national judging

[george smith]

I am taking my 61 Eldorado to the national meet to be judged, can anyone tell me just what they look at, what are the points is it 400 or 100, do they touch the car, do they want you to make everything work, radio, heater etc. etc. also since i live 7 or 8 miles from the hotel i have no plans to go on any trip or attend the banquet, i just want to bring the car there on show day, then come back in the evening when the awards come out, does anyone know if this will be a problem

Living in the area if anyone has any questions about the area please feel free to email me, i will reply to you
61cadillac@comcast.net

Thank You
George Smith #20591

[Johnny]

Let me first say, that I really don't get that involved with judging.  I am sure members with more expertise in the judging will respond to your post.  With that said allow me to make a couple of comments.

I don't know what point system is used, and any touching of the car is minimal by the judging.  When touching is required to check something, the usual routine is they ask the owner to do the touching.  Keep in mind that the judging is being done by a group of your peers, and as such, they always demonstrate a proper respect for a members car.

I believe most times judging involves showing the judges certain options are in working condition.

You don't have to have your car judged if you don't want to.  Many members bring their cars to just display them.


If all you want to do is bring your car on show day, then attend the awards banquet that night, that's fine.  All you have to do is pay the registration fee ($50), car show fee ($10), and the awards banquet fee ($60 pp).


Hopefully this has helped you a little.  For more detailed info go to these links:

http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/2008events.shtml

http://www.vfrclc.org/GN08.htm

[Richard Sills - CLC #936]

George,

Please take a look at your 2008 CLC Directory, pages 54-59, for a description of the judging process.  A sample judging form is reproduced on page 59.  

The judges will check to make sure that lights and accessories work as they should.  (This differs from other shows that are strictly "beauty contests", where none of the operational aspects are considered in judging.)  See, for example, items 2 through 12 on the left-hand side of the judging sheet -- these are all operational tests that the judges will ask you to perform.

You are not required to pay for the banquet if you simply want to enter the room during the awards ceremony, but you do need to register for the meet even if the only thing you are going to do is to show your car.  There are two separate registration forms -- one for you as a member, and one for your car -- they need to be sent to different locations.

I hope this info helps.

Richard

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I'm with you Lou,

It is up to the Owner to be present to open up things or operate items for the Judges if they don't want these careful judges to check for themselves.

If items of safety don't operate, like lights, wipers, indicators, horns and the like, then the vehicles shouldn't even be driving on the roads.

Bruce.

PS.   But, I can understand the problems with testing the Wipers and Windscreen Washers when it is dry.

[David #19063]

Also, I do not know if it is a CLC requirement...but I have been at some car shows where you must have a fire extinguisher somewhere in your car for judging or you are immediately disqualified.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

This is 100% correct. Have a correct fire extinquisher visible that is clearly YOURS, or you don't get judged at any CLC GN. Not too many stringent rules, but this is one of them.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I didn't see any Fire Extinguishers at the cars in 2002 at the Dearborn GN.

But I have seen pictures of car shows with then in front of the front wheels, and they look like they are doubling as Wheel Chocks.

Luckily, this habit hasn't arrived here in Australia.  And hope it never does.

Bruce.

[Johnny]

I didn't see any Fire Extinguishers at the cars in 2002 at the Dearborn GN.

But I have seen pictures of car shows with then in front of the front wheels, and they look like they are doubling as Wheel Chocks.

Luckily, this habit hasn't arrived here in Australia.  And hope it never does.

Bruce.

I find it somewhat unusual that no Fire Extinguishers were visible at the 2002 GN in Dearborn, as fire extinguishers are usually the first thing judges look for.

*I am all for safety , but really never quite understood the fire extinguisher requirement.  There is no doubt that with the presence of heat, gasoline and electricity in an automobile, there is always a chance of a fire, but how often does it happen?  Logically speaking, wouldn't it make more sense to make a "First Aid Kit" a requirement, as I would think it would be used more then a fire extinguisher.

[Paul Ayres #5640]

Bruce and others -- You may not have seen a lot of fire extinguishers on the ground at Dearborn in 2002, because we used a drive-through station judging process over two days, but believe me, fire extinguishers were checked at the first judging station, and a couple cars were turned away for lack of extinguishers.  For those who object to this, I hope you never see a car fire at a show.  They do occur, and that is the reason for the requirement.  Paul Ayres

[Johnny]

Bruce and others -- You may not have seen a lot of fire extinguishers on the ground at Dearborn in 2002, because we used a drive-through station judging process over two days, but believe me, fire extinguishers were checked at the first judging station, and a couple cars were turned away for lack of extinguishers.  For those who object to this, I hope you never see a car fire at a show.  They do occur, and that is the reason for the requirement.  Paul Ayres

Following my chain of thought, then shouldn't a first aid station be required at all shows?  I am sure that minor injuries are more prevalent then car fires at shows.

*I am not trying to be argumentative, nor change the rules, just trying to have a dialogue about the what requirements should be in place at car shows.

[Johnny]

For the record I always have a first aid kit in my cars, but fortunately I never had to use it...  The fire extinguisher has been used twice. Once for one of these PS fires and another time on a trunk fire(neither one was my car).     

It doesn't matter how low mileage of a car you have. Rubber deteriorates over time, not miles. Change out that Hi pressure power steering hose with a new one to avoid this kind of fire. 

South Paw, your point was well taken.  I would agree it would be better to have a fire extinguisher and never have to use it, then not have one and need one.  I also thank you for explaining the necessity of fire extinguishers with older cars.


[/quote]

[Bill Podany #19567]

Johnny & Others:

I have experienced the catastrophe of my national award winning 55 Eldorado (CLC & AACA Senior Division 100 point winner) turn into an inferno from a freak sticking of the carburetor float dumping gasoline on a hot manifold; the two fire extinguishers I had in the car helped retard the fire, but it took three bystanders who helped with their extinguishers to stop the fire.  Fortunately no one got hurt from the inferno.  This resulted in serious damage to the the car which required almost a total re-restoration that cost six figures and one year of work by a professional shop in Florida.  I carry two extinguishers in all my cars, and a first aid kit as well.  This is a horrifying and dangerous experience not only to the car owner, but to all the cars and people close to the fire.  All vintage car owners should take this precaution.

Bill Podany       

[quadfins]

To my way of thinking, it is more than just for an unexpected emergency at a car show. If you keep the extinguisher in the car, because you must have it for the shows, then it is there all the time, especially when you are driving to and from the shows. It seems to me that this is where it would be needed most, anyway. So by making us have one for a show, it extends protection for a much greater time frame. Subliminal, hidden agenda? maybe, but for a very worthwhile reason.

Jim Eccleston
1961 Coupe de Ville
BATILAC
with extinguisher behind the driver's seat, in the CLC-logo bag, ordered through the Self-Starter

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Due to all the discussion about fire extinguishers under the National Judging post,
I decided to add this postscript.

There is a big difference in the types of fire extinguishers you can purchase.

The best type out there is called Halotron.  It's an environmentally
friendly EPA approved Halon replacement.  Halon production was discontinued in 2002
due to the same reason freon was (environmental damage to the ozone layer).  The
government has sufficient stocks to last until 2030 and you can still purchase it, but it's
become extremely expensive.

Halotron, the replacement,  is an inert gas, BC rated, and is heavier than air.  It smothers
the fire and leaves no residue behind.  In addition to the actual fire damage, the damage
left from the dried bicarbonate (as in dry chemical type extinguishers) is a real problem to
clean up.  It doesn't wash off and leaves dried crud all over your engine components.  You
almost have to trash all your electrical components, and many of your engine components,
even if not fire damaged, because of this residue problem.

The government uses it in most all their equipment, airplanes, submarines,
computers, etc.  It's also used on commercial airliners.

You can get a 2.5 lbs Halotron extinguisher for about $125 from a number of sources
on the net.  A little more expensive but well worth it.

Mike

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Bruce and others -- You may not have seen a lot of fire extinguishers on the ground at Dearborn in 2002, because we used a drive-through station judging process over two days, but believe me, fire extinguishers were checked at the first judging station, and a couple cars were turned away for lack of extinguishers.  Paul Ayres   

G'day Paul,

Thanks for the explanation.

I have just checked every picture I took in the Show-fields at the 2002 GN, and not one Fire Extinguisher in sight, anywhere, in front of cars, beside them, and one car even had a Texaco Petrol Container in front of it.

Maybe the Show-field should just be called a Car Park?

Bruce.

[Johnny]

Bruce and others -- You may not have seen a lot of fire extinguishers on the ground at Dearborn in 2002, because we used a drive-through station judging process over two days, but believe me, fire extinguishers were checked at the first judging station, and a couple cars were turned away for lack of extinguishers.  Paul Ayres   

G'day Paul,

Thanks for the explanation.

I have just checked every picture I took in the Show-fields at the 2002 GN, and not one Fire Extinguisher in sight, anywhere, in front of cars, beside them, and one car even had a Texaco Petrol Container in front of it.

Maybe the Show-field should just be called a Car Park?

Bruce.

How about the interiors of the cars. as that is where the fire extinguisher is usually kept?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

How about the interiors of the cars. as that is where the fire extinguisher is usually kept? 

G'day Johnny,

I can't recall about what was in the interiors, but I can't recall seeing any in plain sight.   As each and every vehicle that I looked at appeared to be original in appearance, and a Fire Extinguisher would have stood out.   But, they may have been there.

So, if they were in the Trunks, and as we all know they are locked, then they would be useless.

What made me remark about the lack of them was that I have been send by various friends, pictures of recent car shows, and there is a Fire Extinguisher placed under each Left Front Wheel, which is what made me mention the "Wheel-chock" thing in the first place.

Bruce.

[David #19063]

So...wouldn't having a fire extinguisher in your car now make it "modified" as it was not original equipment?  LOL!

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

   I made this nice fire extinguisher tubular bag out of naugahyde and heavy clear plastic.  It lays inside the well of my '39 LaSalle and since the front is clear plastic, for judging it can easily be seen that it is the correct 10-A-B-C type. The fire extinguisher does not roll around or rattle and it was not necessary for me to install an ugly metal mounting bracket inside the trunk (I didn't want to drill holes either).  At a show I do not have to lay the fire extinguisher on the ground on a plastic tarp.  I can just leave the trunk open to display my correct trunk lining and my correct fire extinguisher.  The red metal box in the second picture is an old-style set of reflectors for emergency use.  Everything fits nicely.  A cover with matching Cadillac trunk lining material sits on top of these two items when car is not on display.  I did my own trunk lining installation, using material from Jenkins and I made sure that every diamond in the pattern lines up from one end to the other and side to side.

I also made another one of these fire extinguisher tubular bags for my 1966 Cadillac convertible and it lays nicely in the trunk between the spare and the rear of the trunk compartment - again no rattles and ready for judging, although I don't show the '66, as it is my dailly driver in the summer.  I plan to do the same for my modern cars as well as even a new car can have a problem.

Fred

[Roger Zimmermann]

Bruce and others -- You may not have seen a lot of fire extinguishers on the ground at Dearborn in 2002, because we used a drive-through station judging process over two days, but believe me, fire extinguishers were checked at the first judging station, and a couple cars were turned away for lack of extinguishers.  For those who object to this, I hope you never see a car fire at a show.  They do occur, and that is the reason for the requirement.  Paul Ayres

Hi Paul!
I was glad to speak with you at the GE in Germany. It is strange how countries react about fire extinguishers: did you see one in the Cadillacs gathered in Germany?