I have been following the discussions on upgrading 1958 and early 60s Caddys to dual master cylinder power brakes. I am wondering if anyone has accomplished this on a 57? I am fine with drum brakes, but brake failure is always in the back of my mind with that single master.
It was on my mind too for my 59 until after the single reservoir system blew out while backing out of my garage last summer! Lucky for my son and I it was only on the driveway so the E brake worked fine. After that it went from on our minds to on the top of the to do list.
Call Midwest Power Booster as they can hook you up with a bolt on solution I am told. They did for me and our 59.......Just be very careful though......once you have that booster off the firewall you will want to clean the firewall up a bit......and then the wiper motor looks a bit dirty so you take that off to clean it up......then your Heater/AC box stands out like a sore thumb so you remove that too......then the engine itself looks real bad and you decide to pull that too.......well....you get the picture.......and if not.....here it is..... ;D
Now this is a lot of work to do the brakes!!!!!!! ::)
'57 was the last year of the Hydro-Vac booster with the master remotely mounted on the frame. I'm not aware of any dual master cylinder for this setup.
Hahaha so true Jeff.
I also need to accomplish this on my 52. Leaving a Friends place in Smarr, Ga my single cylinder gave out. I drove her all the way to my Exit in SC, about 3 1/2 hours. We had a tow truck waiting. Those old Ebrakes are damn good along with downshifting.
Hi Ed, is your set up the same as mine? I just posted a couple pictures in the other thread. You posted on my thread that Jamco Suspension said the stopped making the conversion but It sounds like they may be bringing the system back ;D with a few upgrades. I talked to a Brandon at Jamco, so what I would like to do is get some 57 and 58 guys calling them to ask about it. I don't know what 57 look like but here is a picture of my 58 single booster/single M/C. The 58's are mounted to the duct work that is mounted to the firewall. Thanks Frank Torticill
My 57 is currently in the shop so I can't get a look at my setup, but from memory it looks different than the picture you posted. I will check it when I get my car back. If it will help, I would be happy to call Brandon and ask about it.
Ed
Sounds good. Bummer that they are not the same. Call them and see what they say and let me know. Take care. Frank T.
Re: Dual m/c conversion. I just completed a dual m/c conversion on a '57 Buick Super. It had the TredelVac, single m/c, remote vacume system. Power Brake Sales in Sacramento, CA supplied the bits--I did the work. Total cost was under $225 for all the bits. Everything was bolt on--no machining. The company has a large variety of conversion systems. You can contact Power Brake Sales @916.446-7829 or www.powerbrakes.com
Again--this is NOT a Tredle-Vac. It's a Bendix Hydrovac. There are threads on other sites regarding the Hydrovac and dual masters: http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/forums/brake-tech/1632-hydrovac-unit-dual-mc.html
Essentially, others have tried it and it either won't work or really can't be done.
the Bendix unit pictured on the bench in FTCHOME's post (mar 24) looks identical to the unit I removed from my Buick (a 57). The major difference is the Cad unit mounts vertically and the Buick is mounted horizontally. But even the push rod and clevis appear to be the same. Buick used both Morain and Bendix units and both were of the same external dimensions. Depending on the brake pedal linkage under the dash, it might be possible to mount a new booster and dual m/c to the air box, as I did.
The photo in that post is of a '58 tredle vac. Cadillac first used the tredle vac in 1956, switched back to the Hydro-vac with the master cylinder mounted on the frame for 1957 and back to the tredle vac in 1958.
I think the conversion to a dual master with a TreadleVac is pretty straightforward. With a HydroVac, I think it is nigh impossible (or at least a fool's errand). Too bad for me, since I have a 54 with a HydroVac. I have successfully converted earlier non-power brake Cads to dual master. But I am stumped about how it can be done on the 54. In fact, I am not planning to try. Instead, I will try to make the stock system as "bullet-proof" as I can by sleeving all of the wheel cylinders and the master cylinder, using stainless brake lines, new hoses, etc. The primary risk in a single system is internal rust that damages lines and cylinders, leading to sudden failures. So the stainless lines and brass sleeves should minimize that.
Not as good as a dual system, but it will be the best that I can make it.
SO, I take it that ALL 57 and 58's mount different. 57 on the frame area and 58 on the heating ducts?
With the exception of the 1958 Eldorado Brougham--YES! 1956 was a tredle-vac; ALL 1957's had the Hydro-Vac; ALL 1958's and newer have the Tredle-vac.
1962 was the first year of the dual-master.
Thank you Walter..... good to know. Frank
Frank advised that Caddy Daddy has a kit that allegedly converts a 57 to dual master cylinder. Here is the link to the product:
http://www.caddydaddy.com/BRAKE-ITEMS/Disc-Brake-Conversion-Kits/1957-Cadillac-Power-Brake-Conversion-Booster-Master-Cylinder-p6727.html
There are 3 photos on the site showing the kit, and in response to my inquiry the owner said that instructions would be posted in the near future.
From the look of it, you would certainly take a hit on the look of originality. Hopefully, someone will give it a try and post their findings. At this point, I am not yet adventurous enough to be a guinea pig.
If anyone is interested, installation instructions are now posted for the dual master conversion kit:
http://www.caddydaddy.com/BRAKE-ITEMS/Booster-Master-Cylinder-Units/Complete-Units/1957-Cadillac-Power-Brake-Conversion-Booster-Master-Cylinder-p6727.html
Doesn't look like something for the faint of heart. Once it's done, there's no going back.
I figured the original master would have to be removed. There's no way to keep the original setup AND have a dual master.
How does the 57 system work? Does anyone have a diagram of the booster and the master? I need to get the brakes working on my friends 57. I don't even know where the master clynder is? The system on the 57 is very strange. Any help is apriciated.
Thanks
-Gavin
The master is mounted on the frame on the driver's side. Jack up the car and follow the brake lines--you'll see it. It has a splash shield covering it.
Fluid is forced from the mc to the booster and the booster amplifies the pressure and it is expelled to the wheel cylinders through the brass distributor on the top of the frame on the driver's side. It was the last time Cadillac utilized the Bendix Hydro-Vac system. http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/bendix/erickson/ for some different info.
If you don't yet have a copy of the shop manual, do yourself a favor and get one.
How do you bleed one of these systems? The pedal on my 57 goes to the floor right now. Car sat for a few years. Any ideas?
Thanks
-Gavin
Booster may be shot. You first bleed the booster, then the wheel cylinders. Start at the fitting on the top of the booster, then the one on the lower part of the booster, then farthest to closest wheel cylinders.
Does the booster run on vaccum at all? Or just hydraulic? Does the original master have a risidual valve built in? I wonder if fluid rolling back into the master is common because of the wheel clynders being higher than M/C. I just need to get the car out of the driveway and too my house.
Thanks for the quick responses.
-Gavin
Yes, the large chamber to the rear of the unit against the firewall is the vacuum chamber. Basically, depressing the pedal forces fluid from the master into the booster where the fluid unseats a check valve allowing the vacuum within the booster to force the fluid back out to the cylinders under pressure.
The master doesn't have a check valve.
Is there a procedure for removing a rusted bleederscrew. The bleeders on the booster are not stripped but rusted. I really don't want to snap them. Any ideas?
Thanks
-Gavin
Soak them with PB Blaster? Really sounds like it's time to have the booster redone.
You CAN bypass the booster by running the line from the master directly to the brake line distributor on the frame. Chances are you won't have any power assist or very little even if you can bleed that booster.