I saw someone had a similar post if not the exact problem I am having. I freshly rebuilt the WCFB single four barrell carb on my 56 CDV. The engine now stalls out when I get to operating temp in park and loses a lot of fluid out the passenger side of the throttle body. I used to have the old metal pins that weighted the floats but now I put in the rubber tipped ones and readjusted the floats. Seems to have made things worse. Actually before I messed with the floats I wasn't stalling at all. Is this a float issue? I'm thinking of putting the metal pins back in and taking out the rubber tipped ones that came with the rebuild kit.
Sounds like float level issue, either the needle and seat are the wrong ones ( the seat length can be an issue in some kits) or the many float adjustments required may have left the float hanging up on the main body, I have seen both of these conditions in the many WCFB's I have done. Gotta take it apart and go thru the set ups carefully. This assumes normal fuel pressures of course.
I put a reman Rochester 4 Jet on my 57, and after a short period of time I had a serious flooding problem that also showed up outside the carb. On inspection, one of the floats had liquid in it that could be heard when shook. Made the float ride too low in the bowl, and steadily flood the engine after cold start. Check it out. If you have a similar condition, I will talk you through the cheap fix.
Remember, if the float has fluid in it, it is gasoline. DO NOT put a flame to it to dry it out.
Kelly Martin
Quote from: Dave Shepherd on July 26, 2009, 08:17:52 PM
Sounds like float level issue, either the needle and seat are the wrong ones ( the seat length can be an issue in some kits) or the many float adjustments required may have left the float hanging up on the main body, I have seen both of these conditions in the many WCFB's I have done. Gotta take it apart and go thru the set ups carefully. This assumes normal fuel pressures of course.
Do you know what I'm referring too though? When I opened my WCFB for the rebuild it had these needles in there that weren't brass and had blunt ends. They were steel or something with a good weight. The also didn't have a rubber tip. I was told by a friend of a friend that I should put in the needles with the rubber tips because they are longer ( the ones that came in the rebuild kit) and will shut off the gas. I will take it apart again and see if I can't figure this out. Everything seems to be in good shape when I do my measurements. I'm confused at this point. I'll go over it again and see if I can't figure this one out.
I did just replace the Fuel pump. I guess I should check the pressure it's putting out.
Quote from: kelly on July 26, 2009, 10:30:04 PM
I put a reman Rochester 4 Jet on my 57, and after a short period of time I had a serious flooding problem that also showed up outside the carb. On inspection, one of the floats had liquid in it that could be heard when shook. Made the float ride too low in the bowl, and steadily flood the engine after cold start. Check it out. If you have a similar condition, I will talk you through the cheap fix.
Remember, if the float has fluid in it, it is gasoline. DO NOT put a flame to it to dry it out.
Kelly Martin
Kelly,
I checked for gas in the floats today and got nothing. So I'm secure there. It's just weird. As soon as I shut the engine off it takes about a little less than ten seconds. Then on the passenger side of the throttle body it just comes out all aover the manifold. I'm going to take it apart again when I get it back from the mechanic who's changing my bushing tomorrow and see if I can't figure this out. I'll see if I can't go over every instruction as carefully as I can.
I'm asking on this website because I looked on the rest of the internet and I found the dumbest solutions. I would like to share some of them because I was laughing at some.
1. Throw it away and buy a new one
2. They weren't meant to be rebuilt, the cleaning solution disolves the film on the metal that goes inbetween the metal on metal bores.
3. Gasoline of today is known to make the engine seem like it's flooding when it's really not in these old carburators. I think the person said that it was the ethanol in the Gas.
There were plenty more solutions, I also talked with a friend of a friend that used to rebuild carbs for a living so I'm sure these are just hocus pocus.
But the problem I was having was starting the engine after it was warmed up. I used to just pump it twice and turn the key. Now I have to put my foot all the way down on the foot throttle and crank it for about 5 seconds before it fires up (acts like it's flooded). Weird! I'm learning.
If it acts like it is flooded, odds are it is. If a loaded float is not the problem, the I would guess the float level adjustment is. The new rubber tipped floats require less leverage pressure from the float to seal the fuel input than did the solid brass ones.
Keep it simple. If the car is turned off and the carb visably floods, the residual fuel line pressure is probably the reason. The shut-off for this is the float needle valve. Set the float-full level slightly lower than you have it on the side that is flooding and see what happens. I would guess about an 1/8 of an inch should prove the case. If that fixes it, leave it be. If not, I would more suspect the needle seat (unless it is also new) than the rubber tipped needle valve. If it continues to flood, yell loudly.
Kelly Martin
Quote from: kelly on July 26, 2009, 11:41:02 PM
If it acts like it is flooded, odds are it is. If a loaded float is not the problem, the I would guess the float level adjustment is. The new rubber tipped floats require less leverage pressure from the float to seal the fuel input than did the solid brass ones.
Keep it simple. If the car is turned off and the carb visably floods, the residual fuel line pressure is probably the reason. The shut-off for this is the float needle valve. Set the float-full level slightly lower than you have it on the side that is flooding and see what happens. I would guess about an 1/8 of an inch should prove the case. If that fixes it, leave it be. If not, I would more suspect the needle seat (unless it is also new) than the rubber tipped needle valve. If it continues to flood, yell loudly.
Kelly Martin
...and be careful about gasoline dripping or leaking on a hot manifold! Be overly cautious about it and keep a fire extinguisher handy.
Quote from: kelly on July 26, 2009, 11:41:02 PM
If it acts like it is flooded, odds are it is. If a loaded float is not the problem, the I would guess the float level adjustment is. The new rubber tipped floats require less leverage pressure from the float to seal the fuel input than did the solid brass ones.
Keep it simple. If the car is turned off and the carb visably floods, the residual fuel line pressure is probably the reason. The shut-off for this is the float needle valve. Set the float-full level slightly lower than you have it on the side that is flooding and see what happens. I would guess about an 1/8 of an inch should prove the case. If that fixes it, leave it be. If not, I would more suspect the needle seat (unless it is also new) than the rubber tipped needle valve. If it continues to flood, yell loudly.
Kelly Martin
Needle seat and Needles are brand new. They all came in the rebuild kit. On my Carb the secondary floats hang a little lower than the primary, at this point i see what you are talking about because before the gas was leaking out the bore of the primary throttle on the passenger side. Now it seems to be pouring out the secondary bore of the passenger side. I should drop the float an 1/8 of an inch lower for the Secondary floats? I'll check the pressure too to see how many pounds of pressure it's putting out. What should I yell? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!
Yes, that will work!
Kelly
Christopher,
The shop manual indicates the fuel pump delivery pressure is between 4-6.5 PSI at idle speed. There are also several carb repair sites that provide additional details and tech tips..!
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm
I assume you have followed the complex float level and clearance settings as outlined in the o/h kit, no?
Quote from: Jose Gomez CLC #23082 on July 27, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
Christopher,
The shop manual indicates the fuel pump delivery pressure is between 4-6.5 PSI at idle speed. There are also several carb repair sites that provide additional details and tech tips..!
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm
Thanks Jose, I'll use this website. I have looked it over already. Do you really think that today's gas could be causing the car to hard start when it's warm?
Quote from: Dave Shepherd on July 27, 2009, 01:29:27 PM
I assume you have followed the complex float level and clearance settings as outlined in the o/h kit, no?
Dave,
I measured everything and made all the adjustments needed to make the float levels correct. I don't understand what's happening right now. This fuel that leaks out the throttle body is puzzling because I don't know what's causing the flooding. Could it be the fuel pump? is it the needles not getting up high enough to shut off the fuel? I'm going to go at it a couple more days and and get this.
Chris,
May I ask where you bought your carburator kit?....walt...tulsa,ok
Quote from: walt #23510 on July 27, 2009, 03:09:19 PM
Chris,
May I ask where you bought your carburator kit?....walt...tulsa,ok
Kanter, I looked on Carter WCFB online and it looks like the same kit that they sell.
While everything is all disconnected, perform the fuel pump test described in the shop manual. It is very simple and precise. Too little or too much from the specified number of squirts means buy a new pump.
No sense getting your carb problem fixed and then having pump issues. Even if it's brand new, test it according to specs anyway.
Quote from: Christopher Petti on July 27, 2009, 01:38:36 PM
Thanks Jose, I'll use this website. I have looked it over already. Do you really think that today's gas could be causing the car to hard start when it's warm?
Christopher,
I’m not sure if the new E10 fuel blend could be the cause of the hard starting in your particular case. There is tons of info out there and frankly I’m still unsure. I would leave it up to the experts to raise the issue; I’m just the nuts and bolt type of person..!
I’m not too familiar with the Carter carb; I have the Rochester 4GC in mine. The good thing about Rochester is there are two flush mount screws (primary and secondary bowls) that allowed inspecting the fuel level. From what I notice on the shop manual the Carter shows the same type of arrangement (Fig 10-51 Page 10-C-37). If these are accessible the fuel level should be below or at this level, this is the case for the Rochester.
I would suggest removing the carb and rechecked all adjustments. While at the bench you could test that floats are properly closing the flow into both bowls if you have a way to pump fluid (NO GASOLINE) into the carb. In my case I’ve used an electric 12V 5PSI fuel pump for that test. My rebuilt kit had the solid brass float needles, and if I recall one kit also included the seats.
Good luck..!
Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on July 27, 2009, 03:35:46 PM
While everything is all disconnected, perform the fuel pump test described in the shop manual. It is very simple and precise. Too little or too much from the specified number of squirts means buy a new pump.
No sense getting your carb problem fixed and then having pump issues. Even if it's brand new, test it according to specs anyway.
I'm going to take the top apart agian and see if I can't find out what the issue is. I'll test the pump and let you know what happens. I am going to figure this out. It's just annoying taking it off than putting it back on, then taking it off. 16 screws. What a pain! I'm sure it could be worse.
Not to mention the gaskets.
Hope you have a supply of them....
Quote from: Jose Gomez CLC #23082 on July 27, 2009, 03:44:37 PM
Christopher,
I’m not sure if the new E10 fuel blend could be the cause of the hard starting in your particular case. There is tons of info out there and frankly I’m still unsure. I would leave it up to the experts to raise the issue; I’m just the nuts and bolt type of person..!
I’m not too familiar with the Carter carb; I have the Rochester 4GC in mine. The good thing about Rochester is there are two flush mount screws (primary and secondary bowls) that allowed inspecting the fuel level. From what I notice on the shop manual the Carter shows the same type of arrangement (Fig 10-51 Page 10-C-37). If these are accessible the fuel level should be below or at this level, this is the case for the Rochester.
I would suggest removing the carb and rechecked all adjustments. While at the bench you could test that floats are properly closing the flow into both bowls if you have a way to pump fluid (NO GASOLINE) into the carb. In my case I’ve used an electric 12V 5PSI fuel pump for that test. My rebuilt kit had the solid brass float needles, and if I recall one kit also included the seats.
Good luck..!
Thanks Jose, I'll give it a shot. I'll let you know what I come up with. Unfortunately I'm in the middle of moving at the moment and I may not have as much time with the carb at the moment as I want. It just has to be ready for the Woodward Cruise so During this week hopefully I will get the time to test the whole carb. I have a little less than two weeks. Oh and the Pump is brand new.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on July 27, 2009, 03:49:47 PM
Not to mention the gaskets.
Hope you have a supply of them....
Why would I need a supply? The ones I have are brand new.
Does your carburetor use the stainless heat shim between the carb base and the gasket and is it in the proper place? It sounds like you may have a heat soak issue causing the fuel to boil in the bowl after you shut the engine down. Did your car originally have a heat spacer between the manifold and the carburetor, is it there?
I remember the shim you are talking about but in the rebuild kit I now have a thick redish pink gasket that goes between the manifold and the carb. Do I still need that shim? I think I may still have it. Honestly? The gas comes out the bores in the throttle body on the passenger side. You think that could be the issue? That wouldn't have anything to do with the hot hard starts though.
Quote from: Christopher Petti on July 27, 2009, 03:51:40 PM
Oh and the Pump is brand new.
Unfortunately these days that doesn't mean $hit.
I've had new pumps prove defective right out of the box.
Brand new (not reman) '56 fuel pumps are available from Airtex for less than $50 at any common auto parts chain (Carquest, Auto Zone, NAPA, Advance, O'Reilly's)
Don't assume that if something is new it must be perfect. Perform the test before hooking it up to the filter bowl.
On my 63, that shim is vital for the proper operation of the carburetor. The AFB Carter on my car will not idle properly unless that shim is directly under the carb on top of the gasket. It shields the aluminum carb body from the exhaust heat from the cross over in the intake manifold. The 63 and other years of that time frame, also had a plastic spacer about 1/2" thick to further insulate the carb from the heat. Maybe some of the others more familiar with your year can give you the low down on the proper gasket/spacer set up.
The sequence for my 63 is, gasket on the manifold, 1/2" spacer, gasket then the SS shim then the carburetor.
Evert time you remove the cover, you run a chance of leakage from the top of the bowl. Also, some adjustments require that the gasket be in place.
One other thing--the first year a single 4bbl Carter became standard was 1957.
And, yes, that metal shim is needed on the aluminum bowl Carter. It helps dissipate the exhaust heat, as well as warm the carburetor during warm up so the gas doesn't freeze.
No shim under a WCFB. There is no short cut to this that carb must come apart after the FP is checked.
My '56 has a 4bbl Carter and Dave is right, there is no shim on the '56.
Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on July 27, 2009, 08:06:07 PM
My '56 has a 4bbl Carter and Dave is right, there is no shim on the '56.
Well if i can get another shim I guess I'll try to find one but I don't see how that small peice is going to refract heat? It's stainless steel. I've grabbed a calphalon handle on a pot before it still was hotter than hell. Somehow I don't think that is my problem but I'll try and seek one out. If anyone knows where I could find a stainless steel shim without buying a rebuild kit I'd love to know. ANywho I'm going to test the fuel pump and then take apart the carb again and go through it with a fine tooth comb and see if I can do some experiment to make it work.
Oh you know what, last time I took the top off the carb the engine had been run for about an hour prior and all the chambers in the carb were full. I let the engine cool for almost two hours before I took the top off.
I just got off the phone with Tim from Daytona Parts Company,
He cleared up a lot of issues I had. He said a lot of what everyone on here was saying but he put it into sequence for me. The stainless metal shim under the carb only needs to be used on the WCFB's with Aluminum bases. The Original for the 56 should be cast Iron which I do have. So the stainless shim is not required in my case. What he boiled it down to is syncing my carb with the fuel pump. He told me that once I get the car up to operating temperature. I should have a rag ready and with the car idling I should remove my sight plugs which are on the driver side of the bowl. These plugs are about 3/8" in diameter. The fuel may pour out. If it does. Lower your floats a 1/16" then throw two bolts back in to hold down the top and check it again. Tim said to do this until there is no gas coming out. This should also help with the leaking after shut off. I shut the car off and look down the carburator with your flashlight there is no gas dripping from your venturi's. Lower the Floats till there is no gas dripping from the venturei's. Tim said this is due to heat and the new gas we run today expanding. Tim said this will solve your hard start issue as well as gas expanding and coming out the throttle bores. So I am going to stick with my rubber tipped needles that go with the new brass seats that I put in. The rubber tips I am told work better with debri from the gas tank if it's old. The blunt ends can get things stuck on the end and make your carb malfunction. Then my next step is like some of you suggested, lower my floats so that the gas at idle is just below the sight plugs and that should solve my problems. This makes Sense to me. I just wanted to thank all of you again for all your valuable advice. I'm still going to end up doing most of the tests such as the Fuel pump test to make sure what amount of pressure I'm dealing with. Tim said 5.5 is what I should be running but my pump is probably putting out 7. So I am going to sync my Carb with my fule pump to cure my car of these issues. I'll post one more time with the results.
Chris :)
Here's the Carb experts website. http://www.daytonaparts.com/
Makes sense. I did pull out the Mater Parts book and the AFB (aluminum) Carter came out in '57. The cast Rochester didn't use the tin plate for heat dissipation.
That expanding fuel issue is a real factor in how these carbs perform. Did they say anything about octane or a preferred fuel additive? I learned 15 years ago to stop filling at the first shut off of the pump. One hot afternoon, I collected about 1/2 gallon of gas in a pan as my car sat in the driveway and expanded out the filler pipe.
It seems like every time we turn around, there is another potential problem with vapor lock, poor economy or some other tweak we have to make in order for these cars to run properly.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on July 28, 2009, 08:48:53 PM
It seems like every time we turn around, there is another potential problem with vapor lock, poor economy or some other tweak we have to make in order for these cars to run properly.
"Amen" Walter! Isn't that the truth?!
This fuel expansion thing is really worth looking into. One reason I went to the Carter AFB from the Rochester was all the changes they made during the year on the settings.
If a higher-octane fuel burns cooler, then today's crap HAS to be affecting far more than just vapor lock and performance.
Quote from: Walter Youshock on July 28, 2009, 08:48:53 PM
Makes sense. I did pull out the Mater Parts book and the AFB (aluminum) Carter came out in '57. The cast Rochester didn't use the tin plate for heat dissipation.
That expanding fuel issue is a real factor in how these carbs perform. Did they say anything about octane or a preferred fuel additive? I learned 15 years ago to stop filling at the first shut off of the pump. One hot afternoon, I collected about 1/2 gallon of gas in a pan as my car sat in the driveway and expanded out the filler pipe.
It seems like every time we turn around, there is another potential problem with vapor lock, poor economy or some other tweak we have to make in order for these cars to run properly.
No not really Walt,
He said that the reason I am having the gas come out the side of the carb is due to shutting off the engine and the heat rising. He said that after the the engine is shut down the temp rises about 15 degree's which makes the gasoline expand and right now my float levelas are too high so it causes them to drain out the side. I can't believe that happened in your driveway. It expands that much? Wow! Then I should buy in the morning when it's cool and only fill up 3/4 of a tank. As the days goes on and the sun heats up my car I'll get the last 1/4 filled. ;) Wouldn't that be nice.
He didn't say to much more about today's fuels other than adjusting the floats will compensate for the boil over which is occuring from the heat in my case.
On a VERY hot day with a full tank, it will expand and come out the filler neck. Remember these cars have ventilated tanks!
We recently had a show and everybody was saying they could smell gas. Sure enough, there was a puddle under a Pontiac and the guy had just filled up that morning.
But, back to the carb issue: Sure the temp rises after the car is shut off, however, I wonder what the expansion is as the car is idling in 80-85 degree weather?
I have always had a stumbling problem on the '57. Pulling out from a stop, the car will lag and hesitate before it agrees to move. And this is after BOTH the Rochester and Carter carbs. Could this be one more variable to add to the mix?!?!
My '56 only began expanding and dripping out of the filler neck when Atlanta switched to E10. I now have to be careful not to completely top off the tank when filling up.
Chris,
I rebuilt one of these on my 56 myself and it perfomed "satisfactorily". However, I had my second one restored professionally by Jeff "The Old Carb Doctor" and can't say enough good about his work. Google him for the 800 number. I can't volunteer his time and advice, but you can call him and give him a shot. He may be able to walk you through something without having to send your carb to him. He's extremely precise and clear in his directions to me when I had some issues and an all-around good man! Good luck! Chuck
Chris,
As you have discovered, Tim and Ron at Daytona Parts really know their stuff. They will also rebuild your carb if you choose to go that route.
Ron helped me out of a jam when I had carb trouble with my '56 while on vacation. Coincidentally I was staying in New Smyrna Beach just 2 miles from their shop. He told me what my problem was over the phone and I drove over and picked up a part for $20.
Chuck's guy sounds good, too.
Quote from: carguyblack on July 29, 2009, 04:18:12 PM
Chris,
I rebuilt one of these on my 56 myself and it perfomed "satisfactorily". However, I had my second one restored professionally by Jeff "The Old Carb Doctor" and can't say enough good about his work. Google him for the 800 number. I can't volunteer his time and advice, but you can call him and give him a shot. He may be able to walk you through something without having to send your carb to him. He's extremely precise and clear in his directions to me when I had some issues and an all-around good man! Good luck! Chuck
Thanks Carguy,
I may give Jeff a ring. I listened to TIm and lowered my floats a 1/32" and now I have no more leaking Hooray! but now at about halfway through the gas peddel the engine chokes out like it has too much air. It sounds like a constant hissing (is that normal?). Then when I'm almost halfway in the pedel it just chokes out and when I let off the pedel sometimes it stays alive and goes back to idle and other times is just plain chokes out and shuts off.
My first solution to this issue was tightening up the "Idle-air bye pass screw" to stop flow of air. This helped a ton but after I adjusted the floats again ( adjsuted literally 1 red hair ) to stop the dripping of gas after shutoff it now wants to choke.
I have a question for people of the CLC, I know you are not supposed to have dirt in your carb. When I was taking off the top of my carb I noticed lots of dirt sitting in the bottom of the bowls. Mind you this is a freshly rebuilt carb. I have a line filter attached to the fuel pump. I have no idea where all this dirt is coming from. Could this be the reason that my idle changes and slows down when I'm sitting at a red light? Clogging my jets and not allowing fuel to flow?
Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on July 29, 2009, 05:35:04 PM
Chris,
As you have discovered, Tim and Ron at Daytona Parts really know their stuff. They will also rebuild your carb if you choose to go that route.
Ron helped me out of a jam when I had carb trouble with my '56 while on vacation. Coincidentally I was staying in New Smyrna Beach just 2 miles from their shop. He told me what my problem was over the phone and I drove over and picked up a part for $20.
Chuck's guy sounds good, too.
Yeah, I'm glad I got in touch with Tim. I'm having more issues now with the carb. Now that I lowered the flaots a little to stop the leaking. The carb sounds like it's starved for fuel. And I lowered these a hair mind you. This is perplexing. I shut off the idle air bye pass which smoothed out the idle at around 600 RPM but it didn't solve my problem of Choking about 1/3 of the way through the gas pedal. I am not sure if I should keep adjusting the mixture screws or go back to the floats?
If you have dirt in your carburetor there is only one place it can come from --- your gas tank. Has it ever been dropped an cleaned, if not, after 50+ years it is past due. The filter should be replaced, it may be full of dirt and be the cause of your engine faltering at about 1/3 throttle, carry an extra filter with you. If the tank has a lot of dirt in it the filter will plug up in short order.
If you have to completely close the idle air bypass to get a proper idle you definitely have something wrong in the carb, could well be dirt. The idle air bypass should not have to be closed all the way.
Do yourself a big favor, get the 1956 Cadillac (not Chilton's) shop manual for your car, if you are going to be working on this vehicle you need it. Along with everything else, there is a great deal of information on disassembling, rebuilding, re-assembling, and properly adjusting your carburetor down to a gnat's eyebrow in the shop manual.
Quote from: Geoff Newcombe #4719 on August 17, 2009, 12:30:02 PM
If you have dirt in your carburetor there is only one place it can come from --- your gas tank. Has it ever been dropped an cleaned, if not, after 50+ years it is past due. The filter should be replaced, it may be full of dirt and be the cause of your engine faltering at about 1/3 throttle, carry an extra filter with you. If the tank has a lot of dirt in it the filter will plug up in short order.
If you have to completely close the idle air bypass to get a proper idle you definitely have something wrong in the carb, could well be dirt. The idle air bypass should not have to be closed all the way.
Do yourself a big favor, get the 1956 Cadillac (not Chilton's) shop manual for your car, if you are going to be working on this vehicle you need it. Along with everything else, there is a great deal of information on disassembling, rebuilding, re-assembling, and properly adjusting your carburetor down to a gnat's eyebrow in the shop manual.
Geoff,
I was adjusting the carb according to the Shop Manuel. The problem is that it seems like the idle changes every time I drive it. I dropped the floats and my carb and it no longer leaks. I dropped them 1/32 on an inch. It seems that the dirt is bypassing my filter and getting into the engine. I don't get how it's getting past the filter. So carrying a extra filter wouldn't help me too much, I was thinking of adding another line filter. I agree with you about dropping the tank and cleaning it up. I have a feeling it may be nasty in there. You know what Geoff? When the floats are at where the manuel says and the gas spills over after shut off there is no choking out 1/3 of the way into the pedal. On the other hand I have a problem with the engine flooding while I'm sitting at a red light. So at this point I have the floats sitting 1/32" lower so that the carb doesn't spill all over my manifold. The gas pedal starves for gas 1/3 of the way into the gas pedal. I'm going to try and figure out what my next move is. The Dirt is definately a problem. I'm going to see if I can't take care of that.
Good deal. In all of the posts (and I've read them all) I never saw the use of the shop manual mentioned once, so I (once again) made the brash assumption that one wasn't being referred to. I had a '66 Caddy with trash in the gas tank, I always carried a spare filter and replaced the spare as soon as I used it, which was fairly often. After a few weeks it seemed to clear itself out --- although I should have dropped the tank I was too busy at the time to do so. I had a new see-thru filter once that had a visible opening or tear in the filter element inside that would, of course, let just about anything through ---- if it happened once it could happen again. I am still of the opinion that the cause of your problems is trash in the carburetor blocking something somewhere and also that your filter may be at least partially blocked and is letting dirt through.
My personal direction at this point would be to get the tank cleaned, take the carburetor apart (again) and make sure it and all of the internal passages are absolutely clear and the floats are not hanging up, change the filter, and keep a spare filter in the glove box. Best of luck getting it straightened out, you will.
Geoff
I put a clear, inline filter back on the frame rail of my '56 just to catch anything before it gets to the pump. If you need a new gas tank or a new fuel sending unit, they are available brand new for about $350 and $90 respectively.
Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on August 17, 2009, 07:30:48 PM
I put a clear, inline filter back on the frame rail of my '56 just to catch anything before it gets to the pump. If you need a new gas tank or a new fuel sending unit, they are available brand new for about $350 and $90 respectively.
I'm going to drop the tank this weekend and clean the tank. Then seal it. Has anyone gone through this? Should I ne dropping off the tank at a radiator specialist to be cleaned and sealed or should I do it myself? I'll read up on it.
Christopher,
"Gas Tank Renew" is a very popular and quality choice. When a fuel tank has as many years on it, as yours, much of the original galvanized coating has gone south. That makes it subject to rust from the ever present moisture. The process they offer does a complete job of cleaning and re-coating the tank. It's not cheap, but unless you are 6 years old, you will never have to do it before you say goodbye to such things as collecting and restoring fine automobiles. Perhaps someone else has another opinion, but that is mine.
Kelly Martin
Check out Renu's prices if you don't want to do it yourself.
It's probably cheaper to buy a new tank when you include shipping both ways.
Quote from: kelly on August 18, 2009, 11:45:17 PM
Christopher,
"Gas Tank Renew" is a very popular and quality choice. When a fuel tank has as many years on it, as yours, much of the original galvanized coating has gone south. That makes it subject to rust from the ever present moisture. The process they offer does a complete job of cleaning and re-coating the tank. It's not cheap, but unless you are 6 years old, you will never have to do it before you say goodbye to such things as collecting and restoring fine automobiles. Perhaps someone else has another opinion, but that is mine.
Kelly Martin
Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to look into that this morning. I'll compare it to buying a new one. Otto, I guess I won't know how bad it is till I drop the tank but at this point I've been cleaning out my carb fuel bowls and then running the car for tests and half an hour later when I take the carb cover and floats off again the bowls have dirt presant again. I am going to change the filter again today in the line so I can get rid of the rest of the gasoline that's in the tank. Thanks for the suggestions. ;D
Quote from: Christopher Petti on August 19, 2009, 09:03:28 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to look into that this morning. I'll compare it to buying a new one. Otto, I guess I won't know how bad it is till I drop the tank but at this point I've been cleaning out my carb fuel bowls and then running the car for tests and half an hour later when I take the carb cover and floats off again the bowls have dirt presant again. I am going to change the filter again today in the line so I can get rid of the rest of the gasoline that's in the tank. Thanks for the suggestions. ;D
Chris,
Not sure if you have also check at and/or replace the fuel line. I was not able to tell the condition in my case do to the original undercoating, but after removing the line a found it was totally deteriorated from the inside and actually broke in several areas while removing it. I send the tank to a local radiator shop for repairs and to coat the inside. Just as a thought..!
Quote from: Jose Gomez CLC #23082 on August 19, 2009, 09:39:15 AM
Chris,
Not sure if you have also check at and/or replace the fuel line. I was not able to tell the condition in my case do to the original undercoating, but after removing the line a found it was totally deteriorated from the inside and actually broke in several areas while removing it. I send the tank to a local radiator shop for repairs and to coat the inside. Just as a thought..!
Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the whole setup. Oi! :-\
Chris,
I encountered the same problem with particles entering the carb, even after replacing the standard fuel filter. They just don't stop the small particles from getting past them. After considerable research I removed the fuel tank to clean and reseal it. I looked in the tank and saw lots of small particles but the inside of the tank looked relatively sound. I took it to a local radiator shop and he boiled it and cautioned me not to seal it with anything. He said he has seen plenty of "sealed" gas tanks that eventually peeled inside and caused more problems than the sealant solved. He said there wasn't any rust in my tank that was the cause of the dirt particles. He suspected it came from gas that was purchased over the years from old gas tanks that were deteriorating. (Apparently they have been replaced by federal mandate). I was able to reuse my tank but he said if it was too far gone it should be replaced.
I also replaced the fuel lines because I had the tools and was able to do it with relative ease. I installed a universal fuel filter and electric fuel pump on the frame below the rear passenger door. It's not stock but the filter protects the pump and the pump delivers a consistent supply of fuel to the carb. I removed the stock fuel pump but I've been told there are electric fuel pumps that work in conjunction with the stock unit, thus the look of the stock unit remains.
If/when you remove the fuel tank make sure you capture and retain the small brass ferrule that is "in-line" with the fuel tank and the fuel line fitting. If you don't reinstall this you will have fuel leaking everywhere. (My recent experience!) Anyway, the project of removing, cleaning and reinstalling the fuel tank was much easier than I expected. I would rate it as easy to moderate. I've attached a photo of the ferrule.
Good luck.
Quote from: Eric Falk on August 19, 2009, 03:47:13 PM
Chris,
I encountered the same problem with particles entering the carb, even after replacing the standard fuel filter. They just don't stop the small particles from getting past them. After considerable research I removed the fuel tank to clean and reseal it. I looked in the tank and saw lots of small particles but the inside of the tank looked relatively sound. I took it to a local radiator shop and he boiled it and cautioned me not to seal it with anything. He said he has seen plenty of "sealed" gas tanks that eventually peeled inside and caused more problems than the sealant solved. He said there wasn't any rust in my tank that was the cause of the dirt particles. He suspected it came from gas that was purchased over the years from old gas tanks that were deteriorating. (Apparently they have been replaced by federal mandate). I was able to reuse my tank but he said if it was too far gone it should be replaced.
I also replaced the fuel lines because I had the tools and was able to do it with relative ease. I installed a universal fuel filter and electric fuel pump on the frame below the rear passenger door. It's not stock but the filter protects the pump and the pump delivers a consistent supply of fuel to the carb. I removed the stock fuel pump but I've been told there are electric fuel pumps that work in conjunction with the stock unit, thus the look of the stock unit remains.
If/when you remove the fuel tank make sure you capture and retain the small brass ferrule that is "in-line" with the fuel tank and the fuel line fitting. If you don't reinstall this you will have fuel leaking everywhere. (My recent experience!) Anyway, the project of removing, cleaning and reinstalling the fuel tank was much easier than I expected. I would rate it as easy to moderate. I've attached a photo of the ferrule.
Good luck.
Eric thanks for your advice, I saw your post about it just yesterday. You know what, I am so sick of waiting for parts in the mail. As soon as I know I'm going to do a procedure I order the parts and get everything ready so that I can get the car up dismantled then put back together. I bought the new tank because I figured that it couldn't hurt. My car has the original everything. I have been getting a lot of filth in the tank. it's nasty. I was wondering about bad gas myself. My dad and I were talking that one over and that sure is a good possability. Now you have me thinking. Maybe I shouldn't have got the new setup. On the other hand maybe it just needed to be cleaned. Well I'm going to keep changing my filter in hopes that I can catch more crap from getting to the carb. Until I get the new gas tank. It's just irritiating, well I'm going to drop it on Sunday and see whats up. And I will make sure to remember what you said about the ferrule. Thanks Erik.