Hello,
I have a 1962 Series 62 and recently had the exhaust manifolds replaced by a locale "classic car" shop. They replaced the both exhaust manifolds and smoother minor work. I took the car directly from that shop and put it in body shop for four months of body work and paint.
On the way home from the body shop I stopped and the car would not start, during the AAA call, we noticed that the positive battery cable was against the exhaust manifold and had nearly melted in half.
I took the car back to the shop. He stated that the positive leads on the started had melted away from over cranking the engine. He had the started leads repaired and also rebuilt the generator.
Here is my question, the repair shop said that the battery cable melting would not cause the leads on the started to melt and that it was also not related to the generator going bad. Is this true?
The shop charged me $550 to repair the leads on the starter and rebuild the generator. The first day I left the shop the generator light came on again and the car died. I called the shop and he wants me to bring it in again. I am not certain he knows what he is doing and I feel like I have been taken advantage of. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Looks like auto correct may not be helping here.
You took took the more or less properly operating car to a shop that often works on old cars to get a few things improved? One of the things was new battery cables?
You drove it from that shop to a body shop, all went well and seemed normal?
Body shop finishes their work and does not comment on having issues starting the car? You pick it up but don't look or at least look close under the hood? On the way home it quits and you see the melted cable?
The melted spot in the cable is just part way along the cable? Not a splice or connection or support clamp? Like it just got melted by the hot manifold?
The shop that you took it to after that said that was not the only bad spot, it was also melted down at the starter?
If the cable melted and touched the manifold, it would be a direct short. The current flowing thru the wire would have made it quite hot and could have melted the ends especially if they were corroded. So that is a possibility
I was a little confused about your other problems.
Jeff
You are lucky that you didn't burn most of the wiring harness or the entire car.
The positive battery lead touching the hot exhaust manifold would cause the insulation to burn off, creating a dead short and making that cable RED hot. It would melt the connector at the starter and some of the other wiring too. It could also burn up the generator and the regulator.
I can't answer whether or not the shop is taking advantage or just inept, but there shouldn't have been anything in the body and paint work that would have changed the location of the cable.
Your problem can be anything from a faulty generator or regulator, to a loose connection, of a problem in the wiring between the generator and the requlator. There is also a thin wire connecting from the regulator to the positive battery cable that has an inline fuse. If there is a bad fuse or a bad connection on that wire, your light will come on.
Good Luck,
Brian
Thanks very much for the replies, I really appreciate the help.
Thought I checked the message better, I'll try again.
The repair shop replaced both exhaust manifolds, and they replaced the valve cover gaskets, because they were leaking a bit of oil. The car then went directly to the body shop.
I mentioned that I took it in for body work, to call attention to the fact that the car was basically unproven for almost 4 months. The day I picked it up from the body shop, it would not start, so they jumped it, and off I went.
On the way home from the body shop I stopped and the car would not even turn over. That is when we noticed that the positive battery cable was against the exhaust manifold. The wire was melted, it was nearly melted in half.
I had the car towed to a local chain tire store, because I thought it would only need a new battery cable. They informed me that one of the bolts had come out of the exhaust manifold and that the gasket was blown out. They also told me that I needed a new starter. Based on that, I had it towed back to the original shop, that put on the exhaust manifold.
The original repair shop said that the body shop must have been over cranking the engine and that they melted the leads on the starter.
He had the starter leads repaired and rebuilt the generator. The day I picked it up, I noticed that the generator light was blinking on, so I mentioned it was still on and was told that was because it was idling so low. Once I was on the freeway, the generator light still blinked on and off a few times and later that day the car died and required a jump.
I am thinking that the repair shop did not bolt on the battery cable after replacing the exhaust manifold, and that is was caused the starter to short out and the generator to fail.
Sorry, yes the battery cable way laying directly on the exhaust manifold
I think I would check the charging voltage at the battery. If it is not charging correctly and the generator is rebuilt I would look at the regulator.
Randy
Sounds like overall very poor workmanship.
The Exhaust place would be the first place I would suspect, and having an exhaust manifold bolt come loose, that in itself is a sign of poor workmanship.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 09, 2016, 02:10:21 AM
Sounds like overall very poor workmanship.
The Exhaust place would be the first place I would suspect, and having an exhaust manifold bolt come loose, that in itself is a sign of poor workmanship.
Bruce. >:D
I agree, the shop that replaced the exhaust manifolds should've saw that the bat cable was touching the manifold, and at the very least they could've tried to zip tie the cable away from it, or else tell you it is in the way and that you might have to replace it with a longer or shorter one. That sucks. :-[
Mine came out if the clamp a couple of years ago and hit the manifold. I went ahead and wrapped the cable in a piece of rubber fuel line where it goes past the manifold. This way it is a bit of extra protection in case it comes loose again. Not quite stock but makes me feel better.
Jeff
Agree when I read your post it is most like the shop that repaired the exhaust manifolds. There was likely a clip close to the manifold to keep the starter wire from touching them and had to be removed to do the job. It probably was not replaced, and went unnoticed until the purpose of the clip that held the wire away from the manifold became apparent after leaving the body shop.
The shop that repaired electrical issues after this is not to blame for your problems. They may not have found every electrical issue that this dead short caused. Further, the electrical shop could have made faulty repairs, but the source of your trouble started with the exhaust manifold work IMO. Unfortunately this is fairly typical of the shops out there and has resulted in me doing all my own work whenever possible. It is not because I cannot afford to have others work on my Cadillac, but because if others do work on it they always do something like this.
I even started a post on a tell us what the last shop did and why you do your own work topic. This would fit right in.
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on August 09, 2016, 07:57:14 AM
Agree when I read your post it is most like the shop that repaired the exhaust manifolds. There was likely a clip close to the manifold to keep the starter wire from touching them and had to be removed to do the job. It probably was not replaced, and went unnoticed until the purpose of the clip that held the wire away from the manifold became apparent after leaving the body shop.
The shop that repaired electrical issues after this is not to blame for your problems. They may not have found every electrical issue that this dead short caused. Further, the electrical shop could have made faulty repairs, but the source of your trouble started with the exhaust manifold work IMO. Unfortunately this is fairly typical of the shops out there and has resulted in me doing all my own work whenever possible. It is not because I cannot afford to have others work on my Cadillac, but because if others do work on it they always do something like this.
I even started a post on a tell us what the last shop did and why you do your own work topic. This would fit right in.
Exactly Scott, shops will never treat or do the little things ( as in looking at the details) like you would do to your own car as all of them are on some sort of time crunch as they are trying to get the job done as fast as they can.
Some things I can't do myself, so I take it to a shop that I honestly trust which is so important that all of us classic Caddy owners build a trust and bonding relationship with a shop and or a mechanic that you know will treat your car as well as you treat it, and really wants to fix the problem correctly because he likes the car just as much as you do.
The biggest problem with doing jobs yourself arise when you are working on a used car that you have purchased, and previous owners have done prior work on it that didn't conform to original specifications. I have never personally owned a new car, so everything that I have has been previously "played" with. Some have been butchered, which is why I got them cheap. Up until my last car, which was five years old, everything prior to that has been a minimum of ten years old, and therefore affordable for cash.
I am lucky that I am self-taught, and took it upon myself to purchase the Shop Manual for every car that I have owned, before starting to "play" with it, and had to follow the shop manual instructions to the letter.
When one is doing repairs, or maintenance, it is imperative that stuff is left as the maker made it, unless you are modifying it, and actually understand the requirements for completing such modifications successfully.
Some of us humans do need to have work done because they either don't have the tools, or the knowledge to perform the tasks, and it is here where a competent shop is tasked with the work.
If that work is poorly done, then problems happen, and in the aforementioned problems, the shops shouldn't be in business, or should actually refuse to perform work that they cannot properly perform.
Bruce. >:D
Had the same thing happen to me in a 1974 SdV.
Short occurred on the highway at 60 mph which caused a backfire so large that it literally blew a brand new exhaust system to shreds. The only other damage was to the battery which was cooked.
On a 62, there are 2 or 3 retaining tabs on the passenger side inner fender for holding the battery to starter cable and the generator to regulator wires tight against the inner fender. Keeps the whole thing a good 6-8" away from the manifold. Sounds like someone did not follow the factory routing.
Additionally, there should be a cloth shield on the cable for the last foot or so.
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on August 09, 2016, 10:56:54 AM
On a 62, there are 2 or 3 retaining tabs on the passenger side inner fender for holding the battery to starter cable and the generator to regulator wires tight against the inner fender. Keeps the whole thing a good 6-8" away from the manifold.
Or a replacement cable is too long and does not tightly follow the correct routing. I had to cut a few inches off of mine to prevent slop.
Jeff
Bruce,
I could not agree more, self taught and make it like factory. Most of climate control repairs are detective work from previous "people" that worked on the car, screws thru sensor wires that short them out and the like.
Thanks to everyone, very helpful, I think I should ask to be reimbursed for the repairs to the generator, seems reasonable that this shops negligence created my issue, and I hate to pay someone else to finish what I have already paid this shop to repair, but I have lost confidence in this shop and want this repaired correctly.
Anyone know a good repair shop in St. Louis? Thanks again.
The shop that worked on the exhaust manifolds owes you the refund, not the shop that attempted to repair electrical issues subsequent to the exhaust work.
Thanks to everyone!