1961 Fleetwood - ride seems harsh in the rear

[Dan LeBlanc]

So, I took the Fleetwood out for a little drive Saturday night.  I found the ride in the rear to be a little harsh for a Cadillac. 

The car has just a hair over 19,000 miles.  Still sitting on the original shocks and springs.  The suspension doesn't seem to be bottoming out going over frost heaves with four teenage girls in the back but it sure seems to go over them some hard.

I'm running bias ply tires at 24 psi.

Ride height seems fine (a little higher than some other 61s I've seen).

Tried the bounce test on the back of the car and there's no bounce.

Is it just that there is much suspension travel in these cars that I'm not used to it, or should I be leaning towards a shock or spring replacement.  I've got a NOS set of Pleasurizers in the box for the rear.  I've been holding off on changing them for two reasons.  First,  they're NOS so I'm wondering if they're still good.  Second, wondering if springs are the problem instead.

The girls riding in the back said "it feels like the car is on hydraulics back here."

Thoughts?

[Walter Youshock]

I say the shocks are shot.  My '57 was on the originals, too  After it's first 200-mile drive, they were done for.  All the fluid had either leaked out years before or turned to tar.  The "bounce test" results were the same as you describe but the shocks were done.

The softness of the bias tires can compensate a bit for the worn shocks, I think.  I run my tires at 26 psi--between the low and high suggested pressures.

Only other "option"--and I'm sure you would think hard before doing it--is pop a set of those spring tensioner chocks in the rear springs to see if it changes the ride.

[Dan LeBlanc]

That does make sense.  Whatever seals hold the oil in are likely very dry which leads me to believe the NOS pleasurizers likely should just go on the shelf as a conversation piece.

For the price of a pair of rear shocks, I can't see myself trying the spring tensioner chocks, however.  Shocks are cheap enough - even for a good set.

I realize that even though there are only 19000mi on the components, the age has likely taken its toll.

[Walter Youshock]

My car had 24,510 on the odom when I got it.  It did sit for over 20 years which didn't help matters.  It still had the spiral shocks.  The shop had to cut the fronts off because the nuts were so rusted.  I put gas shocks on it in '93 and painted them black so they look original.  They've held up so far.  You don't want one of these land yachts bouncing down the road--especially with drum brakes and bias tires.

The '61 has the ball joint on the suspension yoke, correct?  Could it be worn?

I think there is a company that rebuilds the original shocks.  Your car definitely deserves the finest parts available, if you wanted to go that route.

[Dan LeBlanc]

It doesn't exhibit any characteristics of that spherical joint being worn.

When it was up on the hoist in Harrisburg getting the bias ply tires put on, I did notice a bit of dampness on the rear shocks. At the time I attributed it to the fact that it had been on the trailer for two days in the rain driving to fall Hershey and was likely water. I haven't been under the car since but I guess it would be time to get under there.

I didn't realize the original shocks could be rebuilt.

[Dan LeBlanc]

I just found front and rear shocks by Gabriel that are already painted black.  I'm wondering about quality.

I'd like to go the Monroe route, but they don't have fronts and I'm not one to mix and match stuff (Gabriel's in the front and Monroes in the rear).

Kanter I see also has shocks, but I am uncertain on their quality and $200 seems quite spendy for something I'm not sure on who made.

[Scot Minesinger]

Shocks are likely gone due to age.  The NOS shocks are likely NG either as suggested in previous post.  Either re-built or high quality new is the first step towards restoring quality ride.  It amazes me how many old cars have original shocks, I guess due to original owners not being aware of that maintenance item.  I had original shocks on my 1970 SDV that were not terrible, but replaced anyway.

[Jon S]

You can't go wrong with the Gabriels.  Kanter's quality differs item by item.  I agree with you not to mix/match but keep one brand all around.

[Dan LeBlanc]

For $21 each, the Gabriels, if they're good seem like a great deal.  Plus, they're black, so they'll look original.

I realize that the car still has a lot of the original parts, but when it comes to safety, I have to throw original out the window (as much as I'd love to preserve the original components).  I can't have a 5000lb car bouncing and bopping all over the road.  If I do, there likely wouldn't be a car left to preserve.

The front brake shoes were original, they're in a box in the trunk.  The spark plugs wires were original.  They're also in a box.  So, anything I take off the car is going to go into storage as reference material for future generations.

It will be a sad day when they come off, but I know I'm doing the right thing.

[Walter Youshock]

If you enjoy looking at it more than driving it, leave them on.  YOU want to drive and enjoy this car.  Safety first.  When the time comes for it to go to the museum, all the original parts will be there.

Ounce of prevention...

[Dan LeBlanc]

I'm down to two shock choices 

One is the Gabriel Classic supposedly engineered to OE spec for $89 for all four corners.

The other is the heavy duty shock from Rare Parts for $380. Is there any benefit to having a heavy duty shock?  It seems heavy duty is the way to go especially with the massive trunk area hanging way out over the rear axle to really control the movement of the rear of the car, but, in doing so, will there be a sacrifice to ride quality?

[Scot Minesinger]

What is the brand and model from "Rare parts"?  Being from DC, I'm always suspicious.  They do not make them, and so they buy and resell them.  Sometimes they are parts you could buy at NAPA.  I do buy from USA Parts that are sold at NAPA because maybe they are 20% more, but I don't need to travel to NAPA twice to get the right part.  $89 and $380 is a huge difference and worthy of further investigation.  The words "heavy duty" is to me a sales term like "ultra quiet", "Premium" and the like - kind of meaningless without facts such as weight rating and etc..

For shocks it is best to go with shocks engineered for the weight it will dampen, too heavy of a shock will produce a harsher ride, and too of a lite of a shock will produce too soft...

[Dan LeBlanc]

I'm not sure who makes the Rare Parts stuff. I've seen several vendors with this brand (including my local O'Reilly store). I'd tend to agree that it's likely something re marketed. The off the shelf Gabriel shocks are starting to look pretty good.

[Glen]

I was under the impression that heavy duty shocks were stiffer and gave a harsher ride. 

[David Greenburg]

I think Rare Parts makes at least some of their own stuff.  They contacted me after I wrote my article in the SS back in 2005 about the '59-'60 pitman arm recall, and said they were looking at making a replacement arm, which I believe they have done, and to my knowledge, are the only ones doing it. 

[txturbo]

I doubt it's the shocks if you have no bounce. If the shocks were shot it would bounce to much. My guess is the shackles have seized up. They are suppose to move as the suspension moves up. If they don't then it will feel like no suspension at all. You can test it by disconnecting one end of both shocks and see if it bounces or not. I suppose it's possible that a shock could seize but I've never seen it happen. You could also try jacking the back end of the car up by the frame and see if the suspension stays down while the body goes up.

[Dan LeBlanc]

The rear suspension and shocks definitely aren't seized. When I had it up on the hoist in Harrisburg, having tires put on for fall Hershey, there was dampness on the shocks. I thought it was from the monsoon I trailered it through to get there. I looked under last night and the shocks appear to be leaking. That was oil I saw not water in Harrisburg.

At the time, I had only out about 10 miles on the car. Now after 231 miles of ownership, they're wetter.

[Jon S]

I would go with the Gabriels and they have a warranty.  I'm sure the rest of the suspension is just fine.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

1961 Cadillacs are coil sprung; there are no shackles to become stiff. 

As far as I am aware, the only time [coil] springs have been source of harsh ride, it was due to the springs having been replaced with firmer ones - which most replacements tend to be. Springs would not be the culprit in this car, assuming they are still original. 

If your driving is limited and for short distances, it may be worth looking into having the original shocks rebuilt as Wally suggests.   

[Jon S]

If memory serves correctly, the factory shocks had 1 3/16" pistons whereas replacements have a 1 3/8" piston - slightly larger.  Eric is correct - there are no shackles - 1957 was the last year to use leaf springs on the non-limo cars.