I have a 59 Limousine with an ID plate that someone may be able to explain for me. It is located to the left of the standard ID plate on the drivers side cowl. It is a small plate with
SO. 90627 and under that is stamped the date 5-7-59.
Can anyone help?
Graham.
Melbourne, Australia.
Could be "Special Order", number and date.
It is definitely a "Special Order" car. Can you tell us what is "special" about it (color, trim, accessories ?) Some pics would be nice too.
Quote from: veesixteen on January 15, 2010, 09:18:07 AM
It is definitely a "Special Order" car. Can you tell us what is "special" about it (color, trim, accessories ?) Some pics would be nice too.
Hi Yann,
I don't know that there is anything all that different with it. It does have cruise control and the interior is different to most I have seen. It is a grey cord very much like my 1960 Limousine rear seat.
This car has both front and rear seats the same instead of the leather front and fabric rear seat. It looks to be original and in very good condition. It has the divider window also.
I purchased it from a woman in Texas. It was part of a marriage split up, it only arrived here last week. It has been rose pink at some stage a long time ago. The original color was black as indicated on the ID plate, 10. The pink paint was a really good job and was complete, even inside the doors and door jambs. I guess there is a possability the pink may have been a facory "redo". It may have been finnised in black and then changed at the factory. I think the black paint on it now is the third paint job.
Thanks for your help.
Graham.
Wonder if the Fleetwood/Eldorado wheelcovers and powered vents were special order ? Never saw a limo with those options !
It could be that the car was ordered by him with a few extras, and ridden in by her. Only he was the driver and she sat in the back with the divider up !!! :D
Gorgeous car though. Could I be so nosy as to what you paid for it?
Fins
Perhaps the division window is the special order item. The car is a 6723, which I thought was a seven passenger sedan without division. Maybe not.
You have answered my question. What is "special" about he car is that it was built as a sedan (style 6723) but is fitted with the division glass of the imperial (style 6733). I guess if you got a hold of the factory build sheet, that fact would be shown, as well as the optional electric ventipanes. Lovely car, BTW.
Note also that the stock 1959 "Series 67" cars (called the Seventy-Five Sedan and Limousine) had the regular '59 wheel covers and the regular rear grille with a single row of "bullets".
Thank you all for opening my eyes! I have been calling it a Limousine when in fact it is a 75 series sedan. I should have known this from the VIN 59R88860 the "R" of course indicating it is a sedan. If it was an "S" it would be a Limousine. I just assumed it was a Limo as it has the divider window. I was unaware of the S.O. tag until it arrived this week and had not noticed the tag on any other car here in Australia.
I have requested a vehicle invoice and build sheet from GM Media Archive. I will post the results when it is available.
I have been searching the net for body tag accessories decoding, can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks again,
Graham.
Quote from: bnorman on January 16, 2010, 12:22:22 AM
Wonder if the Fleetwood/Eldorado wheelcovers and powered vents were special order ? Never saw a limo with those options !
How can you tell the car has powered vents from the pic? what am I missing?
thanks Brett
Two switches on the passenger front door--power locks and power vents .
I thought the division WAS the difference between a limo and sedan - what else is there?
Quote from: Brett Cottel CLC#25735 on January 16, 2010, 08:18:19 PM
How can you tell the car has powered vents from the pic? what am I missing?
It's also what the door is missing... there is no crank under the wind-wing.
Graham,
Beautiful car.
K = Air conditioner
H = Heater
J = Rear radio
E = E-Z Eye Glass
N = Power Vent Regulators
HTH,
Ralph
Stewart: The limousine has a leather front seat, sometimes not adjustable, or as adjustable. The backrest is structured to keep the chauffeur sitting up straight. The front compartment is ususally dark blue or black, or whatever color matches the leather seat. Moreover, it would not have the woodgrained dash, and other decorations that would more resemble an owner driven sedan, the limousine front compartment would be more austere.
The I.D. plate looks very familiar to me. I believe the S.O. stands for "shop order". A very similar plate appears on the cowl of my 1960 Buick Electra 225 convertible, which was built by GM Styling (with unique styling features) for ex-GM President Harlow H. Curtice as his personal car. In my car, the plate reads "S.O. 90681" and the date is "1-27-60".
The number sequence of S.O. 90627 being issued eight months earlier is consistent.
To see the sequential "shop order" numbers of some other unique GM cars, take a look at the website "www.carofthecentury.com".
While this I.D. plate clearly indicates that some feature or features of the car are non-stock, it does not tell you what they are. (I had the good fortune of seeing the car I now own in 1972, and talking to the then-owner, who bought the car in 1962 and knew the entire history.) You will have some interesting historical research to do. Good luck!
I would be interested to know about your Electra convertible--what are the special features ? I have a 59 Electra convertible.
Regarding the special features of my 1960 Buick with the S.O. plate, the unique features include:
1. Fins are different from standard 1960 fins -- they are pointed at the ends like 1959 fins (rather than rounded like 1960 fins), but with no chrome moldings.
2. Because of the difference in the fins, the entire rear quarter panels are sculptured differently. The edge of the deck lid is also contoured different than the standard car.
3. Insignia on the deck lid is not a tri-shield -- it is a unique emblem that resembles a modernized version of the Buick crest used in the early '50s.
4. Taillights are also unique -- horizontally mounted (rather than round) but almost pointed on the outer ends. (Some observers describe them as arrow-shaped.) The taillights have no part numbers -- they were specially made for this car. (I have seen pictures of a styling prototype 1960 four-door hardtop that shows a similar rear-end treatment. So the rear styling of my car resembles one of the alternative designs that was considered but not used for the 1960 model.)
5. Ventiports on front fenders are rectangular rather than the "flattened C" shape used on the standard 1960 Buick.
6. Chrome "GM STYLING" rectangular plaque on both front fenders.
7. Unique interior, with narrow pleats on the seat upholstery, door hardware that looks more like a 1962 Cadillac, hidden storage compartments in each front door armrest (the armrests open on concealed hinges), and a red light on the interior of each front door that flashes when the door is open.
Much of the special body work appears to have been done in fiberglass.
I don't mean to take up space on a CLC website with discussion of a Buick, but hopefully this is of interest to readers because it reflects GM practices of a different era when "car guys" were firmly in charge.
Incidentally, under the leadership of Mr. Curtice (who was GM President from 1953 through 1958), GM became the first U.S. company to record over $1 billion of annual net profits. So I guess nobody complained about the cost of creating a one-of-a-kind Buick for him to drive.
Thanks so much for sharing your car's details ! Is there a link with any pictures ?
Quote from: Richard Sills - CLC #936 on January 21, 2010, 12:43:52 PM
... I don't mean to take up space on a CLC website with discussion of a Buick...
bnorman and I are of the same mind - I think it would be okay to take up space with some pictures as well. ;D
Yes, please post pictures!
Reply to Richard,
I have yet to see in print the words shop order. SO stands for special order. On prewar cars it shows on invoices as SBO standing for special body order. Shop order just doesn't make sense. However, if someone can show me in print the words shop order, I would appreciate it.
Also, the SO # sequence of your Buick & the 59 in question shoud not be related. As I understand it, the SO # sequence started with #1 at the beginning of the production run each year. It did not carry over to the next year.
HTH, Bob
The designation "shop order" was derived from the website I mentioned. That website was created by a relative of the late Harley Earl who has devoted considerable effort to preserving the legacy of GM Styling.
The website identified certain other cars with "SO" numbers as follows:
1957 Corvette SS (XP-64) SO 90158
1958 Corvette Special "Double Bubble" (XP-700) SO 90368
Firebird III (XP-73) SO 90238
1959 Oldsmobile F-88 III (XP-88) SO 90388
1960 Chevrolet Stingray Corvette (XP-87) SO 90256 and 90889
As you see, these numbers are progressively sequential, and do not start over each year. In fact, it wouldn't be logical to think that over 90,000 special order cars would be made in each year.
I can't personally vouch for the accuracy of all the information on that website, but I was intrigued to find that the progression of "SO" numbers of the listed cars is consistent with the number on my car. It is also consistent with the number on Graham's car, except that the first SO number given for the Corvette XP-87 (which is listed as a 1960 model) is earlier than the number on Graham's car. (Since there were apparently two versions of that Corvette concept car, perhaps the first version was produced in 1959, earlier than Graham's car.)
Alas, there is no GM Styling Studio to which we can address these questions. I am not sure how much of this information remains in the GM archives, given that much of the old information was apparently "digitized" by people who were assigned the task of reducing the amount of space consumed by old records.
Bob, to respond to your specific point, I owned a 1967 Cadillac with a special order interior. On the data plate of that car, the interior trim code was shown as "000" to signify the non-standard interior. But there was no special sequential number assigned to this car as a result of the special order interior. Similarly, I have seen a 1941 Cadillac that left the factory with a non-standard paint color, and on that car, the data plate indicated "SO" where the paint code would ordinarily be, but again there was no unique sequential number assigned to the car. (Probably in that context, the "SO" did stand for special order.)
Some of the details may be lost to history. but it is interesting and useful to preserve as much of it as we possibly can.
I don't have any pictures of my car that can be posted electronically, but you can see it on the Central Penn Region CLC website ("www.centralpennclc.org"). First, click on 2008 event photos, and then click on "2008 Burn Foundation Concours". The first picture in this series is my 1959 Cadillac Series 62 4-window sedan, and the last picture in this series is my 1960 Buick. The Buick was also featured in an article in the October 2008 issue of the Buick Bugle (monthly publication of the Buick Club of America). It appeared on the cover of Old Cars Weekly on July 26, 2001, and was featured in a subsequent article in Old Cars Weekly written by CLC member Angelo Van Bogart.
I have a 1956 Sixty Special with a special order, full leather interior with Eldorado floor mats and the data plate says "SO 6721" for the trim. 6721 is also the body number.
Jim,
On your car, does the "SO" designation appear on the regular data plate, or is it a completely separate piece, as illustrated in the picture of Graham's '59 Cadillac? In the picture Graham supplied, and also on my Buick, the plate containing the "SO" information is a completely separate piece, and the "SO" number is followed by a date.
Richard
Richard,
I know what Jims going to say, but I'll let him answer your question.
The latest SO tag I have in my collection is off a 52 Fleetwood that had a full leather interior. The SO # is the same as the body #.
Most of my research has been on 1941 cars. At that time, the SO on the tag eliminated BOTH the paint & trim code no matter which one was the SO.
I'm also aware of what happened in the 60's with the 000 codes.
I have never followed #'s on show cars, so I can't comment on your theory.
I have never seen a separate tag like on Grahams car. Once the invoice was reduced to a line on a page, it seems the info is VERY limited.
We need input from someone else that has such a tag.
Bob
Bob is correct. The regular trim tag lists the body color (Mandan Red/Alpine White) codes then shows the "SO6721" for the trim number
I took a tag off a 57 Fleetwood being parted out with similar full leater (Silver with red/white leather) and it was the same way
I have never seen a seperate tag like that. A friend had a 59 coupe with SO interior and its trim tag was like mine.
Another "oddity" on the cowl tag... next to the "BODY" designation is a "DC" and then the body number. Wouldn't this normally just be the body number, no letters? And for my wild guess, could they have marked "DC" for the divider, as in Dual Cowl?
Quote from: Richard Sills - CLC #936 on January 21, 2010, 11:44:41 AM
The I.D. plate looks very familiar to me. I believe the S.O. stands for "shop order". A very similar plate appears on the cowl of my 1960 Buick Electra 225 convertible, which was built by GM Styling (with unique styling features) for ex-GM President Harlow H. Curtice as his personal car. In my car, the plate reads "S.O. 90681" and the date is "1-27-60".
The number sequence of S.O. 90627 being issued eight months earlier is consistent.
To see the sequential "shop order" numbers of some other unique GM cars, take a look at the website "www.carofthecentury.com".
While this I.D. plate clearly indicates that some feature or features of the car are non-stock, it does not tell you what they are. (I had the good fortune of seeing the car I now own in 1972, and talking to the then-owner, who bought the car in 1962 and knew the entire history.) You will have some interesting historical research to do. Good luck!
Hello Richard,
Your post makes a lot of sense, especially when I read the artilce from "www.carofthecentury.com" that you advised I should visit.
Somwhere along the line it seems this car has been either pulled of the line or taken out of stock and had some changes to the standard 75 series sedan. I assume it is the interior, divider and vent windows etc that have been ordered by the original owner.
What a great car you have with the Buick convertible! Just magnificent!
Graham.
Lou,
I think you're onto something. The separate tag is very different from the standard tag & there's no double SO. They start with a regular production car. Interesting.
Bob
Here is another bit of data.
I worked on a 57 Fleetwood that had a normal paint code (50 Dakota Red) and SO trim. The trim number and the body number were the same with SO in front of the trim number.
Now on the 59 & 60 Brougham's, Pinin farina added a second tag for the body number and their information in the same location as your tag. The photo attached is of a reference shot I have of a 59 Brougham tag.
That location looks to be allocated for a second tag.
David
Quote from: South_paw on January 21, 2010, 10:12:20 PM
Here's a customer "SO" tag from a '56 Eldo. Notice the SO with the body number in the trim spot and the all important staples at the bottom of the tag.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.webband.com%2F%7Eebay%2F56cad%2F76.JPG&hash=601cbd45fd673b35d2e65963494827e9906e845b)
It's a small world! What you have there Lou is the ID plate from my 56 Eldorado that I purchased a couple of weeks ago from a guy in Spokane. It is now on the way to Aberdeen to ship here to Australia.
I had not noticed the "SO" number on that one either.
Thank you for pointing it out,
Graham.
Graham,
I think we're gonna call you the SO kid. LOL. When you get the invoice on the 56, it WILL tell you what the SO was. The invoice on the 59 may tell you nothing.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on January 21, 2010, 11:11:13 PM
Graham,
I think we're gonna call you the SO kid. LOL. When you get the invoice on the 56, it WILL tell you what the SO was. The invoice on the 59 may tell you nothing.
Bob
G'day Bob,
I am on a mission to get all the "good" Caddys over here so you guys will have something nice to drive when you visit!!!!
I did get the invoice details from GM Media Archive on both cars but unfortuately the 59 showed nothing unusual.
The 56 Eldorado has a special order interior. Other than that it looks a standard Eldo with standard extras.
Thanks,
Graham.
Richard, I believe you are refering to Harley's grandson. I have corresponded with him on a few occasions and while I think he is doing a very good job of keeping Harley's memory alive, I have found him to be not as knowledgeable as many CLC members who post on this board, especially insofar as Cadillac history, facts and figures are concerned. I agree with you as to the meaning of the abbreviations, "SO" and "SBO". I have studied Cadillac history for the last 54 years and never come across "Shop Order" for the abbreviation, "SO". I would need to see it in print, in factory literature, to give some credence to that equally plausible explanation. How about "CKD"? Is it "Crated, knocked down" or "Completely knocked down"; I've seen both used.
Yann,
Sorry to correct you, but I'm the guy that made the post about SO & SBO. Richard called it shop order.
Bob