I want to swap the engine in my 1951 Cadillac, but I need some advise from you. My goal is to have a daily driver and sometimes go on 1-2 day road trips.
1. Should I go for a new crate engine, or better find complete used engine/transmission from a donor car?
2. What size/kind of engine should I look for? What transmission?
3. Can I keep original axles/suspension (with update to disc brakes)? Can I update it to power steering?
4. What will be the less expensive way?
5. Can I keep AC unit from donor car if I go that way? How difficult would it be to make it work in my Cadillac? If I go with crate engine I have to add AC for roughly $$$$2-3000, right?
6. Can I easily sell original engine/transmission of my car? How much can I get for it?
Thanks for your thoughts on that.
My opinion ---
1. Rebuild your current engine, why swap it out? Probably less money and fewer problems.
2. You won't find a Cadillac crate engine for that car, hopefully you are not thinking of denigrating the car with a small block Chevy. Used? Why buy someone else's troubles? With used you will soon enough be back where you are now.
3. Yes.
4. See #1.
5. Using an AC from a donor car (which donor car?) will be a lot of work. Aftermarket AC/Heat systems will still be work but much easier and you get a new system.
6. Depends on the condition of the used engine and transmission. If in need of overhaul, not much, if anything.
Thank you for your advice.
Quote from: 35-709 on July 29, 2015, 06:08:06 PM
My opinion ---
1. Rebuild your current engine, why swap it out? Probably less money and fewer problems.
Modern engine would be more "drivable" for a daily driver. Better performance and better fuel millage.
Quote2. You won't find a Cadillac crate engine for that car, hopefully you are not thinking of denigrating the car with a small block Chevy. Used? Why buy someone else's troubles? With used you will soon enough be back where you are now.
That is exactly what I am thinking of. "Denigrating" this car with small block Chevy. And if I'll go with used engine, it would be something 5-10 years old. that's 50 years younger that what I have now.
This is not a unique car, one of a kind, worthy to protect its originality for any cost. It is beautiful car, but there are many of them left, sitting in various collections and storage places. I drive my car almost every day. I don't want to mess with its looks, but I'd love to have something more practical under the hood.
Surely, the purist among us cringe, but I "get your drift." I drove my '56, 62 short deck sedan for 15 years as a daily driver... It had a highly effective air conditioning system, and all the requisite bells and whistles to make it extraordinary comfortable for my ninety mile commute to work each day--- when it wouldn't pass NJ pollution control inspection, I spent a ton of money to have the engine entirely rebuilt--- alas, shortly thereafter, rust began to eat away at my old beauty. That was 1978, and I gave the car away. All this is to say that owning an old car and having it functional in today's demanding traffic requires a good deal of thought about JUST where to invest your hard earned discretionary cash... this is especially true if your wife's engagement is a requirement for you to be fulfilled. I have been soooo very fortunate to have a friend who owns an independent garage. When my 85 convertible developed its obligatory 4100 death rattle, he willingly donated his time to get my old gal back on the road. His only precondition: that we substitute a GM engine that has rock-solid reputation from a donor car.(in my case, a 265 cid Olds). The parts cost including the used engine cost around $3,000-- I sustpect the labor charge would have been around 5k Now, when my wife and I go driving, I no longer have a care about the car's engine failing.
I am fortunate enough to have a wife who not only tolerates my love for cars but also fully supports it. It doesn't hurts that she makes more money then I do either. ;D
I have an M3 with supercharger, 600 HP, little Fiat from 1988 with 2-cylinder engine, 24 HP and 1951 Cadillac.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww4.picturepush.com%2Fphoto%2Fa%2F14667842%2F800%2FCars%2FIMG-2377.jpg&hash=90b0153b89f708eaa5fce8e75c841e3936685c38) (http://picturepush.com/public/14667842)
My wife drives new 328i and loves her car, so she doesn't care what do I do with my "fleet". Except that we do not have separate banks accounts and I do not do anything behind her back, so she has to approve any of my crazy projects.
If I have to go on a longer trip, I take mine or hers Bimmer. Fiat is not powerful enough to take it to the freeway. It would go 65, but that is its limit and one can drive that fast only for short time. However I love to drive my Cadillac. I wish I could take it everywhere. Now I am a little bit afraid to do this. Plus it makes only 9 miles per gallon.
I didn't make my decision yet. I need better brakes, A/C, P/S, but I am not sure what to do with the engine and transmission. If I could rebuild it, convert it to 390, maybe I would keep it. However I afraid that always would be problem with leaking seals, starvation for oil, not so smooth gear changes, poor fuel mileage etc.
If I put new crate engine, it will last longer then I, since I am 57 now and in 20 years or so I'll be gone. >:D
There is a shop near, where its owner showed me a Mazda RX7 with Corvette engine and 1962 Cadillac with big block crate engine, so he knows what he is doing. He said that all that engine swap, with base 350 small block would be around $10K, including A/C. I wouldn't do it till next spring, because I need to save some money first, but as for today, this is the most appealing option for me. To go with the crate engine, modern transmission, disc brakes, A/C and power steering.
I do not need big power - for that I have my M3. I think 200 -250 HP would be sufficient. 51 Series 62 is not that heavy - weights about 4100 pounds. I just need reliable drivetrain, so I could use that car with confidence,
I have no real objection to repowering the car --- I have a 472 in my '35 Cadillac. But why not repower with a Cadillac engine like a '60 to '62 390. And there is absolutely no reason a properly rebuilt 1951 Cadillac engine and transmission cannot be reliable.
Enjoy your car.
Quote from: 35-709 on July 30, 2015, 09:13:03 AM
... why not repower with a Cadillac engine like a '60 to '62 390. And there is absolutely no reason a properly rebuilt 1951 Cadillac engine and transmission cannot be reliable.
I don't know. That's why I ask you, guys. If someone can tell me who can rebuild my engine, or where I can get rebuilt 390, I can go that way. As far as the transmission goes, it doesn't shifts as smooth as modern ATs do. I don't know if that's the way it is, or if there's something wrong with it.
I think new crate engine will be more reliable then rebuild 50 year old mill and I think new engine/modern transmission would be smoother then old Cadillac/s setup, but I could be wrong.
Piotr,
You could post the same inquiry at the Modified Cadillac chapter http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/.
Folks there may be able to provide options on this topic. ;)
Good luck..!
I have had 15 Cadillacs between 1949 and 1956 and driven them as daily drivers about half the days over the last 25 years. I can say with certainty that these Cadillac engines produce lots of power and are EXTREMELY reliable. The transmissions, once redone, are smooth and bullet-proof. There is no need to put in something else for reliability or power.
All reliability issues in these engines relate to fuel pumps, carbs, and ignition, not mechanical problems in the engines themselves. Those external problems will exist in a crate engine running modern fuel with alcohol in it. I once put electronic fuel injection on a 49 Cadillac, but found that it was overkill (see pictures attached). The best solution to fuel issues is to run a very robust electric fuel pump at the back full-time, not as an auxiliary. That avoids vapor lock and lots of other problems that often seem like carb or ignition issues, but really are fuel starvation/lean-out issues.
I have no issue with someone wanting to modify their car -- it is their car, not MY car, after all. But before you do it, ask yourself why are you doing it. I have done lots of mods over the years and found out which ones are beneficial and which ones are not. In my humble opinion, swapping the engine for a 350 crate motor is a waste of effort with no tangible benefit to the owner. It will also greatly limit the number of potential buyers for such a car.
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on July 30, 2015, 11:58:14 AM
I have had 15 Cadillacs between 1949 and 1956 and driven them as daily drivers about half the days over the last 25 years...
Preach to me, man. ;D
QuoteI can say with certainty that these Cadillac engines produce lots of power and are EXTREMELY reliable. The transmissions, once redone, are smooth and bullet-proof. There is no need to put in something else for reliability or power.
If that is the case I have no reason to look for a crate engine. However now my car hesitate a lot, every gear change feels like someone kicked my butt and my fuel millage sucks. Engine also makes valve clicking noises and my mechanic said it needs new camshaft. If I can make this car fully reliable and "everyday driving trusty" I would stay with the original engine.
Just tell me what can I do to improve it. Should I stay with 331 or bore it to 390? Change carburetor, cams? What about the transmission? Is it any truth in those leaking rope seals in this engine?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLJL0kHSm9A&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZELZoSGaKZU&feature=youtu.be
Find a quality rebuilder (auto machine shop), someone who has been in business a long time and knows how to do this Cad engine. Bore it over as little as needed. No need for a hotter cam. Pay extra to have the engine "blueprinted" and precision balanced. That will result in maximum smoothness and power. Have the exhaust manifolds ceramic coated (see Performance Coatings in Georgia). Stick with the stock Carter 2-bbl carb -- it is a wonderful performer, highly refined by 1951 for great performance and reliability. Use a dynamic rubber lip seal on the main (Best makes one). By the way, I greatly prefer Best brand gaskets. Don't overtighten anything, especially valve cover and oil pan bolts -- use a torque wrench calibrated in inch-pounds. Use dual point ignition plate or Pertronix electronic ignition module to get a better spark and open the plug gap to .040". Keep it 6v, but pay very careful attention to grounds and heavy, thick battery cables. See the article Jay Friedman and I authored in the Self-Starter about adding an auxiliary ground to the starter motor. Rebuild and restore the Carter carb, either yourself or by a specialist. Have someone replace the rubber diaphragm in the vacuum advance unit on the distributor (Terrell Machine??). Keep the exhaust system a single exhaust, but up the size of the pipes to 2-1/4" from the stock 2" for easier breathing and more power, and get it in stainless for long life. Avoid using heavy duty spring in the oil pump to keep from producing excessive oil pressure. 51 engines run cool, so you are likely okay on vapor lock. If you have any issues, you can install a aux electric pump or a full-time electric pump. Anyway, that is the hot set up for the 51 engine.
The trans will need to be redone by someone who is old and knows the H-M tranny. Shifts 1-2 and 3-4 will be nice and soft, but 2-3 will be firmer and more noticeable than you are used to in a modern car. It is how the transmission is supposed to work. But once done correctly, these transmissions are wonderful. Have the tranny guy pay careful attention to adjusting the throttle valve (TV) rod -- he'll know.
These engines and transmissions are reliable enough for daily commutes and for cross-country travel. In my opinion, 51 (picture attached) is one of the very best years for the drive train (for various technical reasons). 54 and 55 are also very good. But all of the 49-55 Cadillac power trains are great. Well, some might complain about the 53 DynaFlow transmissions...
Thanks, Art. If I only knew how to find that someone in the Carolinas who knows how to works on classic Cadillacs...
Piotr,
From what I can see in your 1st video, the carburetor is not the stock Carter WCD carburetor for a '51 that Art mentioned, but some other carb, though the video isn't clear and I may be mistaken. The valve lifters, push rods and rocker arms in your motor are very noisy. It sounds like the motor has either low oil pressure, dirt in the upper oil passages, faulty valve lifters or all 3, and certainly needs to be rebuilt. ('51 Cadillac don't have an oil pressure gauge but just an idiot light. Is that the red light lit up on your dash in the video?)
I agree with everything Art said about rebuilding and improving the motor and, especially, that you couldn't improve upon it with a crate or any other kind of engine. (Well...., unlike Art I'm not a great fan of Pertronix or dual point ignition, but that's a detail and just my humble opinion.) As for the "dynamic rubber lip seal on the main" Art mentioned: in non-engineer's language this is a neoprene rubber rear main bearing seal that should be used in place of the rope seal that comes with most engine gasket sets. They are sold by Terrill Machine Company in Deleon, Texas.
I don't know about anyone in the Carolinas who knows these motors, but here in northern Georgia, which is not that far away, there are at least 2 good machine shops who would do an excellent job and are experienced with 49-55 Cadillac motors:
GOZA Auto Parts and Machine Shop, 4391 S Main Street, Acworth, GA 30101, phone (770) 974-2088
Will's Auto Machine Shop Incorporated, 3149 Chamblee Dunwoody Rd, Atlanta, GA 30341, phone (770) 451-4081
Art Gardner and I have used them both with great results. (My '49's motor was rebuilt by Will's and it took me and the car 1,700 miles round trip to the CLC Grand National in Wisconsin in hot weather, only using ½ quart of oil, without overheating and starting perfectly every time.)
Just remembered that there is a shop in NC that used to do full vintage car restorations, specializing in Cadillacs and Buick, but I've heard now only does upholstery and interiors. However, they may know of an engine rebuilder in your area. Give them a call.
Jenkins Restorations, 102 Chestnut St, NORTH WILKESBORO, NC 28659, (336) 667-4282 The guy in charge is Hill Jenkins.
I now have over 6000 miles on my rebuilt 51 with a stock 331 engine and cruise control.. I have made 3 trips to Las Vegas ,, About 850 miles around and got 17 to 18 miles to the gal. driving 70 mph.. on one tank of gas I got 22 mpg .. I had a very strong tail wind .... I don't know why you guys are getting such poor fuel milage... I just wish I had power steering,, it's a bear in parking lots..
Gene Harl CLC22406
First of all I apologize for not answering earlier. I work 12-14 hours a day and not always have time to turn on my computer. I appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions.
Quote from: Jay Friedman on July 30, 2015, 04:22:24 PM
Piotr,
From what I can see in your 1st video, the carburetor is not the stock Carter WCD carburetor for a '51 that Art mentioned, but some other carb, though the video isn't clear and I may be mistaken.
I'll do another video showing it, but I'll start new tread about fuel millage in that car.
QuoteThe valve lifters, push rods and rocker arms in your motor are very noisy. It sounds like the motor has either low oil pressure, dirt in the upper oil passages, faulty valve lifters or all 3, and certainly needs to be rebuilt. ('51 Cadillac don't have an oil pressure gauge but just an idiot light. Is that the red light lit up on your dash in the video?)
My mechanic said it needs new camshaft. Red light is for oil pressure.
Quotein non-engineer's language this is a neoprene rubber rear main bearing seal that should be used in place of the rope seal that comes with most engine gasket sets. They are sold by Terrill Machine Company in Deleon, Texas.
Thanks
Quotehere in northern Georgia, which is not that far away, there are at least 2 good machine shops who would do an excellent job and are experienced with 49-55 Cadillac motors:
GOZA Auto Parts and Machine Shop, 4391 S Main Street, Acworth, GA 30101, phone (770) 974-2088
Will's Auto Machine Shop Incorporated, 3149 Chamblee Dunwoody Rd, Atlanta, GA 30341, phone (770) 451-4081
Thanks again. How do they work? Can I drive/tow my car there and they will do all the job, or do I need to send them just the engine? How much job like that will cost me?
Quote from: Jay Friedman on July 30, 2015, 04:46:10 PM
Just remembered that there is a shop in NC that used to do full vintage car restorations, specializing in Cadillacs and Buick, but I've heard now only does upholstery and interiors. However, they may know of an engine rebuilder in your area. Give them a call.
Jenkins Restorations, 102 Chestnut St, NORTH WILKESBORO, NC 28659, (336) 667-4282 The guy in charge is Hill Jenkins.
Thanks for that too. In my car odometer doesn't work, and speedometer is about 30% off, so maybe he would be the guy to fix those problems.
Quote from: gene harl on July 30, 2015, 08:47:51 PM
I now have over 6000 miles on my rebuilt 51 with a stock 331 engine and cruise control.. I have made 3 trips to Las Vegas ,, About 850 miles around and got 17 to 18 miles to the gal. driving 70 mph.. on one tank of gas I got 22 mpg .. I had a very strong tail wind .... I don't know why you guys are getting such poor fuel milage... I just wish I had power steering,, it's a bear in parking lots..
Gene Harl CLC22406
That's good news. It gives me hope. I'll start today another topic about fuel millage in those cars, so maybe you can help me there.
Quote: "Thanks again. How do they work? Can I drive/tow my car there and they will do all the job, or do I need to send them just the engine? How much job like that will cost me?"
I think Will's would require that you send them the motor, but I'm not sure. I think the same is true of Goza's, but again I'm not sure. Call them and ask. A full engine rebuild will be expensive. I'm not sure since I do part of the needed work myself (take the motor apart, etc.) when having an engine rebuilt so I can't give you an accurate estimate. I would say $2,500 - $3,500 but I could be wrong.
If your oil pressure is so low the light comes on, there is definitely something wrong. Your mechanic is right, as the noisy lifters and rocker arms certainly point to a bad camshaft.
Quote from: Jay Friedman on August 02, 2015, 06:47:40 PM
If your oil pressure is so low the light comes on, there is definitely something wrong.
Oil pressure light is on only when I turn the key, before I start engine. It never goes on when engine is running. Light which stayed on was indicating that parking brake was on.
Most engine machine shops don't remove or install engines -- general mechanics do that. But the engine machine shops do work on the motor that a regular mechanic (like me) can't do properly. So typically you need the services of both.
As for cost, the machine shop will usually charge you in the neighborhood of 3-4K including parts to do a thorough rebuild.
Some parts are better to be reconditioned than replace with new, as the new parts are sometimes of low quality. The engine machinist typically can make that call...
I know some of you will be disappointed, but I decided to change everything in that car.
I want new engine and transmission, power disc brakes, power steering, seatbelts and cool A/C. I am planning to do this in January 2016 and all your suggestions how to go about it are welcomed.
Any suggestions about transmission, rear end ratio, etc are needed. I am not going to make a hot rod from that car, I just want dependable daily transportation. I want to go in this car for a trip around the USA. I want a car which would cruise easily on the interstate at 70-80 mph.
Are there any issues with the suspension/wheel hubs and such? Can I keep the original ones? Car seems to be very tight, no strange noises from the wheels, but it is 65 years old and I don't want to loose my wheel driving 80 mph.
I would not recommend what you are about to do. But if you must, here is how I'd do it if budget is not an issue:
1. E-Rod crate engine and transmission package, with electronic fuel injection and all wiring, from GM. About 10K for the package. But great reliability and fuel economy. Runs super. This is essentially the engine in the Chevy trucks and Suburbans. Best engine package on the road, in my opinion. As a bonus, it will not be polluting.
2. Install a rear air conditioner that comes through the package shelf. It won't cool you quite as fast as one that blows directly on your face, but it will do the job very well and will be unobtrusive. I have installed an AC unit behind a 49 dash and it is very hard to do and I don't recommend it again.
3. Not wild about the power disk brakes, but hey, your car. I can't recommend any particular set up.
4. Skip the power steering and get the right tires! Get skinny tread patch radials that look like bias ply tires. Both Diamondback and Coker sell them. Inflate them to 36psi. The high inflation pressure and the skinny tread patch will make it seem like power steering (well, about 1/2 power, in my estimation).
5. Stock rear end it super strong and changing it out will yield negligible improvements. I would bet that you would not be able to tell the difference in performance at all.
6. Stock suspension is good. Use Bilstein shocks from Kanter and a fat sway bar (made by ADDCO, sold by Kanter and others).
7. Adding seat belts is great. If this is a sedan, you can remove the upholstery panel from the B-pillar and weld in an anchor point for a shoulder belt. WESCO makes a good anchor. That will give you 3-point seat belts. Or, if you don't mind swapping seats, get seats from a car that has shoulder belts attached to the seat, rather than to the body. But this is less than ideal aesthetically.
First picture is of the tires I am talking about. Great improvement. Second picture shows a 49 with AC and seats with shoulder belts (and covered in correct 49 fabric).
If you do decide to use the stock motor (my recommendation), you can install an AC compressor below the generator for a clean look and easy topside maintenance of valve covers, spark plugs, etc. Last picture shows exactly that.
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM
I would not recommend what you are about to do. But if you must, here is how I'd do it if budget is not an issue:
Unfortunately budget is an issue. I'll try to spend 10-15K.
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM1. E-Rod crate engine and transmission package, with electronic fuel injection and all wiring, from GM. About 10K for the package. But great reliability and fuel economy. Runs super. This is essentially the engine in the Chevy trucks and Suburbans. Best engine package on the road, in my opinion. As a bonus, it will not be polluting.
Great idea, but too expensive. I hope I'll find engine and transmission for about 5K.
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM2. Install a rear air conditioner that comes through the package shelf. It won't cool you quite as fast as one that blows directly on your face, but it will do the job very well and will be unobtrusive. I have installed an AC unit behind a 49 dash and it is very hard to do and I don't recommend it again.
Mechanic, who will do that job ( http://tullockautomotive.com ) has some experience with Vintage Air. And good , efficient AC is critical for my wife. She will not go on a trip in a car with "won't cool you quite as fast as one that blows directly on your face". And "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy". I think I have to spend 3K for AC.
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM3. Not wild about the power disk brakes, but hey, your car. I can't recommend any particular set up.
Something has to be done with the brakes anyways. I can stay with drums, but I need servo and... (how I say that in English?) dual-circuit? If I blew breakline now i won't have any brakes. So if I have to redo brakes, why not go all the way? I think I need about 2K for brakes.
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM4. Skip the power steering and get the right tires! Get skinny tread patch radials that look like bias ply tires. Both Diamondback and Coker sell them. Inflate them to 36psi. The high inflation pressure and the skinny tread patch will make it seem like power steering (well, about 1/2 power, in my estimation).
Power steering can be done cheap. Less then $500: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1201sr-electronic-power-steering/
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM5. Stock rear end it super strong and changing it out will yield negligible improvements. I would bet that you would not be able to tell the difference in performance at all.
6. Stock suspension is good. Use Bilstein shocks from Kanter and a fat sway bar (made by ADDCO, sold by Kanter and others).
Thx
Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM7. Adding seat belts is great. If this is a sedan, you can remove the upholstery panel from the B-pillar and weld in an anchor point for a shoulder belt. WESCO makes a good anchor. That will give you 3-point seat belts. Or, if you don't mind swapping seats, get seats from a car that has shoulder belts attached to the seat, rather than to the body. But this is less than ideal aesthetically.
I don't want "modern seats". Those "couches" I have now are great. I think lap belts will suffice.
Thx for your advice and pictures. I'll talk with my mechanic after Christmas and then I'll know how much actually he thinks he has to charge for that job. He recently did engine swap in 61 Caddy and he also put a Corvette engine into a Mazda RX7. If I find used engine/transmission somewhere I can trust, I can go with that, however that scares me a bit, because I could buy that way somebody's else problem.
Hi Polonus: First off as some have said "it's your car". You are asking for advice and I am not one to argue your choices. I have had many Cadillacs of the 50's. Some original, some very modified-- as many here have. So I'm in no particular "camp".
I have had a boat load of cars with the 331-365-390 engines. They are terrific engines, but with that said, the 331's I have had gave me the same problems you have mentioned. I have had terrific times with the 365's and 390's (the 390 being IMO the best of the series). All ran great and I did not rebuild one of them. I even put a 365 ci. in a '33 coupe hot rod (right out of a parts car with the transmission) and drove the hell out of it. I mean burn outs, interstate drives of over 2 hours, and anywhere else I wanted to go. Never any issues. If it were my car I would try to find a nice 390 ci. that will bolt right in and just do the usual (timing chain, valve job and clean out the rocker arm shafts, electric fuel pump, and water pump). Remember these are Cadillac engines not run of the mill fords or chevys. They were usually well taken care of, maintained and were built to a better spec.
The only issue is the fuel economy with the Caddy motor. There isn't any. But with fuel under $3.00 a gallon now, maybe not such a big concern. But as I'm sure you have found out, 13 to 15 mpg is all you get. At least that's all I ever got and I actually did the math, not just guessing and wishful thinking. With the A/C you can probably take 2 or 3 more mpg off of that.
For me I would not change to a small block chevy. The retrofit will drag on-- crossmember, exhaust, engine mounts, and all the little things you never count on (ask me how I know!)
The issues of the brakes, A/C, and front end are the ones (as you said) I would too concentrate on. Rebuild the front end and keep it greased- done. The brakes need to be completely upgraded to a dual master cylinder and power. As you said, I would go with the front discs and a dual power master cylinder (probably a frame mounted unit-- don't for get the proportioning valve and residual valve). The rears at that point are only along for the ride and although it's a heavy car, it should stop just fine with the disc upgrade up front and no miles of steep grade mountain driving (resulting in rear brake fade). You can save money there. I would do the rear axle bearings and seals.
A/C will be a challenge as some here have testified to. The cabin is huge in that car and with 134a less efficient than the old R-12 I don't think a rear mounted evaporator is going to get that car cooled to a comfortable range. I live in Florida, so trust me, we know about A/C efficiency. We use A/C almost year long as here in December it is still in the 80's. The 134a systems need a larger condenser up front so make sure you get a doozy. I would try talk to Vintage Air. Those guys have been at it a long time and usually have all the answers. I bet they could set you up with a system that will cool that beast!
Most importantly enjoy the ride. Drive your car and remember it is your car. Build it for you, not the next guy.
With budget being a concern, use the Cad 390, up to a 62 I think. That will be the cheapest engine swap. But I have never had any reliability issues with the 331 and have driven them for many, many thousands of miles.
Quote from: polonus on December 17, 2015, 10:45:30 AM
I know some of you will be disappointed, but I decided to change everything in that car.
I want new engine and transmission, power disc brakes, power steering, seatbelts and cool A/C. I am planning to do this in January 2016 and all your suggestions how to go about it are welcomed.
Any suggestions about transmission, rear end ratio, etc are needed. I am not going to make a hot rod from that car, I just want dependable daily transportation. I want to go in this car for a trip around the USA. I want a car which would cruise easily on the interstate at 70-80 mph.
Are there any issues with the suspension/wheel hubs and such? Can I keep the original ones? Car seems to be very tight, no strange noises from the wheels, but it is 65 years old and I don't want to loose my wheel driving 80 mph.
Thats a -LOT- to do on 10-15k, especially if you aren't doing the labor. Triple that is the minimum I would expect. As for brakes and rear end you may be able to get something going on the original chassis but not sure if it and the original rear suspension is up to task for the extra power. Now you look for disc brakes that are actually bigger and better than the original drums and they really don't fit under the stock wheels. (and if you get all that figured out you are still on very old suspension/steering geometry).
I just went with a new chassis altogether on my Brougham as I wanted it to match the capabilities of the drivetrain.
That being said, I also have the original drivetrain in my 59 and have zero complaints. The car drives great. Yes only 13mpg but wouldn't expect it to be much better.
The cheapest and longest path to achieving your requirement for a dependable daily driver is to maximize the use and value of what you already have and do as much of the general mechanic work yourself. The most expensive and shortest path to achieve your requirement is to replace everything and have all the work done by professionals. The later is nowhere near a $10-$15K path since that amount wont even cover the labor cost for reputable mechanics needed for your to-do-list. Basically incompatible requirements.
Sounds like the starting point is talking to your wife about approving more money. Or, sell that car, add the $15K to the amount received, and buy a similar car that someone has already sunk more time and money into that will never be earned back.
All I can say is that I drive my totally stock '49 (exact same motor as '51) regularly and have been on approximately 20 long trips with it up to 1,200 miles from home one way in the 31 years I've owned it. Only broke down once on a trip when a generator armature failed, but a modern alternator can also fail. As mentioned by other posters the motor and the rest of the stock drive train is "bullet-proof" since it is Cadillac-built. It's a great road car since it accelerates powerfully, will easily cruise at modern interstate speeds, and steers and stops perfectly with no power steering and drum brakes. The only thing it lacks is air conditioning, which I could fix by converting to 12 volts and buying a Vintage Air unit for far less cost than $10-15K. To keep it happy I only use ethanol-free gasoline (fortunately available in my area). The only concession to modern times I've made is to install a modern AM-FM radio and tape deck under the dash.
Quote from: Joe Vastola CLC #29052 on December 21, 2015, 04:09:05 PM...The most expensive and shortest path to achieve your requirement is to replace everything and have all the work done by professionals. The later is nowhere near a $10-$15K path since that amount wont even cover the labor cost for reputable mechanics needed for your to-do-list. Basically incompatible requirements.
OK, OK! You convinced me. Plans changed. Cadillac will stay as is for now. I already spent my "new engine money" on new youngtimer:
(https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/14912217/1024/Cars/IMG-6962.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/14912217)
;D
"I have had 15 Cadillacs between 1949 and 1956 and driven them as daily drivers about half the days over the last 25 years. I can say with certainty that these Cadillac engines produce lots of power and are EXTREMELY reliable. The transmissions, once redone, are smooth and bullet-proof. There is no need to put in something else for reliability or power." Art Gardner
I agree with Art. I had 12 1949-1951 Cadillacs in a previous life, sadly I sold them all for a song. Today I have seven:
49 Fleetwood (2)
49 CDV (2)
49 Convertible
52 Fleetwood
58 Eldorado Brougham.
I have had the original engines professionally rebuilt four of these cars, and three of the hydramatics rebuilt. All with great results. I have made a few deviations from original: most of these cars now have front disc brakes, power steering from 1952 or 1953 Cadillacs, Pertronix ignition, and 12-volt electrical systems. On two of them I converted from the two-barrel Carter carburetor to a 4 barrel Carter WCFB. Two have modern A/C, and most of them have a modern sound system discretely housed in a Kleenex box case under the dash.
They have plenty of power for normal driving, they are very reliable, and a joy to drive.
Piotr, you have probably made all of the arrangements for your engine swap, and I wish you luck. But if you haven't, don't give up on that magnificent 331 original.
Jon Yinger CLC#26643
With a 51, I would try to stay OEM - rebuild and whatnot, but if you want a daily driver, here is something to consider:
1) low mile or rebuild LS SBC engine (5.3) complete dropout. Needs to have the TCM,PCM, wire harness, accelerator pedal (if drive-by-wire). Probably looking at $900 to $4K depending on how you buy. You can find low mile engines with transmission together for this price.
2) 5.3 is a great, flexible engine. Most come with a 4l60e transmission (automatic).
3) Not sure about your rear diff, axles, and suspension. You would retain the donor motor's steering and have to upgrade your steering knuckle - not too hard.
4) Hard to say. Are you paying someone else to do the work, or are you doing it?
5) Sort of. I don't know what the chassis and front crossmember is like on a 51. The AC compressor on these LS motors sits low, passenger side. If it doesn't fit with the chassis and motor brackets, then you can get an aftermarket compressor kit to move it to upper engine passenger side. All this could range from $500 to $1500 depending on what you need.
6) If your 51's engine and transmission are in running shape (also rebuildable and OEM), then you could get something for them, for sure. Is it stock? What's the condition and milage?
Get crate Chevy small block. Run FAST EFI and go with Vintage Air. You can get a variety of kits to put front discs on the car. Upgrade to a modern master cylinder whilst you are it. below is a link to the CaddyDaddy brake kits and the EFI
http://www.caddydaddy.com/shop-parts/brake-items/disc-brake-conversion-kits.html
http://www.fuelairspark.com/