The CV boot on the driver's side separated along the edge of the large band and grease spewed out all over. Luckily there's no clicking or growling coming from the joint. I got a replacement boot on Ebay matching the OE part no., but my mechanic who's quite experienced with old cars, said that he couldn't replace the boot because he didn't have the tools needed to do it. He said that GM's CV joint and drive axle setups in 66-78 were complicated. They were redesigned in 79 for easier boot replacement.
I've seen "split" boots - Dorman makes one. Is that an option... or do I have to find a complete reconditioned drive axle? One supplier is Detroit Axle which sells it for $325. Does anyone have any experience with them? A cursory look at online reviews shows a lot of unflattering comments. I've seen aftermarket ones for about $100, but they're probably Chinese made junk. Any advice would be appreciated. Many thanks.
Paul
G'day Paul,
The thing about replacing the boots is that the axle must be removed, especially to replace the outer boot. If the engine /trans is out, it is very easy. Otherwise you have to remove the Upright, then undo the cap screws to remove the inner part, then slip it all out as one.
Once out, it is easy to follow the Shop Manual to replace the boots, as it is described beautifully.
I have done mine, and if I can do it, then anyone can.
I replaced a torn boot in USA with one of the "split-type" but that didn't last long before it started to break up, so I knew I had a job to do when I took the engine out.
Bruce. >:D
I have never tried the split boot because I don’t believe it is worth the time or the money. I have replaced the boots on my 68 ELDO many times. It is not easy but not really hard either.
You do have to separate one of the ball joints. Take the joint apart and clean it as clean as you can get it.
One variation from the shop manual is to put the band on the large end first, bend the joint as sharply as you can and see where the boot small end goes. Clamp it there if it is not where the groove for the clamp is. If you do not, then the boot will be pulled off when the wheels are turned left or right.
Changed this boot on a 1972 Eldorado. Here is the boot before and after. Looked really nice going back in.
The only special tool that might not be in your shop is the stainless steel band clamp crimping tool. This is a job where the labor is 100 times more than the part, so make sure that boot is a high quality replacement. I had to buy the stainless steel bands pictured from a truck parts store, and fortunately they had it and it took the largest size. The stainless steel band that came with it was crap.
This is not an easy job, but it is able to be done if the shop manual is very carefully followed. While you have this all apart, now is the time if you want to replace suspension bushings.
Good luck,
Scot
Quote from: GlenI have never tried the split boot because I don’t believe it is worth the time or the money. I have replaced the boots on my 68 ELDO many times. It is not easy but not really hard either.
You do have to separate one of the ball joints. Take the joint apart and clean it as clean as you can get it.
The outer split boot I tried on my 79 Eldo didn't last very long either. And it
wasn't all that much easier, than pulling the shaft for a regular boot.
I have a custom tool for popping ball joints on my cars; a pipe and threaded
rod just push apart after the nut is loosened. But with the shaft in the way, I
never figured out a slick way to do it in an E car.
What I don't understand, is why these boots seem to have a short life in
general. The 2001 AWD Honda here has 8 boots, and after 347,000 miles
they are all still original. I really need to get busy and rebuild 4 extra of
my 79 half shafts here for backup. Bruce Roe
Hey Paul,
Whenever my boots rip I just replace the whole drive axle. They are remanufactured and are available at your local parts store. They are about $90 each. Not a hard job to do. I just followed the shop manual.
Joe
Quote from: joecaristoHey Paul,
Whenever my boots rip I just replace the whole drive axle. They are remanufactured and are available at your local parts store. They are about $90 each. Not a hard job to do. I just followed the shop manual. Joe
The price is right; I wonder how many of the original (quality) parts are reused?
Probably they are all "left sides", that is, without the vibration damper in the
middle. Wonder how they do that on a 79-85 half shaft, which aren't symmetric?
I am pretty sure the 79 dampers fail too, at least it seemed so on mine. I can't
use rebuilts, because my 79s are modified for an adapter plate to a TH425 trans &
final drive, instead of TH325. Bruce Roe
I tried to buy a pair of replacement axles before departing USA in 2008, and couldn't get any anywhere. Tried NAPA, and each time they sent a pair, they were too small.
Now I am home, I have had to rebuild my own as getting some sent to me would be horrendously priced as far as the postage component goes.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: joecaristo on April 28, 2016, 06:54:55 PM
Hey Paul,
Whenever my boots rip I just replace the whole drive axle. They are remanufactured and are available at your local parts store. They are about $90 each. Not a hard job to do. I just followed the shop manual.
Joe
I have a few extra shafts so I “rebuild†a spare then swap them out. I keep close track of the condition of the boots so that they do not go long when ripped. The CV joints seem to last a long time if kept clean and well-greased.
For replacements try Rock Auto and rockauto.com.
I have done a few cars, his and mine, with Joe. We use the new ones from a local auto store and you have to specify right or left. We have done my 76, 80, and 81. We did Joe's 77 and 78.
Joe is right, follow the manual. The 76 shop manual is about $40 on ebay and there are always some on there.
One thing to watch out for is to make sure that the threads on the new one for the axle nut are the same. Sometimes they are different, and most of the time they do not come with the castle nut so you have to buy/find one. This can be frustrating when you are not aware and you get the job all done and you go to put on the nut and cotter pin and you don't have one that fits.
Good luck,
Brian
Some of the parts 'books' have a note that says to use the same part number for both sides and others seem to still list 2 part numbers. Sometimes both numbers will be on the box other times different numbers on different boxes with the same part in the box. When I got my car 20 some years ago and most parts guys still knew those cars even then most said they had never seen one with a damper in it. Seems like I even asked a dealer and even they said they had not seen a replacement with the damper in years. I have never noticed a difference between having and not having the damper. Whatever it did must have been pretty subtle. Did the Toro's use it too or was it just a Cad thing? Didn't Cad give up the last few years too? Seems like the later manuals don't mention it.
Seems like sometime in the last couple years someone had some issues with a shaft assembly and posted some photos at which time the group figured it was actually a poor quality newly manufactured shaft assembly. I don't remember what the brand name was but if one vendor is selling them I would bet they all could be by now so quality of a replacement part could be a real concern. Brian's reply about the threads being different kinda backs that up and would be the kind of thing we have come to expect with many reproduced parts these days. The issue I used to have with them is they had been on the shelf so long that the boots were rotten just from sitting.
On the 79-85 I don't know what the difference is other than being slightly smaller, I don't think there is much (if any?) difference in the length. The overall layout is almost identical to the earlier cars with the extension shaft under the oil pan and all. All I really remember is the flanges are different left to right. One side I think is like the old one where the bolts thread into the flange. I think the right side is the other way, the bolts thread into the CV. The inner joint I think is a different design and uses a more typical looking boot vs the older ones that had the really deep joint and unique boot.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on April 29, 2016, 09:00:15 AMSometimes both numbers will be on the box other times different numbers on different boxes with the same part in the box. When I got my car 20 some years ago and most parts guys still knew those cars even then most said they had never seen one with a damper in it. Seems like I even asked a dealer and even they said they had not seen a replacement with the damper in years. I have never noticed a difference between having and not having the damper. Whatever it did must have been pretty subtle. Did the Toro's use it too or was it just a Cad thing? Didn't Cad give up the last few years too?
On the 79-85 I don't know what the difference is other than being slightly smaller, I don't think there is much (if any?) difference in the length. The overall layout is almost identical to the earlier cars with the extension shaft under the oil pan and all. All I really remember is the flanges are different left to right. One side I think is like the old one where the bolts thread into the flange. I think the right side is the other way, the bolts thread into the CV. The inner joint I think is a different design and uses a more typical looking boot vs the older ones that had the really deep joint and unique boot.
The 79-85 half shafts are about 4" shorter than the 66-78s. The layouts are
similar, but just enough different to cause (me) problems. Both Toro & Cad
used the damper in production, but after failures it was phased out of 66-79.
I don't know what the 79-85 solution is; my 79 was doing a lot of clunking
till I got a left shaft on the right side (with another left adapter plate).
The 79-85 damper is built into the right side inner joint, the bolts go the other
way. Which is why they don't directly interchange. Everything pretty much
went from English to metric as it was scaled down. The later engines sat
high enough that there wasn't a huge notch in the pan practically touching the
center bearing, and just about any BOP engine would work. I suspect the later
final drives used standard RWD parts as opposed to custom extra narrow
66-78. This made the 79-85 drive plates an inch farther apart. Very
convenient for me, putting in a 66 trans/drive, I had room for a 1/2" thick
adapter plate on each side to my 79-85 half shafts. But the engine had to
move sideways 1/2" to get the older drive plates centered. Bruce Roe
Thank you, gentlemen, for your replies. Looks like I stimulated discussion beyond my immediate problem... which is what Forums do. At this stage of my life, I'm really not motivated to pull the axle, tear down the joint, clean, repack, reboot, reinstall, etc. and trying a split boot remedy is, in the long run, just "kicking the can down the road".
My mechanic can pull the axle - although he doesn't have the tool(s) to replace the boot - and send it out to a rebuilder that they use periodically. At first, the shop owner was reluctant to do that because it could tie up one of the two lifts for too long. But he reconsidered when I suggested that he pre-arrange with the rebuilder for me to bring the axle to him, wait on it and then return it with a chance that the job could be done in one day. The idea of having to replace the axle with a new or rebuilt unit obtained locally (none to be had) or online just to save time didn't make sense to me because the car has only 17K miles on it and even with the torn boot there are no driveability problems and no noise.
But if worst comes to worse and I have to go with a replacement, "Cadillacs Only" in CA has an OE rebuilt unit for $250 plus $35 shipping - not cheap. There are several online suppliers: Cardone, EMPI, Trakmotive/Surtrak, APWI, and others that sell it for about $100 and they all claim their products are wonderful, conform to ISO standards, etc - all the usual hype...and then you read the complaints! Any recommendations? -- I've heard that Cardone's the best bet and available from Rock Auto. There's also a rebuilder called Detroit Axle that I saw online, but their reviews were horrible.
Again, a million thanks for your comments and advice and I'll let you all know how I make out. Oh, how I miss driving that big land yacht..!
I put a Cardone reman axle on my 78 2 years ago...3000 miles later and no problems with it...it was $45 plus the core at the time.
Bill
ISO just means the process is documented and you document that you are following the document. They don't necessarily tell you what the document says, it could specify that they are making crap with wide tolerances.
I'm a devoted follower of Murphy, who created a certain "law". So, I went ahead and bought the Cardone reman. 60-1014 drive axle in case something goes wrong with the removal and rebooting of the axle off my car. I'm personally taking it to the rebuilder that my shop uses and has arranged to work on it while I wait and then bring it back to the shop, thus minimizing the time my car needs to be on one of only two lifts in the shop. If for any reason something goes wrong and the axle can't be reused... a la "Murphy's Law"... I'll have the Cardone unit "standing by" ready to go in thus avoiding the wrath of an unhappy shop owner.
Several of you recommended the Cardone A-1 reman. unit. Bought it online at Rock Auto. for about $60 plus core. A very encouraging thing about it is right next to the listing of the axle in the catalog it showed the exact OE part no. that's given in the GM parts list. If all goes well with the axle on the car, I'll just return the Cardone unit to Rock Auto. A bird in the hand.... as they say. Thx again all for your help. I'll let you know how I make out.
Regards.. Paul Jacobs
Quote from: Jakes on April 30, 2016, 06:10:07 PM
I'm a devoted follower of Murphy, who created a certain "law". So, I went ahead and bought the Cardone reman. 60-1014 drive axle in case something goes wrong with the removal and rebooting of the axle off my car. I'm personally taking it to the rebuilder that my shop uses and has arranged to work on it while I wait and then bring it back to the shop, thus minimizing the time my car needs to be on one of only two lifts in the shop. If for any reason something goes wrong and the axle can't be reused... a la "Murphy's Law"... I'll have the Cardone unit "standing by" ready to go in thus avoiding the wrath of an unhappy shop owner.
Several of you recommended the Cardone A-1 reman. unit. Bought it online at Rock Auto. for about $60 plus core. A very encouraging thing about it is right next to the listing of the axle in the catalog it showed the exact OE part no. that's given in the GM parts list. If all goes well with the axle on the car, I'll just return the Cardone unit to Rock Auto. A bird in the hand.... as they say. Thx again all for your help. I'll let you know how I make out.
Regards.. Paul Jacobs
This may not be the last time. Just keep a spare (rebooted at your convenience) and
it will never keep your car off the road for long. The drivers side I believe will fit
either side of your car.
After this discussion I did the same; bought an inexpensive Cardone rebuilt
for my 79. I'll have to grind notches in the flange to fit my 78 final drive
adapter, but it will boost my spare count. My several spare sets dropped in
half when I decided to use only drivers side half shafts. Bruce Roe
If the one you bought looks to be an older part, not new and the boots are currently nice and soft I think I would just keep it. If there are now China replacements available the good old American steel rebuilds may be much harder to find. Many of us now wish we had the slightly worn parts we threw away or sent back for the $1 core charge years ago because they were 100% better quality than what we can buy now.
Quote from: TJ Hopland
If the one you bought looks to be an older part, not new and the boots are currently nice and soft I think I would just keep it. If there are now China replacements available the good old American steel rebuilds may be much harder to find. Many of us now wish we had the slightly worn parts we threw away or sent back for the $1 core charge years ago because they were 100% better quality than what we can buy now.
Right, if serious about maintaining an old car, best not to throw anything away.
Bruce Roe
Quote from: bcroe on May 05, 2016, 09:33:12 PM
Right, if serious about maintaining an old car, best not to throw anything away. Bruce Roe
I don't, unless it is totally worn out, useless, or cannot be repaired.
This is why I am having another of my "re-arrangements" in my garage at the present time. Boy, the things one finds.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Jakes on April 30, 2016, 06:10:07 PM
I'm a devoted follower of Murphy, who created a certain "law". So, I went ahead and bought the Cardone reman. 60-1014 drive axle in case something goes wrong with the removal and rebooting of the axle off my car. I'm personally taking it to the rebuilder that my shop uses and has arranged to work on it while I wait and then bring it back to the shop, thus minimizing the time my car needs to be on one of only two lifts in the shop. If for any reason something goes wrong and the axle can't be reused... a la "Murphy's Law"... I'll have the Cardone unit "standing by" ready to go in thus avoiding the wrath of an unhappy shop owner.
This had been a very useful discussion.... I decided to have my mechanic go ahead and install the Cardone 60-1014 rebuilt OE axle and I'll hold on to the axle off the car for a later rebuild at the shop's rebuilder. I have the OE outer boot and the inner boot/housing (Mevotech D536) is on its way in case they're needed by the rebuilder. My mechanic also said that, from what he's seen on these rebuilds, the outer cage-ball-race ass'y is just cleaned up and reversed in the outer race to put the stress on the lesser worn side. The Cardone unit is rebuilt with a bellows outer boot which apparently is more resistant to splitting with turns over time.
(//)
Many thanks for all you advice and comments. I'll update on how I make out.
Regards.. Paul
Hooray!! ;D Had the bad axle replaced today with the rebuilt Cardone unit...SUCCESS (but let's hope the unit has long life)! My mechanic had to remove the shock and loosen the lower control arm in addition to separating the upper arm from the knuckle. He had no trouble loosening the big 1.5" spindle nut (..which I soaked with Silikroil last night) that I don't think was ever removed in 38 years.. And my guy assured me that all fittings were torqued to spec. I'll have the original axle rebuilt with the inner and outer boots I found online and keep it as a spare.
Strange thing: the boot bands on the bad axle are continuous -- no crimp or other union that I could see. How did they do that? Thx again for all your input.
Regards...
Paul Jacobs
I'll try to put my 79 in Tues. You can loosen the big nut by putting a long
wrench on it, handle on the ground, and driving the car forward a foot or
so for the right; backward for the left. If I forget, I take the handle off
my floor jack to make a 6' handle extension. Bruce Roe
Thought you gentlemen would like to see the original axle off the car, reconditioned and rebooted by Baires Driveline in Lindenhurst, Long Island, NY. It cost $75 including the boots they supplied. If they used the boots I had it would have cost $45, so for the difference of 30 bucks I decided to hold on to mine as spares along with the rebuilt axle. Note the original style outer boot.
I mentioned earlier that the original bands were one-piece with no crimping. I broke them apart and found that they were made of annealed copper - very flexible, but how they sealed the boots in one piece is beyond me.
Paul
(//)
Quote from: Jakes on May 13, 2016, 12:45:43 AM
....... I broke them apart and found that they were made of annealed copper - very flexible, but how they sealed the boots in one piece is beyond me. Paul
Probably with a special machine that simply squeezed the ring to a smaller diameter whilst in situ.
Bruce. >:D
Thanks to the discussion motivation, I also got my Cardone rebuilt left half
shaft installed on the right side of my 79 Eldo. They supplied a different style
nut, but the original with its cotter key locking was reused.
There seem to be 5 pairs here, but only using left shafts means I have 5 .
With 2 in the car, guess I should get the other 3 rebuilt & ready. Only one
has the notches I must grind in the flange for my adapter plate. One looks
good otherwise, perhaps with different style boots. Maybe its an 85, or
a rebuilt?
Anyway, I wonder if both sides use the same parts from the inner CV joint
outward, guess some needing boots could be taken apart and compared.
From what I see in my parts book, they are all the same. I really need to
come up with an E car tool for splitting that upper ball joint. Bruce Roe
If anyone has ever used a PEX ring crimper you understand how the 1 piece copper bands work on the boot.
Bill