What is the difference between a 1972 Fleetwood 75 sedan and limosine? I was looking at a price guide and noticed that these two were listed under "Fleetwood 75". I know of one for sale and dont know which it would be. Thanks.
A Fleetwood 75 Sedan does not have a glass division window behind the drivers seat. A Fleetwood 75 Limousine does have a division window. Unfortunately, the limousines have VERY cramped leg room in front, the division window takes away a lot of space from the driver.
The division window cars came with black leather on the front seat and black dash and door panels up front, the rear was offered in cloth only, usually gray, blue or black. The sedans had the same color interior all the way through.
Typically the limousines had seperate heating, air conditioning and radio controls for the rear, while the sedan usually did not. But I have seen some sedans with the rear contols.
Also, the limousines had a 3rd key that unlocked one of the rear doors. That way, the owner of the car could raise the division window, lock the rear doors and only he could get at any valuables left in back, yet the driver could still get to the front seat and trunk.
For the most part, sedans were used as funeral limousines while division window cars were intended for private and corporate use.
Cadillac also offered the option of a closed quarter top, they eliminated the small third window in the rear sail panel, often replacing it with a landau iron. They also made the rear window small, giving it a closed in, private look. This option is fairly rare, but beware of rust under that heavily padded roof.
They are very interesting cars, low production numbers, and certainly impressive. Specific trim pieces can be very hard to locate because of the low numbers.
Executive Sedan is usually series 75-23, Limosine is Series 75-33, Depending on year such as 1980 Sedan would be 6DF23 and Limosine would be 6DF33. 1972 sedan is 69723 and limosine is 69733.
I stopped in the auction yard and looked at the car again today and it doesnt have a divider window and has a fabric front and rear seat. Black exterior/interior. It is locked but it doesnt look like there is any wear in the interior. The exterior is decent. I noticed some cracked paint but still a decent shine. Some pitting on the die-cast exterior door handles. The only rust that I saw was some bubbling (and touched-up rust) around the rear window. Mileage unknown but I would bet it is pretty low judging by the interior.
Gday Larry,
The bigest problem with any car with a vinyl roof, and especially, the padded vinyl roof is rust.
If you can see rust appearing, then I can nearly guarantee you that there is going to be serious rust at the base of the roof that is just waiting for the chance to rear its ugly head.
You see, the foam padding is a real moisture sponge, and will have been soaking up water for years. Most metal under the vinyl wasnt rustproofed, and once the ruist starts, the only way to fix it is to remove the vinyl covering, cut-out and replace the affected steel, then replace a new vinyl top cover, after the area has been rustproofed.
I had a 72 Eldorado Coupe and it didnt look too bad around the rear of the rear window, except for a few rust bubbles, but when one fressed on the panel between the end of the vinyl, and the trunk lid, it was loose, all the way across. Very bad.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
The car has no vinyl top and doesnt appear to have had one judging from the paint. But youre correct about the rust problems that can be encountered. There is always more than I think there is once I start taking them apart.
Funny, I thought all those 75 series vehicles had the vinyl top to cover the imperfections when the bodies were lengthened during construction in the factory.
I had a Holden Statesman deVille, and where the factory put a plug of sponge rubber in the "C" panel, to stop noise transfer from the trunk, it turned out to be a rustation area on all the cars.
But, once a car is sold, and the first owner has on-sold it, nobody seems to care.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Quote from: Bruce Reynolds # 18992Funny, I thought all those 75 series vehicles had the vinyl top to cover the imperfections when the bodies were lengthened during construction in the factory.
I had a Holden Statesman deVille, and where the factory put a plug of sponge rubber in the "C" panel, to stop noise transfer from the trunk, it turned out to be a rustation area on all the cars.
But, once a car is sold, and the first owner has on-sold it, nobody seems to care.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Im not 100percent sure, but depending on the year, I dont think the bodies were "lengthened". Actually the term used is "stretched". I believe up until the about the mid 80s Cadillac produced series 75 bodies. Around the time they downsized the line in 1985, they still produced limosine bodies, but they werent what the public wanted in a limosine, so I think it was about this time, that some of the larger coach builders, started taking Fleetwoods and "stretched" them. I also think in a very short time, these aftermarket stretch limosines were offered by Cadillac.
The vinyl tops on the 75s were an option in the mid-70s and an expensive one at that; around $1200. You could also get it with blinded out rear quarter windows for about $1000 more and with artificial landau irons for another $250. All of this was factory installed as were the bodies from scratch; not stretched from smaller cars. Ill keep my triple black 1976 Series 75 sedan. It makes me feel like a king! I even designed my future garage to accomodate it ten years before I owned it.
Quote from: Bob DziewitThe vinyl tops on the 75s were an option in the mid-70s and an expensive one at that; around $1200. You could also get it with blinded out rear quarter windows for about $1000 more and with artificial landau irons for another $250. All of this was factory installed as were the bodies from scratch; not stretched from smaller cars. Ill keep my triple black 1976 Series 75 sedan. It makes me feel like a king! I even designed my future garage to accomodate it ten years before I owned it.
I have always considered the 74-76 Cadillacs the last of the "big ones" and what a Cadillac stood for as far as size. Not only were they big, but I think they were quite magnificent in looks and style. I dont think they ever came any bigger and longer then a Series 75, and a 1976 should have special recognition as being the ultimate, "last of the big ones"
My 1972 Series 75 Sedan never had a vinyl top and it has front and rear AC/Heat.
The Fleetwood 75 bodies were largely hand built in a separate facility, and then the bodies trucked to the main assembly line to be mated with their chassis.
With production numbers hovering around the 1500 mark, they could not have been a very profitable venture for Cadillac, but did wonders for their image as most all heads of state, company VIPs and clebrities were chauffeured around in them.
Its really too bad that Cadillac stopped production of these cars after the aborted run of the unpopular FWD 75s in the mid 80s. I have worked on a few of the "stretch" limos and their craftmanship on some leaves a lot to be desired. Under the panels, there is some really rough fabrication techniques, and the wiring is a nightmare, being all one colour - red.
Mike
I looked at the car for a 3rd time and can see no indication that it ever had a vinyl top. My beliefs are that the paint is original. The rust around the rear window is a concern, though. Im sure it would be impossible to repair this without much fabrication. Are any body parts available for this car except for the parts thats interchangable?
I had a few rust throughs under my vinyl top at the bottom/rear and the lower window channel on my 66 CDV, I welded in some new steel patches, no big deal.
I just picked up a 67 CDV sans vinyl top, the leaking rear window damage is all on the inside, under the seat, sail panels, etc. Even the seat upholstery is shot.
Those were really regal automobiles. During college, I worked part time for the local funeral home, usually driving the family car or coach. They had a black 1975 75 sedan with navy blue cloth and leather upholstery front and rear for the family car and it went down the road as if it were hovering above the pavement and virtually without road noise. That big 500 cu.in. low compression engine had its work cut out for it, though, propelling 5800 pounds of Cadillac plus seven passengers; merging had to be done very carefully and with plenty of room.
Larry,
Any rust repairs around the rear window will require a series of "patch Panels" which you will have to fashion out of steel stock, then weld the pieces in place.
The rear window will have to be removed to accomplish this.
I am afraid that the manufacturers of the modern vehicles, built in a lot of "Water traps" when constructing things like "flush fitting" glass, etc. Most cars of the mid Sixties, onward, especially in the GM range, suffered from this phenomonum. The "Stick in" windows were the worst culprit. Drains were just thought not necessary.
I have to weld up some large holes in the rear window frame on my 67 Chev Impala, wqhere the water just used to lay there, and had to evaporate out when it got wet.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Doesnt appear to be leaking inside, but it looks rough on the outside. Someone has touched it up by painting with a brush at some point. Only rust that I can see(?) on the whole car.
Or known by the manufacturer that it will be prone to rust from moisture.
But as Bruce has reiterated numerous times, once the initial buyer has offloaded the car it is the used car buyers problem.
Which leads me to another issue, designing cars that are not prone to structurally rust out, today we have better rust preventive coatings so that will help, regardless of the design.
The older cars lasted due to the thickness of the steel, the new cars dont have that luxury.
Porter
Best thing to do is remove the rear glass, get down to bare steel, (wire brush, etc.) epoxy prime and repaint to match, reglaze and install the trim.
Check out my vinyl top replacement photos at
http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/Thank Stampie for the website, he set it up.
Porter
A decade-or-so ago I had a 72 Fleetwood 75 formal limo with blind rear quarters and the tiny back window, but no landau bows. The paperwork with the car indicated that the special roof treatment came to somewhere around $2,500, which would have bought an entire small car back then. I later owned a 76 9-pass. sedan, and can say that I much prefer the sedans to the limos, as the leather front seat with only a little fore-and-aft movement is nowhere nearly as comfortable as the cloth sedan seat with 6-way adjustment. And its not as tall, either. To me, the most distinctive trait of these rigs is their half hardtop/half sedan motif, with frames around the windows in the back doors, but none on the front door glasses. Long ago and far away........
I can remember being disappointed when I first saw the down-sizes 1977 Cadillacs, but I was irritated when I saw our "heads of state" retaining those old 1976 models well into the gas shortages of the 80s rather than riding in the new down sized cars. My 76 was supposedly retained by GM for their corporate use in the same manner. I guess that was fortunate for me as the car still has only 30,000 miles and is nearly perfect. And remember Elvis funeral? The longest procession of new, and unusual for the time, white series 75 Cadillacs imaginable. I wonder where they got them all, and if some of them were painted white for his funeral.
Cadillac 75 sedan or limo have a one piece roof outer. The vinyl top was optional on both models. The blank rear quarter windows where an option along with a reduced rear window. The reduced rear window was done with a hand carved maghony wood insert with an aluminum blade to hold the glass in place. This makes the use of the vinyl top required with this option. Cadillac limo and 75 sedans from the early 50s thru 1976 where built @ Fisher Body plant 21 in Detroit the bodies where not stretched sedans but true factory built limo and 75 sedans.
Quote"Cadillac also offered the option of a closed quarter top, they eliminated the small third window in the rear sail panel, often replacing it with a landau iron. They also made the rear window small, giving it a closed in, private look. This option is fairly rare, but beware of rust under that heavily padded roof."
Was the padded top (which covered rear side small 3rd window) and landau bars available in earlier years...late 60's model 75s? Thanks!
The first factory offered formal roof option with or without landau bows was in 1966. Prior to that you would have to have one custom made by a company like Durham Coach.
Thanks Dave, just bought a 69 Fleetwood! Will start a new thread!
Cadillac had a landau roof option (factory-built) beginning with the 1964 model year.
Tony Gaudenti
12310
Thanks for sharing that photo Tony. I've only seen one of those in a book and was pretty sure it was listed as a Durham. I don't mind being wrong. It just expands my Caddy knowledge. :)
I wouldn't mind owning several of those limos with the landau roof option. Since they are so rare.
Maybe a '64, a '66, a '68, a '69, and a '71-'76. :)
While admiring these regal cars, I'll post some seller's photos of the nicest one of these cars I've seen, from an e-bay listing a few years ago. Some of you may appreciate seeing them. The car was a 1972 Fleetwood Limousine with the Formal Top option with Landau Bars, and it was built in Brewster Green with Black Top and Beige Cloth Passenger compartment, and at the time, it purportedly had under 36,600 miles, and it was for sale in Florida. Here are the photos (I incorrectly saved them as Balmoral Green when it appears to be Brewster Green):
Excellent Rich! Nice! Thanks for sharing. :)
Here are a few more from the e-bay listing that really accentuate the elegance of the details of this model:
That green 72 Landau was bought new by a neighbor of mine in Connecticut. He was an eccentric recluse living in a big spooky mansion. He rarely ever took that limo out of the garage. I only saw it a few times as a boy growing up. I did see it a few times later when he left the garage door open to get a smaller toyota out to drive. The Limo had 20K on it when he passed away.
What is even more bizzare than the colors and landau top is that he ordered it without a radio up front!
Here are pics of it coming out of it's hibernation. The last pic is of the house the limo came from. Taken after the car was sold. The 74 Calais was mine at the time.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5140%2F5509916319_14fb0eb89d_b.jpg&hash=f26858056bcc4572948f9c450a93005f7bf2c81e)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5133%2F5509916611_2d73426ddc_b.jpg&hash=f528862f193da56f9bc2c7ed5590670ce018d754)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5094%2F5509915827_95d3890a34_b.jpg&hash=1bd10f3f702c202103a7c5d877659d7bbae4987c)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5178%2F5509916101_b1396b30ca_b.jpg&hash=365cbac4e8e9b6928f5975dbafe1b8947a124d4d)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5218%2F5509916467_9c5445fc2c_b.jpg&hash=6684de4fee5f16debadadeeb851d85755c145a28)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5096%2F5510633022_658cbee6ac_b.jpg&hash=0bf607739b1012641f9bf0bba00e3e57569a11d2)
Dave, thanks for sharing your knowledge of that beautiful Brewster Green '72 Limo! It must have been especially built in that rare configuration. I'm fascinated by the "stories" revealed within the book of an old Cadillac's life! If only the cars could talk . . . if I recall, the Limo was offered on e-bay by a seller in Miami, Florida.
Rich, Correct. The Limo was sold to a collector in Atlanta and is now in Florida. Hopefully it will stay intact as is. At one point it was on ebay with a suggestion to "hack a radio in it and use it for hire." I almost fainted when I read that.
The real irony is I missed out on buying it from the original estate. I was out of town when a friend and fellow collector rec'd a call to come see it. When I got home there was a message on my answering machine saying "We are going out to your old home town to see a strange coloured limousine for sale". I knew exactly what car they were talking about. By the time I called to get the contacts phone number it was sold to the buyer in Atlanta. Fortunately my friends took alot of photos of it.
Then the two times it was up forsale later on the internet I just couldn't come up with the asking price. I guess fate is just trying to keep me from owning that Limo. Which is painful since I have know that car from boyhood. I can vividly remember pedalling my bicycle over to the local gas station and seeing it parked there. That was in 1976 and even as a ten year old kid i knew that was a special Cadillac.
I am really enjoying all these photos of limousines!
On the same subject, and since I added landau bars to my '76 limousine, here are a few photos of it...
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.tinypic.com%2Fax07qg.jpg&hash=db60bd04d1380594d6f4763a2ad887d043ec34c6)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F2wgeyix.jpg&hash=9403de7ccadddeb1ce527e5f5cb1896dc8151936)
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2F119miqt.jpg&hash=0b2b90dc559bfcd0604a55b838cbe40d4ff3c076)
Lookin good Tony. In that last photo you can really get an idea of how big those cars really are. Nice shot.
Thanks, David.
The last photo was taken from the 1st story roof of my house.