1958 Radiator Hose clamps. Advise needed.

[Grant Owen]

Jon, I am also posting information to help others on this board , I just find it strange how Cadillac would use this type of clamp for one year only when no other GM products used this type of clamp.The heater hose clamps Corbin single wire was used in 57 & 59 so why would 58 be any different.
I don't have all the answers & I am still learning I live in New Zealand where Cadillacs were never sold new & I wasn't even a Twinkle in my farthers eye in the 50's 60's 70's , so everything I have learnt has been from working on these cars , message boards like this & lots of reading & research.
I find debates like this interesting & informative and hopfully the correct answer will be found which will only help others.

[Jon S]

Grant -

I was around when my dad bought his new 1958 and my second cousin bought his new 1957.  I clearly remember the Corbin clamps on the 1957 heater hoses and I believe also on the radiator hoses.  I also remember the corbin clamps on dad's 1959 Pontiac.  Additionally I remember him comparing the differences between the 1957 and 1958 and commenting on the change of hardware relative to the hose clamps.  He was also glad he had to contend with the Corbin clamps on only one car - the Pontiac and bought special pliars to change those hoses.  As I've mentioned, dad and I did all the work on the cars ourselves and he changed the anti-freeze yearly as they recommended back then.  When I see my friends 1958 convertible; hopefully, the mystery will be solved.

Jon

[Jon S]

Grant -

I'm only posting information to assist others on this board.  These are the clamps my dad's late production 1958 came with from the factory.  This is an unmolested car as are all of my others.  I have no knowledge of marine clamps or their availability.  I will be rebuilding my friends Rochester 4GC in the next month or so.  His 1958 convertible is 100% untouched and still has the original hoses/clamps on it.  I'll take pictures of his setup when I see it.

Jon

To follow up (as promised), attached is a photo of my friends original 1958 engine - same clamps as on my dad's.  As I've stated before, my dad was a stickler to keep everything Factory Original and he kept the original hose clamps when he replaced the hoses.  These are the clamps used by Cadillac in 1958 - not Corbin or Tower!  Pics below of my friends original and mine:

Jon

[Grant Owen]

Jon, I am not convinced GM never used Stainless Radiator hose Clamps, from looking at the pictures of both Engine bays many things have been changed over the years & are not correct, Looking at yours just to point out a couple of items of the many that have been changed over the years & are not original are the Oil breather cap , Radiator Cap , Decals. With the many things that have been changed over the years due to maintenance  I would suggest the clamps on both cars have been changed.

[Jon S]

Jon, I am not convinced GM never used Stainless Radiator hose Clamps, from looking at the pictures of both Engine bays many things have been changed over the years & are not correct, Looking at yours just to point out a couple of items of the many that have been changed over the years & are not original are the Oil breather cap , Radiator Cap , Decals. With the many things that have been changed over the years due to maintenance  I would suggest the clamps on both cars have been changed.

For some reason Grant you appear to be rather confrontational.  The oil breather cap happens to be the original - I did add a sticker to it .  The only other "decal' is on the oil filter assembly as the original lettering was chipped.  I have since replaced the Radiator Cap with the original.  The lettering on the air cleaner is original. 

I thought one of the guidelines of this Forum was not to attack other members?  I'm sharing information about a car that was purchased new and meticulously maintained long before the term "restoration" existed.  I checked my friends original one to confirm the radiator hose clamp for the member who started this thread and confirmed that both cars do have the exact same clamps.  This should be viewed as beneficial information; not confrontational.

[Jon S]

I am leery of posting an opinion so as not to anger Jon. I even hate to tell him as our cars may someday end up being judged against each other.

I'm currently having a 58 Cadillac restored by one of the best guys in the business (34 years full time of professionally restoring only 1950's Cadillac's and 1950's Buick's with a number of national awards).

One of the items he changed out to be correct was the fuel pump. This restorer told me 58 is a one year only fuel pump and that the top piece is slanted.

The pump he removed from my car so he could replace with the correct slanted version is the same pump I now see in the picture on Jon's car.

I found a correct slanted rebuilt at Arizona vintage Parts in Glendale Arizona and the owner of that business confirmed the slant top was the correct pump.

It also cost more because i didn't have a correct core.

Why would that "anger" me?  The slant AC pump is correct. I have the original one currently off the car and you are 100 percent correct. I have never had my car or any others I own judged and don't plan to. I enjoy driving them and keeping them pristine. I was just trying to help you in reference to the hose clamps. As to "experts," I've seen professionally restored 1957 and 1958's done by the best with engine blocks painted in 1976 Cadillac Blue. A car is only original once and back in the 50's most people didn't care about originality. My dad always replaced parts with genuine AC Delco parts and many differed from the factory installed parts like the crimped fuel pumps.

[Grant Owen]

Jon, I am not being confrontational I am just trying to point out the obvious after 55 years of maintenance the radiator clamps would have been replaced in 1958 GM NEVER used stainless clamps or the type of clamp you show . I am not trying to attack you , at least we can agree on something to disagree.

[Jon S]

Jon, I am not being confrontational I am just trying to point out the obvious after 55 years of maintenance the radiator clamps would have been replaced in 1958 GM NEVER used stainless clamps or the type of clamp you show . I am not trying to attack you , at least we can agree on something to disagree.

Grant -

I've explained I worked on the 1958 with my dad and we did all maintenance on the car with the exception of mounting tires and were sticklers for re-using parts such as the radiator hose clamps. I was curious about the doible wire clamps as my 1973 Lincoln uses those as well as the 1957 Corbits and the older Tower clamps. With that said, I offered to check my friend's original unmolested 1958. When I discovered the exact same clamps on his car that served as validation to me. You decide what is correct for you. I was only trying to help and assist in the authentication process since very few of us have 1958's from new. TIf anyone else has an original 1958 please tell us your findings. We are all seeking authencity.

Jon

[Blade]

Got the car out today.  I believe these are the original factory clamps (re-used) that came on the 1958 my dad purchased brand new. They are made by Ideal, but as described previously they have significantly more solid stainless surface area than aftermarket Ideal clamps with their many cutouts for the worm  gear adjustment.  Also notice they have a round slotted screw; no hex head/slot like aftermarkets:

I got the exact same kind on my '59. I can't say for 100% that they're the originals but they are exactly the same as yours. My car has less than 79,000 miles on it, had been sitting pretty much since the late 70s. Both of my heater hoses are missing but I found two tower type clamps (with some fancy markings about the manufacturer from Chicago), they were on the top of the engine burried in dirt/oil where the heater hoses supposed to be attached to the heater. I'll take some pictures, these survived in great condition. I also have an original shop manual but I couldn't find any pictures or information about the hose clamps - except how to torque them.

[Grant Owen]

Tibor, 59 Cadillac Radiator hose clamps were the tower type they were NEVER worm drive.

[Jon S]

Jon, I am not being confrontational I am just trying to point out the obvious after 55 years of maintenance the radiator clamps would have been replaced in 1958 GM NEVER used stainless clamps or the type of clamp you show . I am not trying to attack you , at least we can agree on something to disagree.

I'm curious how you can state " in 1958 GM NEVER used stainless clamps or the type of clamp you show."  How old are you and how many original 1958 Cadillacs did you buy new or close to new and work on in the late 1950's/1960's?  You obviously have no clue, but are trying to convince my dad's bought new 1958 had its clamps changed when I've assured you and this Forum that we never changed them and supported it further with my friend's original 1958 pictures.  You go on further to tell Blade he is wrong as to his 1959.  Maybe in 1959, the Dealer's had the 1958 stainless clamps in their Parts Department and used them when replacing radiator hoses at the Dealership???  Why is it that you do not believe what is presented to you as factual?  Do some more research before you make statements like  in 1958 GM NEVER used stainless clamps or the type of clamp you show.

If you had a fuel pump changed in the 1950's, the replacement AC Delco was not the slanted type AC with screws; but rather a gold anodized grimped together flat top pump.  I know because I sold them.  When someone has knowledge, listen as opposed to deny what they are sharing.

Jon

[Grant Owen]

Jon, you seem to be getting so upset about this, I will stand by my statement that GM never used Stainless Worm Drive clamps on the Radiator hoses in the 50's 60's ,  I consider my input on this to be closed.
And to answer your question about my age & experience I am younger than most on this Forum , live in New Zealand where Cadillacs were never sold new. Bought my first Cadillac when I was a teenager a 1964 Eldorado , have since owned & restored about 40 Cadillacs from 1957 to 1964. I have owned many low milage cars & have done lots of research. I also in my spare time make reproduction Cadillac parts , I get emails & phone calls from all around the world asking me for advise on restoring Cadillacs, look at some of my previous posts on cars that I own & some of the restoration work I do. Bashing people because of there age is a very negative , If younger people don't get involved with these cars eventually the hobby will die.

[Jon S]

I do not understand how you can confuse sharing supportive information with being upset, but so be it.  I know the complete history of my car and my friend's 1958, so your statement " in 1958 GM NEVER used stainless clamps or the type of clamp you show" is both foolish and non-supportive.  I had no idea of how old or young you are.  Since you claim to do lots of research, maybe you should accept supportive information from people who were there when these cars were new and worked on them when they needed their 1st radiator hose changed.  I was there.  Enough said.

[Blade]

These are the clamps I found on top of the engine under the intake buried in dirt/oil. These are the only tower type clamps I found ...

[Blade]

The death car Caddy does have a tower clamp, but that's a '59:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=1014&aid=221

[Walter Youshock]

'57 used the towers as well.

[Jon S]

'57 used the towers as well.

Walter -

1957's used Corbin clamps.

Jon

[Walter Youshock]

NO, THEY DID NOT!

[Jon S]

I know the Heater hoses used Corbins and remember my second cousin's 1957 Fleetwood as having them on the Radiator hoses as well on his new Cadillac in 1957.  The heater hose clamps are illustrated in the 1957 Shop Manual; unfortunately, the Radiator clamps are only from my memory.

[Walter Youshock]

I look forward to working with you on the Class 16 Authenticity Manual.  You appear to have a wealth of information.