1952 Caddy Oil change

[domer]

DOMER, I can believe you when you say that your Father uses to offer to teach you a thing or two about ,what has turned out to be "old-cars", my son, who is now 55 annd still know evertyhing, was the same way. By the way, I had a Brother that was in the ARMY at Ft. Carson. Stopped to see him once while he was there.That part of CO. can and does get as cold as ND. Sounds like you should take a look-see at the carb. Good advise to presuize the coolant system ,while you can. just don't  over presuize it. Go  by the max.presure stamped on the Rad. cap. If there is an" auto hobby shop"on Post, you should be able to check-out a manual rad.cap checker. Now to the "sludge" I failed to say that you should cleanout the oil return hole in the block and heads with a stiff wire attached to the rag. Just like cleaning a rifie barrell. lol, HTH, JIM

.   Yes Sir I sure do regret not getting my hands a little dirty with my father.  Colorado does get cold. We have actually had a mild winter. I'm originally from Texas and have been stationed here almost five years. I absolutely love it out here. If I could, I would stay here. They will be moving us out of Colorado by Summer of 2010---not by choice.  I was planning on having the carb rebuilt.  The car is very original so I was planning to service pretty much every piece of mechanical equipment--generator, starter, carb, fuel pump, water pump, radiator. Not sure if I would try to do it myself or send it out.  I really want to do as much as possible myself to save a few dollars but mainly because I want to learn!!!  I had originally planned on doing the work with the engine still in place but after rereceiving all this great advice from everybody, I may pull the engine and of course add new motor mounts....So now the question arises..Do I want to do a complete engine rebuild. I guess my question will probably be answered once I pull the valve covers off and front cover.   As of now, I only removed the oil pan ad oil pump.
Oh and by the way, I  certainly know how to clean a rifle.  ha ha
Thank you very much
dominique

[domer]

"The oil did have a smell of fuel to it."

If your oil has a smell of gasoline you could very well have a leaking fuel pump diaphragm which is pumping fuel into the crankcase.  This is a bad situation and should be checked out immediately!  As a safety precaution get the diaphragm replaced, if you can find one, or put a rebuilt pump on.
Thank you!! Its funny you mention that...just today I read an article in the Self-Starter Magazine on fuel pump rebuilding for amateurs!   After reading the article, I am pretty confident I can tackle the task myself...what a great magazine!!  Any recommendations on the purchase of a complete rebuild kit and or the process?
Thanks
dominique

[domer]

This before and after picture of lifters from a 1930 Cad V 8 is a good example of what to expect when going into the valve body of an old engine with sludge build up. The before picture doesn't show the several handfuls of sludge that were removed prior to removal of the lifters.

Nice work and thanks for the pictures!!!  I can't wait to dig into my engine. I hope to pull the valve covers and dig a little deeper this weekend.  I guess I need to get the rags and and scrapers ready.  So I take it you re-used all or most of your original pieces, just gave them a thorough cleaning...kerosene???
Thank you
dominique

[domer]

Here are two photos of my 39 LaSalle engine before rebuilding.  The engine ran well in spite of this, but since I was doing a full restoration, pulled engine and had it rebuilt by Shepard's Automotive in Akron, Ohio.

Fred

Great pics!!    Thats the type of sludge buildup I'm expecting to see once I open up my engine. I will try to post pics as I work my way through the grease pit.
thanks very much
dominique

[domer]

Be sure to check the bottom of oil pan for acid rot.

Forgive me for being stupid, but what are you implying on the issue of acid rot??
What will this indicate?
I do have a question on my pan. Do they sell new pans for my 331 or will I have to use my original.   If so, what would be the correct process to get it back to its correct appearance inside and out. I had it steam cleaned but the pan seems to have surface rust spots throughout.   Would sandblasting or bead blasting be ok??
Thank you very much

[homeonprunehill]

DOMER, Acid rot in the pan is nothing to worry about. BUT you do have to take care of it , Does the pan show any signs of leaking?
When you sand the areas with rust, you will be able to tell if it will leak or not Soider any spots that look like it will leak from the interior , wipe-up any spot that you sand. Paint the pan on the extierior. That 1952 is 331CID. you have a computer. Do you have GOOGLE??  Makes no diffence which Search-Engine you have, go to  the CARBERATOR SHOP for a rebuilt kit for your fuel pump and  CARB. They have 585 cars listed, not all as I know of one made in Portland, OR that is not listed. It will cost you about $5 or 6 thousand to have you engine overhauled.  I was just reading some of your posts, you had a question about where to get parts.   Put , into your computer EGGE  of CA   and  TERRELL MACHINE of TX. One of these places should have the all matel timing gear and the gaskets you will need to reassembly the engine, Do not plan on disconnecting ANY OF THE ROD CAPS OR MAIN BEARING CAPS right now. HTH,JIM

[harry s]

Domer, The 1930 Cadillac lifter parts are all of the original parts taken apart, cleaned. lubricated and reassembled. During the process any parts that are defective can be replaced. Scraping, wire brushing with varsol (paint thinner) and steam cleaning along with a lot of elbow grease work in most cases. Good Luck, Harry

[domer]

DOMER, Acid rot in the pan is nothing to worry about. BUT you do have to take care of it , Does the pan show any signs of leaking?
When you sand the areas with rust, you will be able to tell if it will leak or not Soider any spots that look like it will leak from the interior , wipe-up any spot that you sand. Paint the pan on the extierior. That 1952 is 331CID. you have a computer. Do you have GOOGLE??  Makes no diffence which Search-Engine you have, go to  the CARBERATOR SHOP for a rebuilt kit for your fuel pump and  CARB. They have 585 cars listed, not all as I know of one made in Portland, OR that is not listed. It will cost you about $5 or 6 thousand to have you engine overhauled.  I was just reading some of your posts, you had a question about where to get parts.   Put , into your computer EGGE  of CA   and  TERRELL MACHINE of TX. One of these places should have the all matel timing gear and the gaskets you will need to reassembly the engine, Do not plan on disconnecting ANY OF THE ROD CAPS OR MAIN BEARING CAPS right now. HTH,JIM

Thank you very much.  I did some searching on the Egge Website.  Looks like a good site.  I'm still working on disassembling my components. Once complete, I will decide exactly what I need to order.
You mentioned not to disconnect  any rod caps  or bearings,  is this a difficult task for a  rookie.
Your input, as everyone's, is greatly appreciated. As I mentioned before, this is pretty much my first rodeo!

[domer]

Domer, The 1930 Cadillac lifter parts are all of the original parts taken apart, cleaned. lubricated and reassembled. During the process any parts that are defective can be replaced. Scraping, wire brushing with varsol (paint thinner) and steam cleaning along with a lot of elbow grease work in most cases. Good Luck, Harry

Thanks Harry.  Nice work!!  I just removed the valve covers last night to take a quick look. I will work on removing the heads today. If I remember to take any pics, I will post a few on here.
dominique

[homeonprunehill]

DOMER,JIM  here.  the reason I don't want you to take any of the BEARING CAPS off, is that you may  not have to overhaul the engine, not that there is anything hard about it. If you do have to overhaul the engine, you will want to keep the  rod caps numbered so you can put them back on the rods they came offmof. As for the main bearing caps, think they are all deference, the only thing you have to be sure you of is that you put the center one on in the same direction that you remove it. HTH,JIM P.S. did I read in one of your, post that you had the engine running ?  How many miles is on the clock ? Unless you have heavy rust in abe anjy clyinder there may not any need to overhaul At this time.

[domer]

DOMER,JIM  here.  the reason I don't want you to take any of the BEARING CAPS off, is that you may  not have to overhaul the engine, not that there is anything hard about it. If you do have to overhaul the engine, you will want to keep the  rod caps numbered so you can put them back on the rods they came offmof. As for the main bearing caps, think they are all deference, the only thing you have to be sure you of is that you put the center one on in the same direction that you remove it. HTH,JIM P.S. did I read in one of your, post that you had the engine running ?  How many miles is on the clock ? Unless you have heavy rust in abe anjy clyinder there may not any need to overhaul At this time.

Thank you for the very helpful input.  I wasn't able to do a thorough review of all my components as I had planned this past weekend.  The weekend seemed to just fly by. I was only able to remove my generator and I drained the coolant. Im really anxious to get in there and see what lies beneath.  Yes the car is/was a runner but I could tell that it needed some attention. The sludge in the oil pan has definately led me to dig a little deeper.  I don't have a clue on the miles. The odometer is non-functional.  I'm the third owner of the  car and bought it from an estate sale. I have a copy of the title dating back to the early 70's.  The interior is original and is very well preserved. Very little wear on the steering wheel or driver's seat. I will keep you posted on what I find

thank you
dominique

[domer]

Hello Everyone, Im back.
Just have a quick question. So I  finally removed the radiator and water pump to get to the front cover.  The fan pulley was easy to remove as well as the crank belt drive pulley.  I am not sure how to remove the second half of the crank pulley to  remove the front cover. The shop manual on says to remove the pulleys to get to the gears and chain but doesn't say how.  I used a 3/4" socket on the nut but of course the entire crank moved.  Do I need a pulley puller from an auto parts store or will the front cover come off without having to remove this part?
I have a few more pictures of the heads, water pump and oil canister (sludge city) . If anyone is interested  just shoot me an email and I will send them.
Thank you very much
Dom

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Dominique,

Yes, the Harmonic Balancer has to come off.

To stop the crankshaft from turning, you will probably have to remove the Starter Motor and once that is done, place a large Screw Driver in the hole and against one of the Flywheel Teeth on the Ring Gear.

This will take two people to complete the task as it is impossible to hold the Screw Driver, and undo the Bolt at the same time, as our arms aren't long enough to accomplish both at once.

I am not sure if a Puller is required to remove the Harmonic Balancer, seeing as it is retained by the bolt, but whatever you do, don't hit it with a hammer.

Bruce.

[Otto Skorzeny]

That's one helluva oil change you're doing Domer!

As we all have discovered with old cars, nothing is as simple or straightforward as you might think. A can of worms is always opened when doing the smallest "routine" maintenance jobs on a 50 year old unrestored car.

It's well worth it, though as my pictures below might suggest.

[P W Allen CLC# 20193]

Dom, Bruce gave you good advice. Especially, using a hammer. One thing you might try to get the bolt out which worked for me. Get the correct socket and a long breaker bar. turn the engine over with it until you come up to compression. Get the bar in a comfortable position and give it some quick hard jerks to the left. Mine broke free after a couple of trys. If it doesn't you'll have to go with the screwdriver in the flywheel route as Bruce described. You may need a puller, but I can tell you that mine slid right off once the bolt was removed. You will be replacing the front felt seal. Take a look at the photos of my old Balancer. You can see the grove worn in it where the seal rides. If yours looks like this, replace it, or your new seal will leak and you will have to pull the whole thing apart again(including dropping the pan) to fix it. I got my replacement balancer from USA Parts Supply. Good Luck!

[35-709]

There was recently quite a bit of discussion about harmonic balancers and their removal/installation.  Put "harmonic balancer" in the Search function.  One subject that you will find deals with balancer repair sleeves to fix problems just like PW Allen is talking about.  You do not necessarily have to replace a balancer with the wear shown. 

If you DO replace your balancer because of that kind of wear, DON'T throw it away!  It can be made perfectly serviceable and someone else might appreciate having it!

[domer]

G'day Dominique,

Yes, the Harmonic Balancer has to come off.

To stop the crankshaft from turning, you will probably have to remove the Starter Motor and once that is done, place a large Screw Driver in the hole and against one of the Flywheel Teeth on the Ring Gear.

This will take two people to complete the task as it is impossible to hold the Screw Driver, and undo the Bolt at the same time, as our arms aren't long enough to accomplish both at once.

I am not sure if a Puller is required to remove the Harmonic Balancer, seeing as it is retained by the bolt, but whatever you do, don't hit it with a hammer.

Bruce.
\

Ok. Thanks!!  Sounds pretty easy. I already had the starter off when I dropped the oil pan.  I planned on having the starter and generator rebuilt anyways.  A local shop that has been in business for a number of years quoted me at $150.00 to have the starter and generator rebuilt.   They rebuilt the generator on my 1962 Coupe Deville a couple of years ago.
If required, would a little bit of penetrating fluid along with  a few taps on the bolt head be ok with a rubber mallet.
Thanks Dominique

[domer]

That's one helluva oil change you're doing Domer!

As we all have discovered with old cars, nothing is as simple or straightforward as you might think. A can of worms is always opened when doing the smallest "routine" maintenance jobs on a 50 year old unrestored car.

It's well worth it, though as my pictures below might suggest.

Holy Smokes that is one beautiful gal(s). Yeah, I was kind of expecting the worse, once I saw all the sludge buildup on the bottom of my oil pan. So far,  I'm really loving every step of the way!! 
I really like the color of your Caddy.  I'm still looking for a 58 or 59 Fleetwood in that color.  I kind of became a Cadillac fan "overnight" about four years ago. I was in the market to purchase a classic car...nothing in particular. I immediately fell in love with a 62 Coupe Deville. I called my dad to let him know what I had bought.  He almost had a heart attack when I gave him all the details. It turns out his little brother used to own a 62 Cadillac  the exact same color as the one I had just purchased.  My uncle's life taken away at a young age.  I never ever knew that he owned a cadillac especially the same year and color.
Even though 58 and 59 are my dream cars, I have just recently been bitten by the bug of wanting to own a 55 or 56 Cadillac as well...of course my wife just shook her head..ha ha
Thanks
Dominique

[domer]

Dom, Bruce gave you good advice. Especially, using a hammer. One thing you might try to get the bolt out which worked for me. Get the correct socket and a long breaker bar. turn the engine over with it until you come up to compression. Get the bar in a comfortable position and give it some quick hard jerks to the left. Mine broke free after a couple of trys. If it doesn't you'll have to go with the screwdriver in the flywheel route as Bruce described. You may need a puller, but I can tell you that mine slid right off once the bolt was removed. You will be replacing the front felt seal. Take a look at the photos of my old Balancer. You can see the grove worn in it where the seal rides. If yours looks like this, replace it, or your new seal will leak and you will have to pull the whole thing apart again(including dropping the pan) to fix it. I got my replacement balancer from USA Parts Supply. Good Luck!


Great advice. I will give it a shot. If not, one of my buddies should be over tomorrow for a BBQ.  I can have him loosen the bolt while I hold the srew driver. I do have an older USA Parts Supply Catalog so I will give them a call for an updated price.
Thanks

Dominique

[domer]

There was recently quite a bit of discussion about harmonic balancers and their removal/installation.  Put "harmonic balancer" in the Search function.  One subject that you will find deals with balancer repair sleeves to fix problems just like PW Allen is talking about.  You do not necessarily have to replace a balancer with the wear shown. 

If you DO replace your balancer because of that kind of wear, DON'T throw it away!  It can be made perfectly serviceable and someone else might appreciate having it!

Thanks Geoff. I guess I should know better to use the search engine before I post anything as this site is filled with a wealth of knowledge.  I will indeed look this subject up. I will compare the price of a new one to the price of repairing my original balancer and make my decision.  Could you tell me what companies provide the sleeves for worn balancers?
thanks
dominique