Does anyone know of a part number or manufacturer of solid lifters. They have been remove from www.flatcaddy.com.
Also the following is on Ebay if anyone knows of an origin of period lifters that would be most desirable.
$ 500.00 seems crazy money for used as is.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161426465600?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Tom
From the looks of those, they appear to be something fairly easy to make out of some old hydraulic lifters.
From the eBay ad...
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.cadillaclasalleclub.org%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D133303.0%3Battach%3D69231%3Bimage&hash=d0e66c18a8f3eeb73cf4f145d49166ab73eae3b0)
Tom,
Hi. I have two different style 346 lifters here in my shop. One from an early '47 and one from a late '47 engine. One set has exposed springs and an one set concealed, more of a modern style, both flatties and both using lifter blocks. It's a 2-piece design so maybe you can just get some new mushrooms and salvage your lifters if going with a new cam. I have never seen that particular style, but maybe someone who knows more could chime in. They can be rebuilt and they are still available if needed from different vendors. Are you missing the Blocks, bolts, safety tabs, and the oil line hardware/ pre-bent lines? I'm sure a lot of people on the forum could help you out with a spare set-up if that's what you're looking for. At this age, most of the lifters are "worn-in" to your cam and should really not be used with a new or reground cam without being resurfaced or replaced. Installing them on a new cam might lead to instant wipe-out of your cam. As long as they're not too bad you can usually have them resurfaced up to .002 on a valve grinding machine. Hope this helps,
Bob
Joe and Bob,
I have a spare set of assemblies and and all related parts. Bob are you suggesting I have the base of the lifter housing that rides on the cam machined? That seems to make sense.
I understand the precise 3 inch spec for base circle of cam to seated valve. I have also thought of using valve stem extender caps http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-25047,
or possibly machining caps for the base of the the lifter assembly.
Adding to the base of the lifter assembly may cause an interference. But my ideal situation would be to retain the plungers.
Tom
Tom, Is the space between the cam heel and valve stem in your situation greater than the specified 3"? The valve stem extenders looking interesting and may be the solution for a short stem, but I don't think a lifter body extention would be advisable. Another solution is to replace the valve and adjust the stem to proper length. Harry
Harry,
I am 3.130" with stock valves. I have not pulled my factory valves yet.
Tom
Tom,
Hi. The cam heel to valve stem tip relationship of 3.00" is usually determined after a valve job is completed and is adjusted accordingly by grinding the valve stem tip to arrive at the perfect number of 3.00". You really need to determine this after the machinist has taken a cut off the seats which will usually "pocket" the valve slightly into the head. You will then gain (or decrease) the space between the cam heel and the tip. I am in agreement with Harry as to not using any type of "tricks" to arrive at this. Valves are pretty cheap and if you need some used ones, I have a few sets. This is one engine you don't want to have to go back into over and over. You need to give us more information as to what was wrong, and what you're trying to accomplish. Are you doing a full rebuild? Just a valve job? New Cam/ Old Cam? Have you checked your existing cam to see if it's useable? I only recommended that if you were using a new cam with your existing mushrooms was to see if they could be machined down properly for use with a new cam to save you a few dollars. Gives us more info please…….
Bob
All,
I am building a fresh motor. I am installing high lift reground cam. I am currently test fitting the cam, before I machine the block.
The base circle of the cam lobe has been ground down creating the difference.
Tom
Tom,
Do you have a "New" valve laying around that you could use to compare heights against what was in there that you were basing your distance on? That might be a starting point. Valves are pretty cheap. I honestly wouldn't even think of re-using them if the engine were torn down for a full rebuild. I'm in the middle of it right now also. Harry provided a nice clean donor block.
Bob
I will get the new valves and see what I come up with.
Can we assume the .130 inch lowering of the lifter and plunger assembly
due to the cam lobe base circle being ground, the lifter will function properly?
Tom
I think it will 'Tap' like hell Tom if you use the standard hydraulic lifters. The oil cushion is very small in these.
Tom,
I agree with Steve on this as far as the geometry of the 346 valve train. Before you go and purchase anything that has to be returned, why don't you just measure up what you have, make a call or two to some vendors ( Terrill, etc. ), and see what the length of the new ones are. You might also be able to find a compatible valve that would work with very little machining involved (Ferrea, Manley, etc.). Guides are going to need to be done anyway, and it wouldn't be that much more work to get a better valve in there at this stage in your build. A few calls should settle it or maybe discuss it with your machinist if the standard 346 stock valve "replacements" will absolutely not work. Did the person who did the custom grind or "re-grind" know that this measurement was critical to 346? Some cam grinders will build up the lobe to preserve the core diameter in this kind of situation. Keep us posted.
Bob
I don't really understand why the base circle was ground under size anyway?? If the lobe has been built up for higher lift and a person has to fit a longer valve to compensate for the ground base circle that doubles up the lift of the valve which may cause problems touching the head?? especially if one starts grinding the head and block.
Steve,
Usually when they "grind" a cam, they take an even cut around the whole lobe. Think of it as decreasing the diameter of a circle. The intended profile can be cut, but the overall height changes. What this means is that even though the base circle and lobe get "smaller", the cam can still retain the same or "intended" lift and duration. This is more acceptable with an overhead valve engine due to the availability of products to compensate for the difference (i.e., longer pushrods) and much is available in the aftermarket as far as lifter styles, pushrods, etc. go for a modern engine. The 346 is a different animal because your "lash" is really obtained by grinding the valve stem which technically is your pushrod in a Flathead style valve train. Not too many options here that I know of with the valve train geometry in this motor. Might be going through a lot of trouble to fit a reground cam into this motor without aftermarket type parts to compensate. Obviously, when you "regrind" a cam, you are removing metal to equalize the lobes due to wear. Maybe should have started with a billet and had the new cam specs ground to factory specs but "hotter". I don't actually see how putting a different cam in an engine with such low compression and lack of breathing would be beneficial. Other changes need to be made to make a cam of this nature work. Just a cam change might actually hurt performance. "Over-camming" an engine is a typical mistake of novice engine builders. Maybe some older Flathead racers could chime in on this. I'm interested at the final outcome.
Bob
I agree with you totally Bob. I learnt that back in the 60s when trying to hot up old engines that were not designed for the higher revs and several broken cranks were what I got for my efforts.
The cam grind, the grinder recommended solid lifters. I have a full open plenum intake from Imperial for a 500 cfm carb. It also will take a 4-71 wiend super charger.
I am looking to turn 5000 rpm. These forged cranks can handle this no problem. The factory heads flow better than any aftermarket.
Tom