 (series 80 and 85) and the V-8 (series 70 and 75) was the motor, Cadillac only produced one body tag. Meaning, that a series 70 body tag was used for both series 70 and series 80 and the series 75 body tag was used for both series 75 and series 85.
For 1936, the Cadillac Fleetwood color combination 33 was the following:
Body and fenders: Thessalon Green
Wheels: Scarab Green.
Also, Trim No. 4718 was a Brown Bedford Cord material.
Hope this helps.
Jon Riley
Thessalon Green was very dark. See chip IM-1204 at /www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorlibrary/cgi-bin/search/searchpic.pl?/ims/im1203-1222.jpg, "Bolling Green", which was another name for this shade.
So, Roger H, when you say the car is/was "olive type green", do you mean that it was subsequently painted a lighter, browner shade of green than Thessalon Green that you think was a military paint? Or, are you looking at a spot where the paint isn't very thick and it looks olive only because some of the primer is showing through?
Hello and thank you all for the great information, I did not know that about the body tags, The only part of the car that I have found the original color is when I removed the dash. It looks lighter than Thessalon Green on the color chart. Possibly the color has faded over time. I will take a picture of it and post it. I looks like a thick as normal layer of paint.
Thanks
Roger
Here is the picture of the dash, It sure looked like it had never been removed before.
Its lighter than thessalon green
Roger
Roger,
It is my understanding that all 1936 Cadillac dashes were painted one color. It did not matter what color the body was painted.
Last time I checked, the 1936 Cadillac Authenticity Manual was not yet completed. If it is completed, I would purchase one before doing much restoration work (if you want to bring it back to "factory" specs.). However, I would check to see if there is a 1936 authority and check with them as to the proper dash color.
Jon Riley
There's no reason for paint that was not exposed to sunlight to have faded very much.
Paint that was exposed to the sun a lot shouldn't be used for color measurements.
The photo is looking upward, isn't it? There's a left front door upper hinge in the photo?
If there's Thessalon Green here, I'd say it's along the channel for the windshield. On the
other hand, I see a fair amount of brown on the dash or cowl, along with some gray-green.
That's not Thessalon Green. If you find similar brown or gray-green on exterior panels of the
car, please let us know.
I'm afraid I don't see a strong connection to the military yet. Still, you may want want to
consider stripping the old paint off the exterior of the car very slowly, maybe just wet-sanding,
to look for a serial number or other military markings.
QuoteWhile touring a few of the local collections on Friday, we ran across a Series 75 Limosine ...
In the roster of surviiving V-16 Cadillacs [check Club's "Cadillac Database"] there is a 1936 Town Car (the only one built on the V-16 chassis that year) that was acquired by the U.S. Navy and used by Fleet Admiral Ernest J. King from 1941 through 1946; at that time it carried USN tag #17200. It was owned later by aficionado Leo L. Gephart (in the mid-sixties). Mr. Gephart told another V-16 colllector, in August 1965, that the car had been Admiral Nimitz' staff car through WW2. This could be fact or simply a case of mistaken identity between two admirals (Nimitz and King).
Thanks for all the input, yes the picture is pointing up on the left side, It looks like the chances are getting slimmer it belonged to Nimitz. I will contiunue the restoration and keep checking for signs of the original color and post if I find any starteling discoveries. I did not know about the manual, I will be sure to order one.
Thanks again
Roger
Regarding finding the Admiral's driver, unfortunately he died about 5 years ago. Lester Ansell of Brighton, Illinois. My grandfather did mention it was a 75, but beyond that I have no additional info. Sorry.