Shot down in flames (Car fire)

[Quinton Bradford #25053]

Well, my ride went up in flames this weekend.  Luckily, the firewall kept it contained, so there is only cosmetic damage to the hood and basically anything that would burn or melt or spew within the engine compartment.  Where is the first place to start to getting her back on the road?  Is there anything I can check to see if the engine is salvageable?  I assume, after it was on fire and then the fire dept hit it with the water, the block could be cracked or damaged?

Quinton

[Dave Shepherd]

Water sprayed on the engine will not crack a block.  First concern here is what started the fire, no?  Make sure no water entered the intake,. pull the plgs and turn the engine over by hand if possible.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

First of all, sorry about your fire damage.  That's something we all dread.

All of your electrical components, wiring and any rubber, plastic parts will have
to be replaced.  If it were my car, I'd probably pull the engine. If your not
knowledgeable enought to tear into it have a pro do it.

With all of that heat generated by the fire, then the water shock I would not
try to run the engine without having it checked first.

You're lucky as it appears they didn't use a dry chemical (sodium / potassium bicarbonate) extinguisher on it.  That does considerable damage to everything and is really tough to clean up.

One final piece of advice - keep a Halon (yes they are still available) or a Halotron
(the Halon replacement) fire extinguisher in your car.  I don't leave home without it!

Mike

[Otto Skorzeny]

Oh no! Quinton. I'm so sorry to hear that.

My '68 Camaro caught fire when I was in college. A faulty windshield wiper motor caught fire and melted everything made of rubber or plastic and burned the paint off the hood.

Fortunately I put out the fire with a blanket and the engine was cold anyway. I just had a new wiring harness installed and rebuilt the carburetor.



Clean all the melted crud off the engine.

The carburetor will probably need to be rebuilt due to all the rubber and gaskets involved which likely melted.

You'll need a new wiring harness - at least a front harness - for all the underhood connections.

I would be surprised if your block was cracked but it all depends on how hot things got and how much cold water was dumped on it. Was the engine hot or cold when it caught fire?

How extensive was the fire? Mine was confined to the top of the engine so I didn't have to worry about the rubber in the motor mounts or anything below the intake.

You might find that it was mostly fuel burning and that things lower down are ok.  Before pulling the engine out, get it on a lift to fully view the damage. Hopefully it's all confines to the top side.
That said, it will be a lot easier to clean up the the engine bay and install a new harness with the engine out of the way.

[Steve Passmore]

My condolences.     I guess there's no short cut here, Its a complete front end restoration, probably even some of the suspension rubbers?? and with that filler cap missing plenty of water in the motor.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Studying the photo again, it doesn't look as bad as it could have been.

You'll need a new coil, cap, rotor, wires, etc.

Was the oil cap on the filler tube when the fire dept hosed it down? Hopefully you removed it afterwards.

As soon as you can, drain the oil. Remove the plugs and check for water in the cylinders. Don't turn it over by hand or otherwise until you've determined that there is no water in the intake manifold.

With the carb off you can run towels in there to sop up any water.

Once you're satisfied that no water is in the crankcase or the cylinders, put some engine oil in each cylinder and turn the engine by hand to coat the cylinder walls with oil.

[Anthony Amman #15293]

Sorry to hear about the damage to your car.  If you do have water in the top end, you might also try using a powerful shop vac. to suction out water through the intake ports.  You could duct tape a smaller hose inside the inlet to the vac. if need be to snake it down into the manifold. Hopefully, none of this will be necessary.

Anthony

[Quinton Bradford #25053]

Was the oil cap on the filler tube when the fire dept hosed it down? Hopefully you removed it afterwards.
the intake manifold.

Thanks guys!!!  Once I read all of your suggestions, I had to take a better look.  The rubber sleeves are still attached to all of the spark plugs!  There are still rubber bushings attached to the tops of the shocks!  I got under it and it looks to be a mostly top fire.  There is still oil in engine, I just haven't drained it yet.  Once I do, I'll check to see if there is any water in there with it.  Thank you all for your hints and concern! I'll keep you posted.

[kelly]

Having suffered an engine fire at the near completion of my restoration, I might add a couple observations. First, unless you were running your car without an oil cap, I wouldn't be real freaked out by the idea that huge amounts of water made their way into the crankcase. Air cleaner is on, same concept for water down the carb. When mine caught fire, the engine was idling. The well developed fireball starved the engine of oxygen, thus stalling the engine. In my case, a faulty fuel pump gasket caused a pressure leak. Engine off, fuel supply gone. Most damage was cosmetic.
  If you have great insurance, like Hagerty, that should have been your first call. They need to see what happened, without any attempts to "clean up". The adjuster I worked with was fast, fair, and extremely courtious and understanding. He spotted stuff I would have been days finding, and I had a check that was more than fair within 3 days. Let the system work for you.
  Don't pull the engine until evidence shows you need to. Unless the hood is absolutely buckled beyond salvation, it was not that hot. I would guess most of the fire was a result of seals, rubbers and old oil burning off.
  Start by closing the oil filler tube, cover the air cleaner intake hole, disconnect the battery, and wash the mess with a pressure washer after applying a good degreaser to the whole hot mess. Then take stock of what the real damage is. New wires, hoses, belts, paint, fluids, oil the cylinders , crank with plugs out , then run.  I did all of this "in car". Engine was, and is fine. Front suspension was not affected by this brief, but hot, fire. New hood pad prevented hood paint from any damage (best $80 I ever spent). In the end, if it needs it, do it, but don't assume catastrophic. Each piece speaks for itself. Relax, look at what you have and listen to what the evidence tells you.  In the words of Jack Nicholson's character in "The Departed", "wer'e all dying, conduct yourself accordingly." It isn't bad until it's bad.  Take a deep breath.
Kelly Martin

[Steve Passmore]

Quote "Don't pull the engine until evidence shows you need to." Quote

I have restored a car that was fire damaged in the engine bay and not wishing to detract from Kelly's excellent advice a person would be giving himself a mammoth task trying to restore that bay while the motor is still there. For how long it takes to pull the engine its just not worth the trouble leaving it there, This is just my personal view but I have also repaired smoke damaged houses and the smoke damage is in some ways worse than the fire damage.      You replace the fire damaged stuff, but the smoke damaged has to be cleaned and repainted in situ. Very hot smoke burns itself into the paint surface.  Ive seen that stuff burn through to the surface of 4 layers of new paint. That will be the devil to restore that firewall with the motor in place, so I think the evidence already shows . 
looking at the pictures and what you describe you see Quinton I think the engine survived and its manly cosmetic apart from what the fire melted.  Still a nasty thing to have happen and good luck with whatever you decide you have to do.
Steve

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Quinton,

Boy, what a sad thing to happen.   At least you are not hurt yourself.

Bruce.

[Dan LeBlanc]

Did you figure out what caused the fire?  I had a 3 month old Grand Am catch on fire in 2002 as a result of a bad wiring harness to the wiper motor and caused $14,000 in damage (and it was only a minor under hood electrical fire).

[76eldo]

I would try to locate a parts car so that you will have all of the little bits and pieces you will need, plus you will have an assembly guide in 3D.

Brian

[John Polychron]

Sorry about your fire. Someone recommended Halon for a fire
extinguisher. I read somewhere that that is worse than CO2.
Am I right?
John

[Otto Skorzeny]

I think you misread.

Halon is a gas that reacts with oxygen, removing all oxygen from the fire and thus killing it. It doesn't adversely affect anything (other than the ozone layer supposedly).

They use Halon systems in mainframe computer rooms so that no unnecessary damage ocurrs if there is a fire.

They're still available if you can find them but no new ones are being made or sold.

[Sweede64]

Sorry about your fire. Someone recommended Halon for a fire
extinguisher. I read somewhere that that is worse than CO2.
Am I right?
John
[/quote

Co2 is the best way to put out a car fire, no resedu, everything ewaporates, its like snow. However the firedept, allways use water, and lots of it. a powder extinguisher is the worst for a car, its allmost impossible to clean out.

If the car was mine i would remove the entire fron, hood, fenders, grille engine etc. Have the parts mediablasted and repaint it, when rubber, paint and plastic burns accid fumes are developed and in a short while it starts to rust, look at a burnt car in the scrapyard...
Halon is an OK extinguisher but it doesent cool down the metall, if there is gasolin and enough heat left the fire will start again.


Too bad about the car, hope you get it back toghether again.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

I think you misread.

Halon is a gas that reacts with oxygen, removing all oxygen from the fire and thus killing it. It doesn't adversely affect anything (other than the ozone layer supposedly).

They use Halon systems in mainframe computer rooms so that no unnecessary damage ocurrs if there is a fire.

They're still available if you can find them but no new ones are being made or sold.

There is plenty of Halon still available (they made tons of it before production was stopped).
The replacement is Halotron, chemically similiar and does not deplete the ozone layer.  It's
cheaper than Halon and readily available.  As previously posted, it does no harm and deplets the fire of oxygen since it is heavier than air and a non-reactive fluocarbon-type product.  In other words, it smothers the fire without ruining your car any further from the fire.

BTW, I mistakenly mentioned "CO2" in my earlier post as causing residue as being hard to remove -- I mispoke there.  I was thinking of dry chemical types (sodium / potassium bicarbonate) and have since amended the post.  CO2 is OK but the Halotron / Halon types are far superior.

Mike