61-64 wheels not all the same

[Jeffrey Burland]

I was under the impression all regular line 61-64 wheels are the same per the MPC. Yes, I know cc are riveted. They say gray or black. Fine. Why are some measuring 16.5 and others measuring 16-11/16" OD? They fit inside each other. Seems the wheel covers have a tough time on the smaller ones. Where did the smaller ones come from ? or were there really two sizes?

[Jason Edge]

I checked my 66, 68 and 69 Master Parts book and they all list one rim for the regular body styles from 61 to 64: group 5.803 pt # 1476584

[Jeffrey Burland]

Thanks, Jason. Yes, as I mentioned in the original post <<61-64 wheels are the same per the MPC>>. Maybe I phrased the question incorrectly. Some of the parts cars I have, I thought were very original. It seems some of these have 1/4" smaller wheels and are identical to the other 61-64s in all other ways. Have you run across ANY of these smaller type wheels on the 30 or so parts cars you've run across. Tough to tell if not measured. When I worked for a guy doing pre 70 Cadillac service work, I remember him having a tough time with 63-64 wheel covers all the time. He was old school and cut his teeth on 50s and 60s GMs. Seems he would have known something about this rather than try and wedge these covers on to incorrect wheels. I wonder if any one else has any insight as to which other GMs these could have come from AND if anyone has these smaller wheels on an original car.  thanks, Jeff

[Ken Perry]

I too came accross one of these smaller wheels, I put a old wide white on it and a 61 cap and made yard art out of it! I had to bend all the tangs on the cap in and still had a very hard time getting the cap on!I have messed with a lot of 61-64 wheels and had never seen one? Didn't know what to think about it?This one came off the back of a 61 Fleetwood? Ken Perry 

[Jason Edge]

Jeff, You didn't indicate which year Master Parts Book you had verified this in.  Sometimes replacement part #'s changes through the years in the Master Parts book and I was simply indicating I had looked at the 1966, 1967 and 1969 master parts book and they were all the same.  I always refer people to the 1969 Master Part book for the Lo and Hi note horns for a 1963 Cadillac as an example of a later/newer part replacing an earlier style part.  It was just a double check of multiple years to see if there was any variation in the listing, which again you do sometimes find when items are replaced with newer parts.

With that said, I have only dealt with the 39 1963 & 1964 parts cars I have brought in.  I have found that sometimes they (previous owners) have swapped out the original 16 11/16" 63/64 rims with the smaller 16 7/16" diameter 65 and later rims and wheel covers.   Just looking at them they look exactly like the 63/64 rims and until you go to put the 63 or 64 wheel cover on them, do you notice they are smaller diameter.

My guess would be that if the 61, 62, or 63/64 wheel covers are too small for these other rims you have found, that they are not original rims.  I could be wrong but seeing several sets of "original looking but actually not original" later model rims on the 63/64 parts cars I have brought in I would have to go with the master parts book on this one.

[Jeffrey Burland]

Jason, did you mean to say <<I have found that sometimes they have swapped out the original 15 11/16" 63/64 rims with the smaller 16 7/16" diameter 65 and later rims and wheel covers.>> or original 16-11/16" 63/64 rims ? I know GM stamps the wheels inside. It will be stamped 15x6 with two letters and then two numbers for the year. There's also a two letter stamp on the face. I believe at the outer lip. What do you see as the outer lip stamp on the majority of yours?

[Jason Edge]

 I have found that sometimes they (previous owners) have swapped out the original 16 11/16" 63/64 rims with the smaller 16 7/16" diameter 65 and later rims and wheel covers.  The last 64 parts car I brought in had the smaller diameter later model rims.   I think 3 parts cars back also had the smaller rims and some 73 "moonies!" LOL.  People mix and match rims all the time.  I have sold my last two sets of 65/66 rims. (posted them here some time back.)  I will have to check my rims on my personal 63/64 CDV sometime. I have no other loose rims right now as the 61 to 64 are in pretty high demand.

What date stamp did you find on the smaller rims you are referencing?

[cadillactim]

Here's something to consider.  Both my 1964 and 1969 MPC gives part number 1476584 for all models except series 75, which is part number 1476586.

However, my 1971 MPC gives the part number 1476586 for ALL models.  Were the commercial rims riveted in 1961-64 or not?

The parts books say the 1476584 rims are gray, but the 1476586 could be gray or black.

Does this add to the confusion?

Of the many cars I have parted I did notice some 1961-64 rims had raised "dimples" around the bolt holes, and some didn't.

Tim

[n2caddies]

I had no idea there were differences. No wonder I have had trouble with wheel covers fitting between 2 1960s I've had. Found myself starting to beat a set of Eldo hubcaps onto another car before coming to me senses. Seems like the edge of the wheel was slightly different.
Randy

[Jason Edge]

for 63 & 64,  riveted together and are of heavier stock thickness. I've parted 4 75 series and all had the riveted rims.  I've found no inconsistency in the many 63 & 64's I've parted out and looking at wheel covers and what they fit, have found the later model smaller rims and (and smaller wheel covers) consistent with the Master Parts Book. I would be hard pressed to see the Parts Dept selling a rim say for your 1961 Cadillac where the 1961 wheel cover would not fit.  With that said, cars are often changed around.  The recent 1964 Parts car with the 1973 "moonies' and smaller diameter rims which were useless in terms of trying to install the large diameter original 63/64 wheel covers is a good example.

[Jeffrey Burland]

Tim,
Yes, the '57-'60 have triangular 'dimples'. The 61-64s have bumps 'connected' by a slight raised mounded ring between them. 65-67 have the bumps only and 68-76 are flat. 68s are gray, 69-76 black. As far as I know, all series 75 and CC were always riveted. Maybe by '71 they ran out of the regular non riveted and had the less popular heavy duty riveted wheels left. Since they work, let them eat cake!

Jason,
The date code on the smaller wheel I had was 19(66).

I would still like to know what guys have for two letter codes next to the '15x6' stamp on the inside and the two letter code stamp on the edge.

[Jason Edge]

Jeff, that makes sense. So far we have not confirmed a 61-62 (or 61 to 64 for that matter) smaller rim verified via a date stamp....only later model rims that were obviously installed on these cars at some point.

I did find my notes on the 1965 16 7/16" diameter rims I brought in a while back and the '65' was stamped on the front face by the valve stem. Inside where it slopes it was stamped 15 x 6 JK, Kelsey Hayes.  Kelsey Hayes being the manufacturer.