I have been looking at a 68 Eldorado and now a 69 Eldorado. I like the hide away headlamps in the 68 but I love the red leather upholstry in the 69. Which ever one I buy, I want to restore to original condition. Can anyone tell me if these two cars were in identical condition, which one would be more desirable or valueable once properly restored. They are both selling for the same price and I'm having a hell of a time deciding which one to buy. Maybe some one here can help. Thanks
1968 is the finest overall year for FWD Eldorados.
1969 lost the classic hideaway headlights and fussied up the grille. 68 interiors beat the 67's hands down.
1969 retains the 1st generation profile and the bodies are virtually identical. 68's have much better looking wheelcovers.
Weephee,
BJM is right on. Of course I'm prejudiced. LOL.
Bob
I believe 69 was standard front disc brakes and they were also the common single piston floating calipers that were used till 78 so the common wear parts are easy to find. I think the front wheel bearings also changed so again easier to find. 68 could have been drums or optional disc. The disc setup was a 4 piston caliper that was unique to the 67-68 E body cars. I have been told that its getting very difficult to find the brake parts and bearings, drums being even worse. Talked to a toro owner that was looking into a very expensive drum sleeve process because he was unable to locate new drums. They are often listed but when you call to order they are out of stock and dont know when they are getting more. I dont currently own one of these cars so I have not personally attempted to source these parts myself. My comments are just based on what I have read on sites like this and talking to owners in person. Your results may vary. Just throwing it out there. A 68 turned up in a local u pull it lot. I got there 6 hours after they opened and all 4 drums and the horizontal shocks were already gone. Yard guy said there was a guy waiting when he opened.
TJ - I could use some parts off that 68.
TJ makes some very good points. The 69 was the 3rd year for the Eldorado, and a lot of issues were sorted out by then. The disc brakes. The 66 - 67 Toronado/Eldorados should never have been released without disc brakes.
I believe the 2 reasons Cadillac went to non pop up headlights were manufacturing cost and lower maintenance/costs by owners. The 69's still look nice, butnot as nice as the eggcrate grille-hidden headlight 68's with the turn signals on the corners.
From what you are telling me Mr Hopland is that the disc brakes for 1968 were a one year issue. Prior to that the eldo had drums on all four wheels and after 68 they went to a different disc brake or caliper. Is that correct. If so, and i need parts could I change the calipers to the 1969 style without reinventing the car. Thanks so much for your help.
I thought discs were a option on the 67 but not real common. I think they were also an option in 68 but most were ordered with discs because by that time word had gotten out how much better the discs were. Brakes was one of the things that got real poor reviews on the 66 toros so I guess many were shocked to see that cadillac just did not make the disc standard from the get go.
I think the rear drums were the same till 75 but I am not sure. 76 rear disc became standard on the eldos (and I think remained that way till the end?). I dont believe rear disc was available on any cads till 76. The -70 had rear leaf springs the 71- was coils.
Yes its possible to convert the earlier cars to the later model discs. I have been told that you need the control arms and such from a 69 or 70 eldo or toro. The 71- frame changed so those parts dont fit. Im not sure why the control arms are needed but thats what I was told.
And again I dont currently own one of these or claim to be an expert so dont make any decisions based on my memory.
The 68 is no longer listed on the junkyards website so I dont know if its still there. It looked nice from a distance but it was a $99 paint job over rust. Interior was really beat. Last time I was there much of the trim was gone. Most of the smaller parts were gone from under the hood.
TJ,
Discs were an option in 67,STANDARD in 68.
Bob
The ’68 Eldo came standard with the disc brakes. I believe the four piston calipers were also used on the Corvette. I know the pads are frequently on the shelf at the parts stores. The numbers on those are DR 1 or D1 IIRC depending on brand. Rock Auto shows the Raybestos part number as PGD1. The brake booster was also used on the commercial chassis IIRC. But are still rare.
The front wheel bearings are ’67 ’68 Eldorado, and ’66, ’67 Toroanodo only. I’ve had good luck repacking my front wheel bearings. But you can convert to the ’69 ’70 bearings and calipers by changing the knuckle and maybe the ball joints. The ’67 â€" ’70 used ball joint number 393367 and the ’69 â€" ’72 used ball joint number 231244 but only on knuckles with the number 407144 or 407145 cast on it. Control arms are the same ’67 â€" ’70.
I put over 300,000 miles on my ’68 ELDO as a daily driver. Finding parts are a little more difficult but it is do-able.
I find the ALC which is standard on the Eldorado (’67 and up) requires more maintenance than the brakes and wheel bearings. Still do-able.
Glen
So you could get drums in 68 as an option? Im fairly certain the car in the junkyard was a 68. I guess it could have been a 67 with a 472 swapped into it, I did not look that close.
I just looked at some pics, the one I saw was a 68 because it had the turn signals up above the bumper. Maybe it was the donor car for a 67 upgrade?. I see that the disc upgrade on a 67 was only $105 option. Thats not bad on a $6500 car. Its the $500 sunroof option on the $2000 car that was a rare thing to see.
I'm not sure why the dual piston calipers were maligned, if they were. I know from working next to the Porsche Master Technician for years in our dealership - that Porsche uses at least 2 piston calipers and in some cases 4.
I think the logic is similar to a 4 valve engine in that there is more surface area to do the work as opposed to a larger single piston. I would think they worked pretty well - spreading force over a larger rotor area.
I would also say that don't let the disc brake issue determine your decision. If and when I get my 68 Eldorado - it will for collector interest only and you just start the search for back up parts. I won't drive my thirsty Eldorado more then 3000 miles per year. With maintenance disc brake rotors and calipers under these collector condition ought to last 10 to 20 years.
Going back to your original question..."which one would be more desirable or valueable once properly restored."
It would be the 68, hands down.
The hidden headlights, the disc brakes, the first year 472, the interior, all combined make it the winner. If you look at prices and values over, say, the last year, you'll see the 68 remains the most sought-after between the two. I did a LOT of research on the 1967-1970 Eldorado for the better part of 2009.
The 68 was the front runner, followed by the 67 because it was the first of its kind, then the 70 because of the big 500 motor and then, in last place, the 69.
That's what I discovered anyway, and I tend to agree. And, in my opinion, the front disc brakes make a huge difference!
Thanks Steve. That helps me make up my mind. All the previous comments also help me once I get the car home and start restoring it. Thanks all.
Quote from: Steve W on January 04, 2010, 07:07:01 PM
The 68 was the front runner, followed by the 67 because it was the first of its kind, then the 70 because of the big 500 motor and then, in last place, the 69.
That fits what I have seen also.
It's amazing but I think we are all in agreement!
I agree with the order of preference. The 1968 first; but then I am prejudice since I own a ’68. I’ve never been fond of the ’67 because of the turn signals in the bumper vice the front of the fender; the exposed windshield wipers; and the round rear view mirror.
Glen
Quote from: TJ Hopland on January 03, 2010, 11:42:58 PMBrakes was one of the things that got real poor reviews on the 66 toros so I guess many were shocked to see that cadillac just did not make the disc standard from the get go.
Since Lincoln made front disc brakes standard in '65, it's hard to understand why Cadillac didn't follow suit in '66 and harder to understand why they waited until '69 to make them standard in all models.
I too own a '68 and did a lot of research prior to beginning my quest to find the example I ended up buying.
Here are some basic differences that put the '68 at the top of my list.
The '68 was still the gentleman's hotrod that the '67 was with some styling and improvements and a bigger engine. The '69 and '70 models were more mainstream Cadillac and lost the 'grit' of the frist two years.
The turn signals/parking lamps were moved to the leading edge of the front fenders in '68. PERFECT! The '67s should have had them (imho). The piece of metal on the '67s (where the lamps are on the '68s) looks like an afterthought.
The beautiful slotted wheelcovers were ONLY on the '67s and '68s as were the disappearing headlights. Both were gone in '69. The vinyl roof in '67 and '68 was full (to the edges of the roof) whereas the last two years of the run had the 'halo' style roof. It's not bad looking but I prefer the full vinyl roof.
The taillights on the '68s were a work of art and an improvement (imho) over the '67s taillight (lenses, that is). More of the lense is visable.
The '68 interior is so gorgeous and has the rich rosewood paneling missing on the '67 models. The instrument panel is stilll the full style (all the way across from door to door) on the '68s. The '69s have an Instrument panel that is geared more for the driver.
The grille is more fine textured on the '69s. I prefer the more open eggcrate grille on the '68.
The hood was lengthened to hide the windshield wipers beginning in '68.
For those who don't care for the vents on the rear deck of the '67s, the '68s don't have them.
And of course, the 472 debuted in '68! The 429 is no slouch but the 472 is a screamer!
Considering all that one ends up getting in the '68 model year on the Eldorado, it's a no brainer it is the best (imho) of all four years of that body style.
Greg McDonnell
CLC #20841
'68 Eldorado (almost fully optioned) Topaz Firemist with Sandalwood vinyl top and Sandalwood leather interior.
Aw man! All these responses and not a single photo!!
Pictures are there now, Chris! Thanks for reminding me! I call my '68 "The Spaceship"!
Greg, please put a plate of some kind in that hole in the front bumper. It's dragging down the whole effect!
;D I agree, it does look a bit empty in the front bumper, doesn't it! I want one of those simple tags the dealers provided if the car was sold in a state where front license plates weren't used (like here in AL).
The photos I posted were taken the day the car was delivered. It had just rolled out of the truck when I snapped those pics. :)
Greg
I'm just giving you grief. Those blank-out plates appear on ebay fairly regularly.
In the meantime, find a nice Cadillac crest plate or Cadillac script plate and put it on.
Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on January 07, 2010, 08:42:40 PM
Those blank-out plates appear on ebay fairly regularly.
Hey Greg,
If I can find the seller's name for this plate I'll send it to you, it was an eBay purchase. I was surprised at the quality of the plate when I received it, excellent finish and extremely well done (especially for only $20 or so). I believe he has a few different style plates available.
Quote from: weephee on January 02, 2010, 10:28:15 PM
I have been looking at a 68 Eldorado and now a 69 Eldorado. I like the hide away headlamps in the 68 but I love the red leather upholstry in the 69. Which ever one I buy, I want to restore to original condition. Can anyone tell me if these two cars were in identical condition, which one would be more desirable or valueable once properly restored. They are both selling for the same price and I'm having a hell of a time deciding which one to buy. Maybe some one here can help. Thanks
please buy the 69 i had a 68 parts for the 68 is hard to find