Asking for a friend.
Are the windows hydro electric or all electrically operated?
Hydro with nasty brake fluid that can ruin your paint and upholstery...
It's funny, Carl Steig (and I think Ann still has) the full custom 1941 60S with electric windows. And once we were discussing that GM had also put hydraulics in a few cars to "test" which system was best. Of course, with only six volts to work with, the Hydraulics may have come out on top for overall dependability.
Steve Plunkett also owns a 1941 custom Limo, built for royalty, (41-62190), the so-called "Duchess". Plunkett describes it as a one off stretched Limo. That car has power windows which Schneider described as hydraulic, (can't recall if upgraded to electric). A buddy of mine changed his 1952 Fleetwood 60 Special to electric from hydraulic, (think his system was also upgraded to 12 volts). As Barry stated 1952 was hydraulic, which I think was the last year for that system (as well as 6 volts). Clay/Lexi
Thanks for the information.
Quote from: lexi on January 10, 2019, 10:26:21 AM
Steve Plunkett also owns a 1941 custom Limo, built for royalty, (41-62190), the so-called "Duchess". Plunkett describes it as a one off stretched Limo. That car has power windows which Schneider described as hydraulic, (can't recall if upgraded to electric). A buddy of mine changed his 1952 Fleetwood 60 Special to electric from hydraulic, (think his system was also upgraded to 12 volts). As Barry stated 1952 was hydraulic, which I think was the last year for that system (as well as 6 volts). Clay/Lexi
12v came in 1953
Full electric windows and seat came in 1954.
Hello all,
New to the forum - first post. Ive revived this topic just to avoid flooding the forum with the hydro-electric windows subject.
Monday I got my first vintage caddy - a 52 Coupe de ville, very excited about it.
so Ive decided to flush the DOT 3 out of the system since the door paint got the usual DOT 3 scar at the bottom.
My plan is to use denatured alcohol and ive ordered the leaky cylinder replacement.
I will also be replacing the rubber hoses so i can use ATF and not worry about it
questions:
Are the doors the only rubber hose sections? or do rear windows and seat have any as well?
Pump hoses appear newish - do those also need replacing for ATF?
How many flushes is safe for the pump gears using the denatured alcohol?
Need to get the hoses out this weekend to get replacements made next week...
thanks everyone!
cheers
oscar
I replaced all of the hyd. cyl. on my 51 with elect. motors and gears from some rice burner I found at the wrecking yard.. just took a little time...., getting the angles right to push the windows up and down .. they have been working good now for a few years... I have pictures..........
Gene Harl ....................CLC22406......... 775-423-8568
Quote from: gene harl on December 12, 2019, 03:13:14 PM
I replaced all of the hyd. cyl. on my 51 with elect. motors and gears from some rice burner I found at the wrecking yard.. just took a little time...., getting the angles right to push the windows up and down .. they have been working good now for a few years... I have pictures..........
Gene Harl ....................CLC22406......... 775-423-8568
thanks Gene! I am interested - did you convert to 12V? curious if those 6 to 12 V stop up converters would do the trick...
what about the regulator gear? was that out of junkyard car too?
Im trying to stay original as this car is pretty unmolested, but always willling to keep an open mind...
Can I text you later for those pics?
Go to www.ebay.com Put 1952 Cadillac Shop Manual in their Search engine. You will find several for sale, the reprints are OK but the originals have clearer illustrations --- cheap, buy one! Also buy a Fisher Body Manual, believe the one you want covers '49 to '52 and it covers all GM lines. You will thank me for it (I hope). ;D
Converting to all electric is a neat idea if you are not striving for complete originality. Gene Harl's suggestion is good if you have the ability. For more money, Specialty Power Windows http://spwkits.clickforward.com/ has an excellent and very compete kit --- they have a universal one that would be right for your car.
Hmmm, forgot about the 6 volt thing, best to talk to Specialty about that if you go with them.
Quote from: 35-709 on December 12, 2019, 03:55:11 PM
Go to www.ebay.com Put 1952 Cadillac Shop Manual in their Search engine. You will find several for sale, the reprints are OK but the originals have clearer illustrations --- cheap, buy one! Also buy a Fisher Body Manual, believe the one you want covers '49 to '52 and it covers all GM lines. You will thank me for it (I hope). ;D
Converting to all electric is a neat idea if you are not striving for complete originality. Gene Harl's suggestion is good if you have the ability. For more money, Specialty Power Windows http://spwkits.clickforward.com/ has an excellent and very compete kit --- they have a universal one that would be right for your car.
Hmmm, forgot about the 6 volt thing, best to talk to Specialty about that if you go with them.
Hello G.,
Thanks for the links! will check them out. I actually have the shop manual that the previous owner gave me with the car. - would be nice to find a factory assembly manual but ebay isnt showing one.
Unless Im missing something, all i could find was the wiring diagram. I managed to google one but it was for a 49 Merc, which appeared pretty similar and shows rubber hoses at the doors and pump only but wanted to verify.
The car is a few hrs away, so M-F i have no access to check little details - weekend comes and I try to be as prepared as possible.
I have a 52 Fleetwood and it was previously converted to 12 v and the windows are electric. However due to the older and tired motors I ended up upgrading to the specialty PW universal system...much better, more reliable. The mechanic had to do minimal work to door panels to add the kit.
Specialty was excellent to work with.
Good luck, I am very happy the car did not have original hydro system based on all the potential issues.
Peter
There is an outfit in Sebastian, FL that sells large, full color electrical diagrams for just about any old car you can name ---even a '52 Caddy :). I bought one for the '42 I used to own. I will post their website here a little later, I don't find it right now but I still have the '42 diagram in the shop with their contact info on it.
Ah! Just found it ---
Classic Car Wiring
PO Box 780012
Sebastian, FL 32978
Phone or Fax: (888)606-5319
order one on their website --- https://www.classiccarwiring.com/
They are good-size and clearly done.
Quote from: 35-709 on December 12, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Ah! Just found it ---
Classic Car Wiring
PO Box 780012
Sebastian, FL 32978
Phone or Fax: (888)606-5319
order one on their website --- https://www.classiccarwiring.com/
They are good-size and clearly done.
THank you! i actually pass by Sebastian every FRI and SUN...
So i just called Universal, the tech was unsure about the 6V to 12 V converter- I'm sure someone has come across this but he didn't know for sure -
I do want to use a 12V radio, so that can be the test-case....still giving 6 V system a chance before jumping to conclusions about converting.
:) I'm in Vero Beach!
Geoff N.
that's awesome! it wont be long before it's road worthy and I will take it from Orlando to S FL and back again, will keep you posted!
Very good! Bring it by.
About using a 6V to 12V step up converter.
If you add a 12V battery ( say from a lawn tractor ) independent of the car's 6V battery
….then a step up converter might do you.
This is because while the peak amp draw might be significant, …. the average
overall amp draw is modest such that the converter can keep up with
the average amp requirement.
We added an electric power steering unit to our 1937 Cadillac
which of course is 6V ( positive ground )
These EPS unit can draw a lot of amps...in excess
of 30 amps in some circumstances. But only for a brief period.
By adding a separate 12V lawn tractor battery and a step up converter( 6V to 12V)
….we were able to provide enough amps overall to run the
EPS. The converter puts out only a few amps
but again overall amp draw is modest for an EPS even
though peak amps is high.
Jack Worstell
,,,,,,,one of our biggest problems with the converter was the poor instructions that come with
some of these things...….
Quote from: jackworstell on December 13, 2019, 07:42:23 AM
About using a 6V to 12V step up converter.
If you add a 12V battery ( say from a lawn tractor ) independent of the car's 6V battery
….then a step up converter might do you.
This is because while the peak amp draw might be significant, …. the average
overall amp draw is modest such that the converter can keep up with
the average amp requirement.
We added an electric power steering unit to our 1937 Cadillac
which of course is 6V ( positive ground )
These EPS unit can draw a lot of amps...in excess
of 30 amps in some circumstances. But only for a brief period.
By adding a separate 12V lawn tractor battery and a step up converter( 6V to 12V)
….we were able to provide enough amps overall to run the
EPS. The converter puts out only a few amps
but again overall amp draw is modest for an EPS even
though peak amps is high.
Jack Worstell
,,,,,,,one of our biggest problems with the converter was the poor instructions that come with
some of these things...….
Hello Jack -
thanks for this insight! i will state up front that electrical is not my strength - I know just enough to be dangerous.
so in reading what you did - how did you incorporate the 12V tractor battery into the charging system?
Also, if the electrical power steering is 12 volt, and so is the additional battery, is the 6 - 12 V step up converter still necessary? I thought the converter is needed if there were no 12V source.
Where did you mount the 12 batt? under the hood? in the trunk? very interested, since I'd like to run a period correct looking 12V radio and maybe the windows now too.
thanks!
oscar
my 51 has 2 6volt battery's for a 12volt system and a continuous duty solenoid center taping for the 6 volt stuff..it works great... if you want to know how ,,, my phone # 775-423-8568.... I also use the 6 volt starter rewiring the fields... this is 5 years and 8000 miles..
Gene Harl.... CLC22406
thanks Gene! that does sound interesting, will give a call this weekend if that's OK -
Oscar
305.951.7929
Just my two cents worth:
The hydraulic system worked well when the components were new or in good condition. You can get replacement parts readily from Hydro-Lectric in Florida.
Systems which have not been maintained, flushed, etc., are bound to fail after 70 years.
I had a '49 convertible for many years, and after service and restoration, the hydraulics were fine, and as original. Perhaps keeping the hydraulic system is more important in a convertible as it also operates the top.
With new cylinders, hoses, etc., leaks are unlikely; with ATF your paint isn't at risk.
I always go for originality. For me, it's part of the heritage, and fun.
Dennis
Quote from: denniscaddy on December 13, 2019, 01:43:02 PM
Just my two cents worth:
The hydraulic system worked well when the components were new or in good condition. You can get replacement parts readily from Hydro-Lectric in Florida.
Systems which have not been maintained, flushed, etc., are bound to fail after 70 years.
I had a '49 convertible for many years, and after service and restoration, the hydraulics were fine, and as original. Perhaps keeping the hydraulic system is more important in a convertible as it also operates the top.
With new cylinders, hoses, etc., leaks are unlikely; with ATF your paint isn't at risk.
I always go for originality. For me, it's part of the heritage, and fun.
Dennis
Hello Dennis - agree 100%, i just ordered one cylinder from Hydro-lectric - should be in my mailbox today. will be trying that first. i do like the two 6v batteries in series idea, but admittedly know very little about it. first preference is to stay as close to original as possible...
In 1952 Hydro was standard on Fleetwood, Coupe DeVille, and Convertible. It was a fairly common option in Series 62 models (Series 61 had been discontinued). All cars that had the Hydro system included a power front seat as part of the system. Of course the convertible had the Hydro top.
The Hydro system in my '52 Series 62 Sedan was rebuilt about 10,000 miles ago, before I had the car. All parts came from Hydro-Lectric, and it was an expensive process (I have their manual and the paperwork/receipts.) But the system does work just as new today.
My question: Does the Universal system for electric windows include a change for the seat? If not, there's still some Hydro but of course not in the doors...
John Emerson
1952 Cadillac Sedan 6219X
Oscar
The 6V systems and the 12V systems are independent.
The only connection is that 6V is fed to the 6V to 12V converter and then this in turn
keeps the 12V battery charged.
These converters ( or at least the ones I've seen ) put out 10 amps tops
….and depending on input volts to output volts ratio...often closer to 5amps tops
So this scheme will work out only when average amp draw is modest.
I suppose you could put two of more converters in parallel
( they are small and inexpensive) and get more amps but
I've never tried this
Jack Worstell
So Gene....
......Do you have one of those series/parallel circuits installed ?
I've always been intrigued by these gadgets but never have installed on.
Jack Worstell
Before anyone asks....these series/parallel circuits can be set up
for either positive ground or negative ground.
The guys at Texas Industrial Electric ( San Antonio TX ) are knowledgeable
about these things.
I'm surprised that these aren't more commonly used.
A six volt car will start in just a few seconds with one of these circuits because the starter will see 12V
But the rest of the car sees 6V ( except the starter solenoid which like the starter, will
see 12V.....probably a good idea to switch the solenoid out to a 12V one
if using a series/parallel circuit )
Cost is a few hundred dollars and virtually no changes have to be made to the car's electrical system
other than adding in the series/parallel circuit and possibly switching out the solenoid.
Jack Worstell
"My question: Does the Universal system for electric windows include a change for the seat? If not, there's still some Hydro but of course not in the doors..."
No.
Quote from: jackworstell on December 14, 2019, 08:38:53 AM
Oscar
The 6V systems and the 12V systems are independent.
The only connection is that 6V is fed to the 6V to 12V converter and then this in turn
keeps the 12V battery charged.
These converters ( or at least the ones I've seen ) put out 10 amps tops
….and depending on input volts to output volts ratio...often closer to 5amps tops
So this scheme will work out only when average amp draw is modest.
I suppose you could put two of more converters in parallel
( they are small and inexpensive) and get more amps but
I've never tried this
Jack Worstell
Thanks Jack, this is very helpful
Quote from: 35-709 on December 12, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Ah! Just found it ---
Classic Car Wiring
PO Box 780012
Sebastian, FL 32978
Phone or Fax: (888)606-5319
order one on their website --- https://www.classiccarwiring.com/
They are good-size and clearly done.
I bought one of the www.classiccarwiring.com wiring diagrams for my '49. It is clear and easy to read, but it is lacking an important piece of information: the gauge (thickness) of each wire and, I think, the original color of the individual wires. This is important to know when replacing wires or even to understand how some parts of the system work. I have the www.classiccarwiring.com diagram hung up on a wall in my garage for display, but I actually use the diagram in the shop manual which has all the needed information.