OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can this be??????????????????!!!!!!

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

Never mind.  Just flipped the switch, and the clicking continued.  However, the charger was indicating 75 percent charged, I flipped the switch, looked again, and suddenly it was 100 percent charged.  I turned the switch again, and it remained at 100 percent.  Strange or not?

Rick - I hope this idea is worth looking at.  I recently had a similar experience with my '66 Cadillac.  When first connected, the charger quickly slowed down the charging rate, as if the battery was fully charged, yet the car would not start - one click, then no clicks.  I finally determined that my battery was fully charged, as a low battery would show up on the charger needle as needing charged. Since it indicated fully charged,  I then checked the battery cables on the battery and they were nice and tight and had good, clean connections - still wouldn't start.  Sometimes a click, sometimes no click, but usually one click, then no click.  My beautiful red Cadillac convertible was failing me for the first time. 

We all know the feeling - just like a guy who had his pickup truck stolen with his dog in it........

I finally pulled out my floor jack and two jack stands and crawled under the car.  A good tug on the battery cable where it connected to the starter motor showed a slight movement.  I removed this cable, cleaned the connections very carefully, reinstalled the cable and added a brass lock washer and tightened the bolt (to the starter) very securely.  It not only started, the car had not turned over that fast for some time.

Thinking back, I took the Cadillac to a local car show a few weeks prior, and after walking around for awhile, left for the day.  As I started the car, noticed a click, followed by a slight hesitation for a second or two and then it started.  That was my first clue of an upcoming problem, but since the car started, I gave it no more thought.

So if you are sure that you have a fully-charged battery, 90% of the time it is in the cable connections and most likely at the starter connection.  I later ordered from NAPA a pair of heavier gauge cables and installed them for extra starting power.  The heavier cables are not usually in stock, but can be ordered from NAPA for next-day delivery.   The only other thing it could be would be a bad starter, so when ordering the cables, I ordered a rebuilt starter from NAPA and put it the trunk as a spare in case ever needed some day.  I am thinking of buying a spare fuel pump for the same reason, although don't need anything now.

Fred

[Rick Biarritz]

Okay, the latest...  The charger says my battery is near dead again.  But it did start right up.  So I'm guessing it's old and needs to be replaced.  The pinging...  As noted earlier, it seems to be coming right from where I was working -- in and behind the glove box.  I tested the glove box light.  Works fine.  BUT... the trunk release button does not work.  Furthermore, when I press it, a whirring/squeaking noise can be heard and the button actually becomes hot.  I'm thinking this is the problem.  What to do?  Thanks.

[Rick Biarritz]

I will check this right away.  Thanks for the tips.

[Walter Youshock]

Sounds like the battery to me also.  Last year, I stopped at the grocery store 1/2 mile from the house.  I came out and the car was COMPLETELY dead.  It turned out to be a bad cell in the battery that just decided to quit.

[Guidematic]

On these cars, even with a good battery, leaving the doors open and the ignition on the battery will go dead in short order. If the battery is really flattened, then a trickle charger may not charge the battery properly. You need a proper battery charger, especially if it's a Delco battery.

Plus, a battery cannot be properly checked unless it is fully charged. If that battery is not charging, then you may have to remove it and take it somewhere where it can be properly charged and checked. Once it has been determined that the battery is good or bad, you'll need to have the charging system assessed. Remember, the battery and charging system have to be treated as a whole, one affects the other. A defective battery will over tax the charging system leading to a failed alternator, or a defective alternator may overcharge a battery and literally cook it.

Let's try and deal with this in a logical manner. The old "I had the same problem" posts generally lead to replacement of parts without fixing the problem. Diagnose the problem correctly, and fix it once.

Mike

[Rick Biarritz]

I will be taking the battery into Advance A. Parts today.  They do free battery checks, I believe.  Do you have any insights into the trunk release button not working, getting hot, and making noise?  Thanks.

[Rick Biarritz]

BTW, if a battery is fully charged last night, and then almost dead in the morning, that would be the battery, yes?  The charging system wouldn't come into play with a car merely sitting overnight, right?  I'm going to hook up the charger to my truck and see what kind of reading it gives me.  I know the truck is fine.  But, as I say, last night at 11pm the charger said my Caddy was fully charged, this morning, the charger's needle was almost all the way down.

[Guidematic]

If the battery is fully charged and it goes dead overnight, I would say yes if it was not connected to the cables. However, if the cables are still connected, I would look for a drain, or draw, that kills the battery.

Go back to what you did last. Remove the glove box and have a look for possible pinched or grounded wiring. If you did not have this problem before, then I would think you did something when you had the glove box out. The fact that the trunk release does not work now, and that the button gets hot, I would be looking there.

Mike

[Dan LeBlanc]

Get yourself a multimeter to see what the draw is on the battery when the ignition is off.  Leave your negative battery cable attached to the battery and disconnect the positive cable.  Then, hook up your multimeter with the black wire of the multimeter on the battery positive post and the red wire on the battery positive cable.  Your usual draw allowing for memory functions of on-board computers, clock, radio memory, etc should be about 10 milliamps if I remember correctly.  I you have significantly more, there is a short somewhere that's draining your battery.

Same goes for the hot switch and funky noise for your trunk release.  Either it is stuck or there's a short somewhere in the wiring to the release solenoid.  If it's getting hot to the touch though, I'm surprised the fuse isn't blowing unless it's either been bypassed or replaced with a fuse of the incorrect amperage.

[Walter Youshock]

I had an '82 Brougham that developed a short somewhere.  We could never find it.  The only way I was able to keep the car from going dead overnight was to pull the ignition fuse.

No matter how many times I took it to somebody, they could never find what was draining it.

[Dan LeBlanc]

I also neglected to mention that when you are checking the current draw on the battery, make sure all accessories, lights, equipment, etc are off.  If your reading is above what it should be, start pulling fuses one by one to see where the excessive draw is.  Then, once you know what circuit it is, you can start checking wiring and components on that circuit.

HTH.

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

Rick, As confounding and hard to analyze as your problem is, it's luckily (so far, at least) nowhere nearly as bad as I was sure it would be when I saw your subject line and knew you had just bought an HT4100 car.  Someone recently posted that he had bought one, spent $1,500.00 on maintenance items and then drove it THIRTY-FIVE miles before the engine blew.  Seeing OMG! How can this be?, I was sure that that had happened to you and I'm glad it didn't (so far).  P. S. "So far" is a disclaimer necessary when discussing HT4100's.

[Guidematic]

If you don't have a Digital multimeter, then you can use a test light across the battery and cable. If the test light lights, then you have a sufficient draw to kill the battery.

BTW, it is always recommended to remove the negative battery cable first and for this test to prevent shorting the cable or the test equipment should something touch a ground.

Mike

[jeff1956]

i sure feel bad for that poor guy spending all that money and then it failed so quickly.  wait, that was me !! i blame myself really...i was seeing what she was made of when she blew....cruising at 65 mph...evidentally she wasnt made of much, but she will come out of her slumber to ride again within the next year....may even drive her to the grand national next year...if i dare to trust the new ht4100 that will be installed. anyways back to the topic....

jeff

[Otto Skorzeny]

Every time I hear stuff like that I cringe. It's a shame such a beautiful body style was saddled with such a lemon engine. Those Eldos are about the only good looking American cars made during that time period.

The clone Rivieras and Toronados are also quite attractive. Are those two so different from the Cadillac that a complete drive train from either could not be dropped in? I guess if it could be done everybody would be doing it but what's the scoop?

Please enlighten us oh great and wise Mike Jones!

[Rick Biarritz]

The latest...  Dead battery again this morning.  Charged it up.  Per my neighbor's instructions, I got it running and disconnected the battery.  It kept running, which my neighbor says means the alternator is good.  Made sure the battery was fully charged, parked it, and disconnected the battery.  If the battery is dead in the morning, that means the battery is the problem, yes?  But...  took the battery to Advance Auto Parts today and they ran a test.  It came back as a good and strong battery.  Hmmm.  We shall see. 

[STDog]

Made sure the battery was fully charged, parked it, and disconnected the battery.

Charging a dead battery with an alternator is bad for the battery. Much better for the battery to charge it properly with a real charger.
The alternator is designed to top off the battery, and supply the power for a running engine. It doesn't properly monitor charging currents to correctly charger a dead or nearly dead battery. Using the alternator to charge a dead battery will shorten the life of the battery.

  If the battery is dead in the morning, that means the battery is the problem, yes? 

Only if it's disconnected over night (remover the battery cables). If it's connected to the car, then something in the car can drain it overnight.
If you have a short draining the battery, it will soon damage the battery too, as they are not designed to be fully discharged.

[Guidematic]

Jeez, I can't count how many times I have said it here, but NEVER EVER disconnect the battery when the engine is running. That is probably the most sure fire way of destroying your alternator in a hurry!

And Dog is right, also never use the alternator as a battery charger unless you want to burn it out. The alternator is designed only to top up the battery and run the accessories when the engine is running. Yes, they may be good for 120 amps, but that is only for short spurts. The heat generated by full output over a period of time will cook the stator windings. I liken it to asking a sprint runner to run a marathon. And like he said, the battery really does not like a full kick like that. A steady 40A charge over a couple of hours is the best way to charge a battery.

I'm offering advice here as to deal with the problem in the simplest and most direct method I can, but I certainly can't prevent such bad advice from others such as what has been done here this far, perhaps creating more problems along the way.

To answer Otto's question, the the Eldo, Toro and Riviera are based on the same body, however, the Eldo differs substantially in the electrical and drivetrain department from the other two. The Toro and Riviera used the same drivelines, and the same basic electrical systems.

As such, there is no easy bolt in replacement for the HT4100. The Eldo is the only one of the three to have EFI, and it is also tied in with the climate control for both driveability and on board diagnostics. Now, that is not to say you can't use the Olds based engines of the other two, which has been often done, but you have to reaslise that the differances require some fairly extensive modifications to the car. A parts car is really the best way to do it.

Mike

[Rick Biarritz]

Thanks for the tips.  I have been charging the battery using a battery charger, not the alternator.  Guess I won't take out the battery again with the car running, though.   The latest....  Bad news.  Charged the battery last night and then disconnected it.  This morning, praying for a dead battery, I went out and had a fully charged battery.  So here's where we stand... 

1.  I had a car that always started and gave me no problem in that regard.
2.  I took out the glove box and wiggled the rod and plastic arm that controls the blend door.  Period, end of story, did NOTHING else.
3.  The car died, probably, maybe?, because I had the doors and hood open and killed the battery. 
4.  Now apparently, I have a battery that will not hold a charge.
5.  Suddenly, the trunk release button does not work.  Normally, I would not mention that, but mysteriously, coincidentally???, the button and wires are located 2 inches from the rod/arm thing I touched. 
6.  Then there was the mysterious double click that I was getting from that exact same precise area.  This morning, the clicks, which had been around for 48 hours, are now gone.


Whoever can figure this out is a God amongst men.

[Guidematic]

5.  Suddenly, the trunk release button does not work.  Normally, I would not mention that, but mysteriously, coincidentally???, the button and wires are located 2 inches from the rod/arm thing I touched. 
6.  Then there was the mysterious double click that I was getting from that exact same precise area.  This morning, the clicks, which had been around for 48 hours, are now gone.


Whoever can figure this out is a God amongst men.

That's why I suggested to go back in there and inspect all the wiring. The logic here is that it worked before you went in there, and now it doesn't. Maybe it is a coincidence, but eliminate that possibility first. It may be as simple as that. Again, don't needlessly complicate the issue.

Mike