Any recommendations for seat belts vendor? Also how are they installed? I don’t see where they would bolt to anything? Any help on direction for install would be great! Thank you.
I got mine for the rear seats of my '35 Cadillac and '50 Jaguar from --- https://www.seatbeltplanet.com
Just Google --- seat belts for vintage cars --- and you will have a large choice. Installation instructions will come with the belts --- you will be drilling holes.
I got mine at Wesco but 35-709 is correct. Just google seat belts and places will come up. I put 3 point belts in the 55. You will be drilling holes in the floor and then huge washers go on the underside to disburse the load.
Good luck.
Jeff
The seat belt vendors offer mounting kits that include beefier washers, but I prefer to use something heftier. Home Depot sells thick (maybe 1/4â€) square steel plates intended for construction use that are larger and thicker than the washers included in the belt kits.
I wouldn't (and didn't) put belts in a 59 with the stock front seat.
Anchored to the floor, if you were in a wreck and the thousand pound seat pulled off the tracks that belt would try to tear you in half.
JMO
Interesting point about the bench seat detaching from the track. Anyone know of a way to attach the belts to the seat itself?
Good point about the seat. However there is no perfect solution. I would rather take my chances with a belt than without. However going with the point about the seat, no reason couldn't put longer bolts thru the threads and have it stick out below the floor and then put a thick washer/plate with a bolt to reinforce it.
Couldn't hurt.
Jeff
Agreed there is no perfect solution.
My only thought would be to put an additional set of small (6-8in long) straps from the seat belt mounting points on the floor (just stacked) to the underside of the seat.
Rearmost but on the seat itself so if the track did blow apart it would limit seat movement. (but long enough to still give you seat adjustment within the range you need it)
The biggest problem with fitting seat belts to a seat that was not designed for seat belts is in the actual design of the seat itself.
Firstly. The Cadillac for 1959, in a Coupe or Convertible doesn't have seat back catches to stop the seat back from falling forward in a crash.
Secondly. The shape of the seat base, where it sits under the seat back does not allow for the inner belt webbing to go in a straight line to the floor mounting point. The "S" shaped travel would cause the belt to try and straighten itself in the event of a crash, thereby slackening off the belting.
For belts to be installed correctly, and that means to actually work when required, and not simply look pretty, major surgery has to be done to fit seat back catches, and install through the seat base holes to make the webbing line straight.
The first pictures are the webbing routing for a '55 GM car, showing the area of travel without cutting, and the second lot is from a '69 SDV, following the Factory alignment, and the sleeve that was made to stop any fraying of the webbing where it went past the seat springs.
Doing this to a '59 would result in the springs having to be cut for clearance, as in the '69, the Factory made the allowance when the springs were made.
If only everything was plain and simple.
Bruce. >:D
Paul,
I have posted on this issue a couple of times.
I think it highly unlikely that the bench seat would separate from the seat frame - all-be-it power or manual.
The bolts to the track frames are beefy and so is the track metal top and bottom including the mechanism itself.
However, I have suggested the failure would come from the track pulling out of the floor threaded tubes in the floor sheet metal, as there is no frame on an "X" frame of the 59's.
Why might it fail, because of the likelihood of rusting out particularly with a convertible, or because the car's sheet metal is 50+ years old.
In this case - and the other models - I would drill down through those threaded tubes and affix the lower track bolts down through the floor sheet metal through hefty SQUARE plates to the nuts and lock washers below. David has the right idea because the kits have thinner circular plates with smaller diameters in those kits than the larger squares you should buy.
Nothing to be done about the seat backs having no locks.
Here is a diagram of the mounting points for seat belts - which were offered at the time - for the 59 models.
Have fun,
Steve B.
No way the seat would rip out of the floor. And if you hit anything with that much force the steering column is going to kill you anyway.
Brian
"Firstly. The Cadillac for 1959, in a Coupe or Convertible doesn't have seat back catches to stop the seat back from falling forward in a crash."
Bruce:
I thought the same, but the caddy engineers must have thought this through, not the belt part, but the seat back part. In my 49, the front seat back cannot be pulled forward much when the door is closed as the back is blocked by the door armrest. It does move some but not enough to shove you into the steering wheel as the driver, or the dash as the passenger. I can't speak to the 59 but that is the way my 49 sedannette is.
And your are correct about the "s" bend but I still bolted the belts to the floor. I thought about the rear of the seat frame but that didn't look stronger than the thick washer under the floorboard.
Ciao,
Mario Caimotto
Quote from: 76eldo on November 05, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
No way the seat would rip out of the floor. And if you hit anything with that much force the steering column is going to kill you anyway.
Brian
No way? This is an extreme example but still, that seat has to weigh close to 100lbs complete. Don't think it would take a head on collision to pull it off the tracks.
If you look at the way the old tracks were made (would describe as v groove) vs new seats with integrated belts (J hook or better) it's easy to see that there isn't much keeping it from separating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-WYKYrq5FI
There is no way that the seat weighs anyway near 1000 lbs. unless there are a couple of very large people sitting on it. A number of years ago I single-handedly removed the front seat from my ‘59 60S (which has the “Marshall type†individual pocketed coil springs, and is much heavier than the simple wire-sprung seats in a regular coupe or sedan) in order to load it in a station wagon to be reupholstered. It was hard work and required creative use of 2x4’s, but there is no way I could have done that if the seat weighed 1000 lbs, or even 500.
If you do want to attach your belts (or at least the outer ends) to the seat frame, there is a way to do it. When I got my Seville, the outer belts were attached to the rear seat frame mounting bolts. The bolts had been replaced with longer bolts, with a spare lug nut used as a spacer to raise the seat belt mounting plate up to clear the seat track. This concerned me, because in the event of an accident, if the seat came loose, I would not want to be belted to a flying seat. So I move the mounting points back to the floor plan. Of course as others have noted, if you hit something hard enough to cause the seat to tear away, you are probably going to have a bunch of other factors contributing to your injuries.
Jim,
Thanks for the link.
Now the 1962 Sedan (a closed car with more strength due to 2 extra doors than a Coupe or Convertible) was 3 years newer than a 1959 and went up against a 40 year newer lighter car - the 62 still lost its front BENCH seat - stronger than a split back bench & made it past the closed front doors and their arm rests.
In my mind, there is no question that if anyone is thinking of having seat belts put into their 59 (and you should any classic car), don't think or hope for a minute that the seat is going to stay in place.
You may hope for he best, but prepare for the worst.
I wouldn't put my life at risk or any other family member or friend, on the maybe it wouldn't happen so bad.
I recall there is another film that shows a 59 Chevy go up against another newer car at the Chevy lost big time.
There are pics from a 59 driven by an older gentleman (OK like me) that tangled with another car on an off ramp of a freeway - nasty wreck up to the windshield.
Have fun, and use the larger dimension heavier SQUARE plates, not the thinner round washers which may go through old sheet metal floors easier - LAST WORDS, the horse aint moov'n.
Steve B.
Amazingly with all the pictures of the 55 that I have on this phone, I don't have any good ones of the belts. I have the reel out board of the seats at the B pillar and the shoulder mount on the B pillar.
I realize that if anything "real" were to happen we would be in big trouble. But I just couldn't have my kid driving around with nothing. Hopefully it would keep someone from kissing the dash, windshield or steering wheel and hopefully keep someone from being ejected.
Best I can do.
Jeff
David, I said 1000lbs in jest. My last post referenced it to "close to 100lbs"
Steve. Agreed.
I installed seats with integrated belts into another classic car I have but also anchored it to through-floor subframe connectors.
Quite a project.