I am a newcomer to Facebook, and have "joined" ac couple of the Cadillac specialty groups. There are some absolutely spectacular cars and there is an enthusiastic audience. True, most of the cars have been "bagged", and a lot of them have the ubiquitous LS motors in them, but many are restorations of show car quality.
My purpose in mentioning this here is that we (CLS club) seem to be missing a bet by not being more welcoming to these cars. These are the future "old fogies" we have seeming become.
Greg Surfas
There was a lengthy discussion on this very topic some months ago or maybe it has bene a year now. I didn't even realize there was a "modified chapter" of the CLC. It took some surfing around the CLC website to find it.
I would recommend the first thing is to have the modified chapter as a easy to find listing on the same page as the "cars for sale" and "parts for sale" and "general discussion." This will make it easier to find and people will click the tab and explore and use it more often.
I think there is importance to preserving Cadillac vehicles in it's original form and the present forum categories for this should be kept unchanged as such. But I also think it is equally important to give the modified chapter equal importance and develop it more...and putting a link on the same main forum page to make it more accessible is the first step.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I would also agree that the Modified category be easier to find. I didn't know there was one. I admire and appreciate the restored cars, but I know that due to the prices used/new parts cost that I'll never get mine to that status. I'll likely go down the path of some modifications due to costs.
I joined the CLC probably about 15 or 16 years ago now when I was in my early 20's and had just bought my '41. A lot of life has happened though I still have it and it still needs a lot of work. Currently, I'm building a new shop for it and my other cars. I love (and have greatly missed) working on cars, probably more than driving them.. and certainly more than showing. There are quite a few people on this forum that are a tremendous help to those in my position who lack all needed answers in putting these cars back together. That is the main reason I joined this club in the first place. I have over the years read many posts and like many noted in other threads from time to time there is a lot of negativity, especially towards potential restoration projects. Not that it will keep me away but, I don't think it's going to help get younger people involved in the hobby or this club for that matter. My father has never understood why I liked these types of cars, always tried to steer me away and though it was disgusting that they were treated like investments creating a barrier to entry for guys like myself when I was a teenager. I get warning people if they are unaware of the potential costs associated with restoring these cars but not every car needs a 100 pt. restoration or is a complete piece of trash if it doesn't get one. Just my two cents.
When I hit "FORUM HOME" there is no link to Modified Chapter and as a publisher that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Consider the history of hot rodding, whose name was changed to street rodding sometime in the 70's. Rod & Custom magazine, the leader in the field by far took their publication off the news-stands, then the first NSRA event was held in 1973 with a few hundred cars.Today they get over 12,000 to the national meet all the while adding to the success of Street Rodder magazine which replaced Rod & Custom. R&C thought hot rodding was dying and later admitted it was the biggest mistake they ever made.
The point here is the officials of the Cadillac Club can surely see there are Modified Cadillacs galore and not to promote the genre is akin to taking Rod & Custom off the shelves. If you don't attract the youth the field is going to go dry. I was surprised to see how few pre WWII cars attended the national Cadillac meet I went to in Louisville a couple of years back.
The street rod movement was responsible for the reproduction of so many parts that the antique car guys were astounded. Fact of the matter is, for a good number of years now a street rodded 'old' Cadillac will bring a lot more money than a fully restored one time and again.
I'm not a part of the rules making scene in the CLC but I'd like to make a motion that the Forum Police surely add a Modified Chapter link to our website so we can attract..attract more eyes.
Quote from: mgrab on July 09, 2020, 04:21:23 PM
I joined the CLC probably about 15 or 16 years ago now when I was in my early 20's and had just bought my '41. A lot of life has happened though I still have it and it still needs a lot of work. Currently, I'm building a new shop for it and my other cars. I love (and have greatly missed) working on cars, probably more than driving them.. and certainly more than showing. There are quite a few people on this forum that are a tremendous help to those in my position who lack all needed answers in putting these cars back together. That is the main reason I joined this club in the first place. I have over the years read many posts and like many noted in other threads from time to time there is a lot of negativity, especially towards potential restoration projects. Not that it will keep me away but, I don't think it's going to help get younger people involved in the hobby or this club for that matter. My father has never understood why I liked these types of cars, always tried to steer me away and though it was disgusting that they were treated like investments creating a barrier to entry for guys like myself when I was a teenager. I get warning people if they are unaware of the potential costs associated with restoring these cars but not every car needs a 100 pt. restoration or is a complete piece of trash if it doesn't get one. Just my two cents.
Thank you Greg for posting this subject! I am in agreement with everyone’s posting here. MGRAB’s posting really hit home with me. I am about fifteen years older than him BUT experienced much of the same as a “closet†Cadillac son of a hot rodder!
My take is that this hobby has gotten very EXPENSIVE, especially in comparison to when I started out with my $200 1959 Cadillac Coupe de Ville in October of 1986. This car was a total restore that I managed to complete in just under a year while in high school and holding down several part-time and full-time summer jobs. I did it then BUT I am not too confident that a youth of today could swing it. The cost of parts and restoration tasks that cannot be done without costly specialized tools or products just make what was once doable a bigger challenge. There is a solution but it involves more direct one to one, person to person charity than what I see in the world today.
We have many years of great experience on this board. Add to it the caring and kind guidance/feedback that members donate to those just starting out or relearning. Where we can improve is not only in sharing our knowledge but sharing our time, parts stashes and, if we are lucky enough, our greenbacks with those that are interested but don't have the money to get involved. Share the secrets with the youngsters too; the secret junk yards, the friend that gives you a smoking deal when you need something hard to find and the internet based sellers that have been beyond helpful in your restoration. Be a benefactor to someone you know personally that needs a helping hand (Choose to give to those who you are certain do not have the same resources as you: not another geezer like myself/yourself that can “afford†the hobby) Most of us can remember when someone was kind enough with their time, belongings and/or pocketbook where it helped inspire our love of this hobby. Regrettably, I don't see this as much today as I did when I was a youngster maturing into a teenager. The key is to “pay it forward†with our hobby. For instance, recently when I had an extra NEW Optima battery sitting unused in my garage, I gave it to a younger buddy that is building a hot rod for his family. Sure, I may have been able to sell it or use it myself at some point in the future but it just felt good getting rid of stuff and seeing it put to use immediately. This buddy works on his flathead Fords with a neighbor gentleman that is over 90 who was servicing Ford's back in the late 1930’s. Another suggestion is to price things to sell when you are lightening your garage stash. Personally, this just feels good when I “bargain basement†sell an item; be it a car, tool or spare part to someone that needs it more than I. In terms of the high cost of parts; Many decades ago, many specialty parts retailers gave me various discounts because I was both young and poor. Maybe this is something that the parts resellers that follow our convos on the board can bring back… Of course this is all just my experience/suggestions and no offense is meant to those that disagree.
Create a Modified section that is easy to find. I promise to provide feedback.
Where is a 'like' button for these posts as I see all likable comments above?
We really need to figure out a way to share more to see some interest from younger peeps concerning these cars or they're going to end up right back out in a field rotting away as they were when we found some of them.
I'm at Cars and Coffee every Saturday morning, most time with the 66 Feetwood and talk with anyone and everyone. The mid 20s to maybe 35 or so are deadset on their rice and imports, but some of the younger ones show a little more interest in these old showboats from decades ago. Given that mine is triple black, one minute I'm a retired pimp, then a cruise ship captain, then mafia and last a funeral director. I have a story and a line of bullchit for everyone. Anything to make them laugh at the car and/or me.
Still though, the demographic numbers are against us, but I do what I can.
I have another suggestion:
When I was trying to look for that modified chapter link, I went through all the regional websites and some were every well developed. What I particularly enjoy browsing through were some websites have a link to view the members cars and some others had pictures of YouTube videos of past car shows and members cars again.
Whether a person is interested in bagging their cars or keeping it original, looking at restored examples are wonderful eye candy and inspiration to the Cadillac enthusiast.
I would recommend an easy to find link that can have sub-category of different year Cadillacs. Members and non-members can post their car pictures of that year on there. We'll probably get increasing visits to those links.
"Nostalgia is the enemy of Optimism."
I agree with the above comments, but wanted to point out that this is not a new problem. When I joined, in my mid-20’s 35 or so years ago, I felt largely ignored by local region, which seemed like an old boys club very set in its ways, with no interest in what some young punk might be up to (that region has since transformed itself, and is now one of the most active and dynamic; i sometimes still wish I lived in the area). And I encountered the same thing at local shows (“shouldn’t you be into Mustangs or Camaros?â€). Now that I’m on the other side of the hill, I go out of my way to be welcoming when a young person shows an interest in my cars. We need them. Even at 61, I still feel like one of the youngsters at many of the events I attend.
I agree with making the modified chapter forum more readily accessible.
I have seen it discussed and Greg has some background running it, but I have never even looked for it because I still have no clue where it is.
I generally don’t modify my cars, but I do like to see what’s out there being done.
Here it is.
https://www.modifiedcadillac.org/ or modifiedcadillac.org
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on July 10, 2020, 12:39:01 AM
Here it is.
https://www.modifiedcadillac.org/ or modifiedcadillac.org
Bruce. >:D
Thanks, Bruce.
I will be able to find it now that it’s in my web search history...lol
Plus, there is a link to the Modified Chapter under Local Clubs which opens up to Regions and Chapters in the Home CLC site.
Hard to put in a site that will be visible when simply typing "Cadillac Clubs", "Hotting up a Cadillac", or "Lowering a Cadillac", or "Custom Cadillac" in the Search Engine. Even putting "Engine change in a Cadillac" in a search engine doesn't direct anyone to the Modified Chapter site.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: David Greenburg on July 09, 2020, 08:16:21 PM
I agree with the above comments, but wanted to point out that this is not a new problem. When I joined, in my mid-20’s 35 or so years ago, I felt largely ignored by local region, which seemed like an old boys club very set in its ways, with no interest in what some young punk might be up to (that region has since transformed itself, and is now one of the most active and dynamic; i sometimes still wish I lived in the area). And I encountered the same thing at local shows (“shouldn’t you be into Mustangs or Camaros?â€). Now that I’m on the other side of the hill, I go out of my way to be welcoming when a young person shows an interest in my cars. We need them. Even at 61, I still feel like one of the youngsters at many of the events I attend.
Dave- that's what drove me out of the local AACA club and joined the much more fulfilling and welcoming KofC (not a car club by the way). I joined CLC for the assistance and the relatable comments but am always wary of posting in the technical area, although I think it has gotten better after the survey that came out noting the negativity in there. My first car was "too new" and generally reviled by the older group in AACA. Everyone has their tastes- even AACA has a modified car class but I don't think they have a chapter devoted to it.
We should welcome any interest in antiques and classic cars. I enjoy the car corrals the best as you park next to a muscle car, a "rice-burner", a drag car, or a Model-T. It gives one a lot to talk about. If we all had the same car, there'd be no need to show it!
This topic and the responses made my morning. I have interest in all cars, I am drawn to the engineering and ingenuity of some of the creations/solutions that others have done. Glad to be a part of an 'open' group.
Interesting - even when I "officially" entered the old car hobby which for me began at the age of 25 with a '64 Series 62 Coupe, I never felt "snubbed" in the slightest by any of the major car clubs. In fact the only snubbing I got was when I found myself in situations where the majority of cars present were modified being the lone wolf with a factory stock car. Therefore this cuts both ways as I see it.
The trouble in my view is that major policy changes can be made with the presumption that all other factors will remain static, ignoring the pitfalls that come from trying to be all things to all people. Appealing to (for lack of a better phrase) the "lowest common denominator" has rarely been a recipe for success any more than "success" of any type is measured on raw numbers alone. A McDonalds sells more meals in a day than most any five star restaurant sells in a year. Is that the metric we should be using?
A good example of this is Carlisle where for years it was once difficult to get a car corral space. Keep in mind Carlisle had been founded in response to Hershey's 25 year age & stock condition requirements where any car could be offered for sale. Over time, Carlisle's inventory increasingly turned a late model used car lot as vintage cars of the 40s - 60s were no longer in attendance as they once had been while Hershey's turnouts remained relatively strong.
Top tier events such as Pebble Beach, Meadowbrook, Bloomington and any number of concours shows have always maintained exacting standards of authenticity and there's certainly no sign of attrition there.
The ever increasing emphasis on original preservation in the classic car hobby cannot be denied either as reflected in market prices. The supply of this material is fixed and can never be increased; it can only decrease. Conversely, the supply of modified examples is theoretically unlimited.
Finally, I think it is also incorrect to presume that interest among "younger" participants in the collector/special interest car hobby lies exclusively in modified cars. While it may be true to an extent, a good part of it is due to appreciation that only comes from the experience, enlightenment and knowledge that comes with age that hadn't yet been attained. This is where we come in. While we all agree nobody should ever be put down or slighted, no matter what their car or preference, there is nothing incongruent about cultivating younger generations about the history and the reasons behind the time honored traditions of original preservation and authenticity while also maintaining a welcoming atmosphere.
You know I am probably jus talking into the wind, but if the Modified chapter was allowed some participation in the Self Starter, such as a page or two each month it might prove enough incentive to bring some of the car's owners I was talking about into the club. Just my thought.
Greg Surfas
Eric well said. Clay/Lexi
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on July 09, 2020, 01:28:23 PM
I am a newcomer to Facebook, and have "joined" ac couple of the Cadillac specialty groups. There are some absolutely spectacular cars and there is an enthusiastic audience. True, most of the cars have been "bagged", and a lot of them have the ubiquitous LS motors in them, but many are restorations of show car quality.
My purpose in mentioning this here is that we (CLS club) seem to be missing a bet by not being more welcoming to these cars. These are the future "old fogies" we have seeming become.
Greg Surfas
You just joined Facebook? Better late than never. I've seen the nicest restomods on the "1965-1970 Cadillac Collective" if you haven't been there yet Greg.
Funny, didn't this NEW/GIRL start this fur ball about 2 years ago? "Its in the CLC's best interest financially and for longevity to set a place at the table for the restomods." Which was promptly met with "I'd rather see the car crushed."
No one loves an original more than me, I prove it with my car.
No one appreciates an insanely well done resto more than me either.
Any Caddy rolling is a Caddy saved.
The majority of young people getting into old Caddy's ARE modding them.
Its faster and cheaper. And far cooler to the young.
Set a place at the table for them, its the ONLY way they'll get exposed to the originals
and form an appreciation for them.
If the modified chapter is part of the CLC, why hide it? We are hiding it because, as evident, even club members don't know how to search for it easily. The easier it is to find it, the more visitors you will get and these visitors will then start to explore the rest of the CLC website and forum. I bet you'll get more membership. Yes, there will be some "bad" members, as with any situation, but there will be some "good" members, and members who can add a lot of knowledge and value to the club.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Since the CLC has a Modified Chapter as well as a Modified Class, it's difficult to see how it can be argued the CLC hasn't gone out of its way to be as inclusive as possible.
Second point, participation in a GN requires a considerable commitment of time and expense which I'm guessing probably wouldn't fit in well with the plans/lifestyle of many 30-somethings; less for those in their 20s although there are some exceptions.
Let's be honest, car collecting tends to be a mature person's pastime for the simple fact that few younger people have achieved the means and control to make it happen. If they're starting a family on a shoestring budget, forget it until their kids have been on their on their own for about 15 years.
Years ago I invited an owner in his 20s with a '61 Sedan who I met at a local car show to join the Central PA Regional CLC show held at the AACA museum at Hershey. To my amazement he showed up and both he and his car couldn't have been more warmly welcomed. After the show, we also invited him to join other participants in a post-show gathering and cookout at the home of one of the region members about 15 minutes from the show was held. He expressed his thanks but politely declined saying he had to get back home. He had also joined the CLC National Club but I see his membership has since lapsed and never saw nor heard from him again.
Maybe the car got wrecked, developed a serious problem, lost storage and had to sell the car or started a new job/family, needed the money, decided to get a Cutlass or heaven-knows-what. What are you supposed to do? Keep lowering standards in hopes of gaining some nebulous demographic whose priorities shift with the wind, who are unlikely to become long term, dyed-in-the-wool members no matter what you do?
Nothing good ever came of identifying a problem where there is none, then applying the wrong fix.
Laurier just got
My new iPhone 2. Seriously a place
At the “family tableâ€
Is a good analogy
Greg Surfas
This is just an example
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on July 10, 2020, 01:42:56 PM
Since the CLC has a Modified Chapter as well as a Modified Class, it's difficult to see how it can be argued the CLC hasn't gone out of its way to be as inclusive as possible.
Second point, participation in a GN requires a considerable commitment of time and expense which I'm guessing probably wouldn't fit in well with the plans/lifestyle of many 30-somethings; less for those in their 20s although there are some exceptions.
Let's be honest, car collecting tends to be a mature person's pastime for the simple fact that few younger people have achieved the means and control to make it happen. If they're starting a family on a shoestring budget, forget it until their kids have been on their on their own for about 15 years.
Years ago I invited an owner in his 20s with a '61 Sedan who I met at a local car show to join the Central PA Regional CLC show held at the AACA museum at Hershey. To my amazement he showed up and both he and his car couldn't have been more warmly welcomed. After the show, we also invited him to join other participants in a post-show gathering and cookout at the home of one of the region members about 15 minutes from the show was held. He expressed his thanks but politely declined saying he had to get back home. He had also joined the CLC National Club but I see his membership has since lapsed and never saw nor heard from him again.
Maybe the car got wrecked, developed a serious problem, lost storage and had to sell the car or started a new job/family, needed the money, decided to get a Cutlass or heaven-knows-what. What are you supposed to do? Keep lowering standards in hopes of gaining some nebulous demographic whose priorities shift with the wind, who are unlikely to become long term, dyed-in-the-wool members no matter what you do?
Nothing good ever came of identifying a problem where there is none, then applying the wrong fix.
Eric, you can't find the "modified chapter of the CLC" with a search warrant, it needs to be HERE on this site. And you won't have to worry about a GN unless you start bringing in fresh, young blood.
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364 on July 10, 2020, 04:18:47 PM
This is just an example
Greg this is what I'm talkin' about! Note the blacked chrome. Sinister!
I brought this issue up to board members about a “Modified Chapter†spot on this forum. Glen Brown stated he would look into it. Maybe one of the administrators of the forum can proceed with making that happen. Also it would be nice to have some “Modified†stories summited for publication in the Self Starter magazine. The club’s membership is dwindling down each year and the younger generations that are interested in Cadillac’s tend to lean on a Modified vehicle. Many of the younger people into Cadillac’s may not have the funds or resources to fully restored a vehicle to its former showroom condition. I’m happy to see all these positive comments on this issue and not shaming those who choose to modify an older Cadillac.
Not all young car enthusiasts are into Modified cars.
Quote from: D.Smith on July 11, 2020, 09:25:28 AM
Not all young car enthusiasts are into Modified cars.
Yup. And not all older people are into stock cars either.
I enjoy both, and have both.
I have been a member of the CLC since the mid-80s and a member of the Modified Chapter since January of 2006. Our head administrator here, Bruce Reynolds, was president of the Modified Chapter for many years and is still an active member. I am happy to see a link to the Modified Chapter now placed at the top of the Discussion Forums locked bar.
CLC Modified Chapter Forum Links
Started by Vince Taliano #13852
And I thank our current Modified Chapter president, Greg Surfas, for getting this ball rolling.
Geoff N.
What do you mean Eric? Isn't this stock?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOMmtoROps0
Greg Surfas
On occasion I like to watch some programming on Motor Trend TV. One of the shows I happen to like is Restoration Garage which is filmed at the Guild in Canada. On occasion they highlight some of the crew's vehicles. I can only remember one stock car and that was a muscle car. These are the folks that keep stock cars on the road… and there is a huge shortage of them. This is one of the main reasons it cost so much to get stuff done nowadays. I see it on all the capital projects my company does, we constantly fight (and hope) we paid enough to get the "A team" and we seldom do (at least it seems that way). Nowadays, if a young person can't do something with a smartphone, chances are it ain't getting done. No one wants to work with their hands anymore. I myself prefer stock but, anything that can be done to get more folks in the car hobby in general is not a bad thing.
Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on July 10, 2020, 12:54:45 PM
Funny, didn't this NEW/GIRL start this fur ball about 2 years ago?
Snip...
Which was promptly met with "I'd rather see the car crushed."
Yes.
Yes.
... I do understand some of the comments; I don't think of myself as old or young. I am 43. I am on Cadillac number 5. My first Cadillac, was my first car at age 16. I currently have tri-7 Fleetwood and an 88 FWD Fleetwood. I have experienced much kindness from Barry Wheeler. The big thing for me is location. I live in Terre Haute, IN. I think I am the only current member in town. Everyone is an hour or more away. I did recently make an acquaintance my age with a ‘59. I told him about the club and suggested he check it out online. I know some young guys like Cadillacs still... I currently have a 16 year old; young man interested in buying my ‘88. I hadn't plan to part with it, but his father is going to help him fix a few things. So I decided to sale it cheap because he’s serious about keeping it going and driving it. I am holding on to it for him; he’s working this summer to pay for it. So it’s on layaway! I was so excited to recently encounter both these guys. Not sure about other regions, but in Indiana I have only experienced welcome and invitations from the local chapter. I would have gone to last GN in Louisville but it was same week as my Cocoa beach time share!
Quote from: 35-709 on July 11, 2020, 10:39:20 AM
I am happy to see a link to the Modified Chapter now placed at the top of the Discussion Forums locked bar.
Well, there are 11 Cadillac LaSalle Club Chapters and we all have our targeted member base. As director of the 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter I am always looking for new members with an interest in those particular model years and of course open to all avenues to direct potential members our way.
Our "Chapter" is open to everything from unrestored originals, to restored to originals to resto mods to full-on customs. Since the Modified Chapter now has a "locked bar" at the top of the General Discussion Forum screen, I have submitted a separate post with links to our 63/64 Cadillac Chapter Forums and believe it only fair that all chartered CLC Chapters be afforded the same opportunity to "be found" as the Modifed Chapter, by having locked links.
I have never had any problem finding the Modified or any other Chapter or Region, however, my search always start on the CLC site (www.CadillacLaSalleClub.org (http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org)). If you go to the main website you will find ALL Regions, Chapters and International Affiliates under "Local Clubs". I do not like the umbrella heading "Local Clubs" since Chapters have members spread out around the globe as do International affiliates.
I do not think if you are looking for a Chapter that focuses on modifeds or say 1963/64 Cadillacs, it would be intuitive to look under "Local Clubs". By definition, Regions fall under "Local Clubs", but not Chapters and International Affiliates. I think the heading label on the main site should perhaps be changed or Chapters & International Affiliates be given their own header link from the main CLC page.
Regardless, if locking links to the top of the Forum discussion page helps people find Chapter Forums, then count me in.
Assuming our 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter and others are given the same opportunity to be seen and found here on the forums I think the simpler solution would be to just set a locked link at the top of the General Discussion page to all Cadillac laSalle Club Regions, Chapters, and Affiliates - https://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/page/regions_chapters (https://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/page/regions_chapters)
There is a huge following on Facebook for Cadillacs.
Many groups and pages. I started two groups, Hess and Eisenhardt Cadillacs and Big Eldorados, a group for 71-78 Eldo’s. I’m also a moderator for an Allante group and the HT-4100 group.
As a club we should adapt to new social media and be more accepting of cars that are not pure stock and original. We do have a Modified class and a Modified Chapter but not all Cadillac owners have an interest in joining the club. I don’t understand the reluctance but that’s the way it is.
Don’t judge the overall interest in Cadillacs if this is as far as you go on the internet aspect of the old car hobby.
Laurie was correct then and is correct now.
We have to be more open to all types of Cadillacs.
Quote from: 76eldo on July 12, 2020, 12:40:22 PM
We do have a Modified class and a Modified Chapter but not all Cadillac owners have an interest in joining the club. I don’t understand the reluctance but that’s the way it is.
Just a guess but its because those who are modifying/own these cars don't know about it OR have been to this page or other CLC specific Facebook pages and have read/seen/felt the wrath shown to those more interested in bags than tower clamps? Just a guess... I've seen/read those posts to the CLC Facebook page only to see others SAVAGE the posters, brutally. I'd tell you to go fly a kite if I was in their position.
Any Cadillac rolling is a Cadillac saved.
There will always be a place, a need, for those who choose to restore to the correct nut and bolt. They preserve history,
and that's crucial. But there are a lot of people who don't like mustard on their hot dog, they too can contribute to income (dues), attendance at major events and importantly shine a bright (LED?) light on the technology that's out there and being used in these restos. And they have no idea we're looking for them.
Image the Self-Starter doing an issue on the modifieds, real modifieds. An SOS to the Facebook pages "The 1965-1970 Cadillac Collective" or "Cadillac Style" etc requesting photos and stories on their modified cars for the mag... That issue would be 4" thick. And I understand the Self-Starter is member oriented, might have to relax that for an issue. More importantly it would show an open door, a seat at the table, here at the CLC for the modifieds. And if they come, many here need to be POLITE if they post. Not everyone likes mustard on their hot dog.
Enough said?
(https://scontent.fagc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38717314_2013448822032777_4573313586604015616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQlnd0L0UwUDC6iE5HjnKqeE87GXttcRvNLtrTFfN2LM67GgcbxVQ-FSE3rqg0ky8jw&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-1.fna&oh=6c56949eee9768a69e2cd1d64e5880bf&oe=5F325DC5)
I never felt "snubbed" in the slightest by any of the major car clubs. In fact the only snubbing I got was when I found myself in situations where the majority of cars present were modified being the lone wolf with a factory stock car. Therefore this cuts both ways as I see it...
...appreciation that only comes from the experience, enlightenment and knowledge that comes with age that hadn't yet been attained... there is nothing incongruent about cultivating younger generations about the history and the reasons behind the time honored traditions of original preservation and authenticity while also maintaining a welcoming atmosphere.
Above quotes from Eric DeVirgilis
LMAO over that last posted picture ;D Good one. Eric nailed it by commenting in his earlier post that the great divide that lies between younger and older car people is (often) a matter of cultural maturity. Having witnessed it over some 55 years of collecting, (45 years of classic Cadillac ownership), a thesis could be written on it. When I look back at the late 60s & 1970s when all of my like aged friends were into cars I was the only one who drove a Cadillac (i.e. land yacht). All of them were into muscle cars. They were polite but were of the opinion that the cars I liked were "old men's cars". What little interest they had in my Cadillac was how it ran, and little if any appreciation of the historical aspects. Is one group better than the other? Nope, but there are vast differences.
With respect to cars I have noticed there are bascially 2 camps 1) The preservationists 2) the performance group. Yes, I know there is much cross-over here, as there are many who are as intrigued by the nuts & bolts as they are about the history of the automobile, but space is limited.
It seems reasonable to me that like minded people will find ways to connect with each other, though some barriers are a given. Like I don't want to see a Self Starter completely filled with Cadillac resto-mods or that last shot posted by Eric as "gracing" the front cover! That is not what I signed up for. Likewise, those heavily embedded in the custom world have their focus as well. There is nothing wrong with that. We are all products of our environment.
If one is to look at this purely from a numbers game (to increase membership), that involves a different set of values, though the quote "You can't be all things to all people" comes to mind. Seems to me that a common meeting place for both groups is here at the CLC, and I have no objection to the modified group building on that aspect. There should not however, be an abdication of CLC core values which clearly state why the Club was formed in the first place. Clay/Lexi
Our Purpose
We were initially founded to encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles built from 1902-1942. Now the CLC recognizes all vehicles built by Cadillac. We promote the development, collection, publication and exchange of helpful information pertaining to our cars. We also promote social fellowship for club members.
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on July 12, 2020, 03:03:28 PM
Enough said?
(https://scontent.fagc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38717314_2013448822032777_4573313586604015616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQlnd0L0UwUDC6iE5HjnKqeE87GXttcRvNLtrTFfN2LM67GgcbxVQ-FSE3rqg0ky8jw&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-1.fna&oh=6c56949eee9768a69e2cd1d64e5880bf&oe=5F325DC5)
There's always an exception.
;)
Being an Army man I prefer the Deuce DeVille:
https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=12649
Now for a more serious item.
First, my car is "Modified" :o because I have a stand up hood ornament from a couple years later and stainless steel braided AC lines, etc. It has all the ORIGINAL cast iron engine parts, Original transmission, drive train to include rear axles, Original radiator tanks, etc. and I get into arguments from the purists here. Oh, and I've had it for over 23 years
Now along comes someone, his first post:
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=160739.msg468427#msg468427
He's asking about a "legit lowering kit". As if such a thing exists. He included a picture. Oh yeah, it's modified all fight. Its a 1967 DeVille Convertible, but the chrome is blacked out or gone, no door handles, heavily customized paint and (silly to me, but it's his car) oversize what look to be 22" wheels with barely there sidewall height tires.
His post was completely ignored except for two from, me telling him that:
"There are dozens of forum readers, who have given themselves a neck sprain while trying to "look down" on your car as far as possible because it's been "modified". And the paint work is causing them further turmoil. To these folks, there is no "legit" lowered spring for any Cadillac and your post does not warrant any attention. That's why there have been no replies."
The response from forum members, or rather the complete lack of it here takes me straight back to July 1945 and mokusatsu. We all know how well that went for the people directly involved.
So here's a new kid (assumption since I'm not longer the youngest member of the CLC) and nobody wants to even attempt to point him in the right direction. I only know that he has to get with a local shop because he has conflicting requirements, and I wrote as such, but no one else could be bothered.
Not what I would consider to be "welcoming"
Are you sure that vehicle is not more of a modified GMC Jimmy? as there isn't much Cadillac there.
Bruce. >:D
Not a jimmy. That's a 1964 Sedan deVille on an M35 series 2.5 ton truck chassis. you can look at the link. Interesting how the Sedan deVille is almost as long as the deuce and a half.
And I'll bet the seats are more comfortable than any deuce I've ever ridden in.
These army trucks are all the same to me. GMC CCKW was the original one, which was called the Jimmy.
Bruce. >:D
PS. But, seeing as the Modified Chapter is about modifying actual Cadillacs, be it body or Engine in another chassis, these "Extremes" would not pass as a Modified Cadillac.
PPS. The Truck conversions you show would be akin to removing a Radiator retaining bolt and putting it into an Acura, and then saying the Acura was now a modified Cadillac.
.
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on July 12, 2020, 09:56:53 PM
"His post was completely ignored except for two from, me telling him that: There are dozens of forum readers, who have given themselves a neck sprain while trying to "look down" on your car as far as possible because it's been "modified". And the paint work is causing them further turmoil. To these folks, there is no "legit" lowered spring for any Cadillac and your post does not warrant any attention. That's why there have been no replies."
Not what I would consider to be "welcoming"
But you responded Mike, and it sounds like you have the expertise on this. But you made a number of not so flattering assumptions as to why he was "ignored". That in itself is not what I would call "welcoming". Even if your presumptions are correct, why turn someone off? That said, I have seen numerous posts made by those who own stock cars and no one responded to some of those as well. There can be all sorts of reasons why individuals do not respond. With respect to the chopped caddy owner asking for lowering tips, it is not as if there are no other sites he could turn to. Fortunately you gave him some useful information, but I have seen on occasion those looking for assistance on professional bodied Cadillacs and I think rightly so, at times some were advised to check with the Professional Car Society. You go to where the "experts" and passion is. He probably thought the CLC was a good place to start. I have seen posts on other sites where the emphasis was on high performance. Those looking for rare parts for example are often directed here. Makes sense. But to denigrate club membership for not responding helps no one. Clay/Lexi
Bruce,
The accura with a Cadillac radiator retaining bolt is not a proper analogy for this.
I'm not suggesting that the Deuce qualifies as a "modified Cadillac"
It was only in response to the 1972 post with a monster truck chassis posted earlier, and my preference for the Deuce deVille.
That's why I posted my "serious" comments on a different post.
Clay, I'll get back to your post later.
I was trying to help him out the best I could while at the same time explaining my thoughts on why he received NO OTHER RESPONSES, NOT EVEN A RECOMMENDATION TO POST IN THE (THEN NOT EASY TO FIND) MODIFIED FORUMS
I get it Mike, but those comments were presumptuous and in the end help no one. Cripes I did not respond, (don't even remember seeing that post), but perhaps I should feel offended as I seem to have been lumped in with everyone else for "completely" ignoring him. Just for the record I did not "ignore" him or look down on his car...etc.
If those attitudes are indeed prevalent in the modified world, perhaps that may account for some of the modified car reticence within the CLC? I say, inquiries like this should be answered as best as possible, (as you did), and then explain what the CLC is about without s__canning everyone. What happened to the promoting of social fellowship thing? I would like to think after cruising the site he would see where the emphasis is. That does not mean he cannot be included. There should be room for all, hence the modified chapter is a good idea. Unlike most collectibles, the automobile is a multi-faceted object that requires much expertise to properly collect and maintain. That inquiry was posted by a fellow who is still a Cadillac owner. I suspect both sides will never totally see eye to eye, as there are different mindsets & motivations evident. I just don't get the whole denigration thing as it is counter productive. Clay/Lexi
Clay, they might have been presumptuous, but they are still Accurate.
I was not and am not implying you are in the group with their blood boiling over even seeing the post being referred to, but there are forum member purists who's is and they know who they are. Others, were probably just too stumped to know how to help, but still Nobody even referred the OP to the modified forums. Until someone added a sticky up top, I would even have a fun time finding the modified forums.
The lack of response to the OP still reeks of mokusatsu. He's probably not even around any longer. Too bad, that was a 1967 convertible, in the 4 best years of Cadillac (in my opinion).
LMAO! Hey Eric, that abortion you posted is doing something a *LOT* of members CORRECT cars aren't doing -
ITS ROLLING! LOL!