Floor coverings 1940 LaSalle 5067 MORE INFO NEEDED

[D Brooks]

OK guys, I am still trying to determine the proper floor coverings for my 14,000 actual mile LaSalle Series 5067. My car is Oxblood Maroon with trim code 23 (Black leather).

A few months back I posted here about the front floor mat and received a lot of help from members regarding same. I also now have the authenticity manual which has some info about this subject. However there are still some things that are not clear so please excuse me, but here I go again.

The Authenticity guide states that a 1940 Series 5067, trim 23, should have black interior with gray carpet, furthermore a brown rubber front floor mat with gray carpet inserts and a brown rubber rear mat is correct oem. I know everybody uses a 1940 Buick mat that most have sourced from Bob's Automobila. This mat is as close as you can get to the original LaSalle mat. It is all rubber so you have to make and install your own carpet inserts. Everyone I have spoken to who has this mat has it in the brown colored version. I think the statement in the Authenticity manual is based on seeing cars with this repro mat installed. I know the manual is incorrect in the rear mat being brown as I have the original rear mat for my car and it is definitely black (see photo). I also have a few pictures of original mats in sedans. One is a series 52 and from what I can see the front mat is black on that car (see photo). Some of the others seem to be brown.

After buying a mat (in brown) from Bob's, I now find out that the same mat is available in black. Aesthetically, to me, a black mat coordinates much better with gray carpet, black rear mat and a black interior than a brown one will. However, I lean towards authenticity with this car rather than personal preference so at this point I'm at a bit of a loss as to which way to go.

Also, another member has posted here in the past, that the carpet inserts for the front mat should be cut-pile carpet in what some call "field mouse brown" (from LeBarron Bonney). This seems to hold true in the few original mats I've seen (again in sedans with cloth interiors). Does anyone know if there is any oem documentation regarding these issues?

So members,please advise me as what would be most correct for my car, black or brown mat, gray wool carpet inserts (same as rear carpet) or "field mouse brown" cut pile?

And one more thing, The carpeted end covers ( on the bottom of the front seat), keeping in mind my seats are black leather, should this carpet be black or gray to match the rear floor carpet (see photo below)?

Thanks in advance for all contributions to this subject

Dan Brooks
Brighton MI
517 304 6306

[Fred Zwicker #23106]

i have a 1939 LaSalle Convertible Coupe and when purchased it had all maroon carpet from the previous owner.  Car is Oxblood Maroon.  I did a lot of research and finally purchased a brown Buick mat from Bob's in California. Doing further research from creditable sources, I purchased cut pile in what is best described at "Field Mouse Brown" and it looks period correct.  Since the car is maroon, I used the same color carpet in the rear to be consistent.  It has been many years since this was done, but I documented most all of the restoration at www.fzoldcars.com   Please check that site for additional information. It is hard to say if black rear carpet were to be used with a front brown rubber mat and brown inserts, but anything is possible. I wouldn't like it.  To my knowledge a brown rubber mat with inserts is original for the 1939 LaSalle. You have a 1940, so the color scheme could very well have been changed.  As for the carpet on the rear of the seat, I cannot recall if I used maroon carpet to match the leather, or the brown to match the inserts and rear carpet.  Car is not at home, so cannot check from here. Sorry I cannot offer any more assistance.    Fred

[D Brooks]

i have a 1939 LaSalle Convertible Coupe and when purchased it had all maroon carpet from the previous owner.  Car is Oxblood Maroon.  I did a lot of research and finally purchased a brown Buick mat from Bob's in California. Doing further research from creditable sources, I purchased cut pile in what is best described at "Field Mouse Brown" and it looks period correct.  Since the car is maroon, I used the same color carpet in the rear to be consistent.  It has been many years since this was done, but I documented most all of the restoration at www.fzoldcars.com   Please check that site for additional information. It is hard to say if black rear carpet were to be used with a front brown rubber mat and brown inserts, but anything is possible. I wouldn't like it.  To my knowledge a brown rubber mat with inserts is original for the 1939 LaSalle. You have a 1940, so the color scheme could very well have been changed.  As for the carpet on the rear of the seat, I cannot recall if I used maroon carpet to match the leather, or the brown to match the inserts and rear carpet.  Car is not at home, so cannot check from here. Sorry I cannot offer any more assistance.    Fred

Thanks Fred for the response. I did come across your site back in March when I first bought my car. Yours is gorgeous! I saved all your photos in a reference file so I could refer to them.

I just can't seem to bring myself to use a brown mat in a black interior car (with gray carpet, gray trim). Nobody seems to have a definitive answer on the 1940. Hill Jenkins has told me that GM had a black mat for the first time in 1940 and I do have that 1 photo of an original 1940 Series 52 sedan with what looks like a black mat in the front. I can't imagine GM would be getting mats from a vendor with all these variations of carpet insert colors. I would imagine cost-wise they would at most have 2 variations (Black and Brown) with the same coordinating carpet color inserts in each. In a mass production environment it just makes more sense that way. Also, why would a company reproducing these mats make a black one if there never was a black one originally?

Unless someone can prove elsewise I think I will give in to my personal preference and go with the black mat with some darker black based cut pile, similar to what you used , for inserts. Then gray for the rear carpet as noted in the guide. The seat ends are another issue to study more.

Thanks again for your help. I enjoyed reviewing the restoration of your car. I'll keep you informed if I find any primary source information in the future

Regards
Dan

P.S. I desperately need a turn signal switch for this car, if you happen to know of one out there.

[srk1941]

You don't think the carpet inserts would have matched the carpet in the back?

[D Brooks]

You don't think the carpet inserts would have matched the carpet in the back?

I'm unsure! All the original mats I have seen thus far have the "Field Mouse Brown" inserts as described by Fred Z. What is your opinion?

D.B.

[D Brooks]

I'm unsure! All the original mats I have seen thus far have the "Field Mouse Brown" inserts as described by Fred Z. What is your opinion?

D.B.

Steven, I noticed you posted about this back in April when I was discussing it:

Bob's also has this for a 1941 Buick Roadmaster, which was a "C" body like the '41 Cadillac convertible coupe. Would this work for a 1941 Cadillac convertible? Were those floormats black or brown?

http://bobsautomobilia.com/shop/interior-floors-and-doors/floormat-brown-trimmed-for-1941-s.50-70-.-ff-418bn.html

I bought 2 of those mats from Bob. They are marked for Series 40-60 - 1941-48 Buick. The pattern of these mats is incorrect for my Series 50 LaSalle, but it does look proper for the 1940 Series 52 and I would bet for 41 Caddy also. If you want one, let me know as I was told I got the last 2 Bob had.

D.B.

[Tom Boehm]

Hello Dan, Based on information you gave in your post, I would go with a black mat with gray carpet insert. You cannot argue with what is original in your car. (the black rear mat). This is a good example of why the authenticity manual is vague and or incorrect sometimes despite the authors best efforts. It is very difficult to track down the few remaining original cars spread out all over the country to make a definitive statement about every detail. After publication other original cars may come to light with certain details intact that the manual was vague about. I consider myself a stickler for authenticity but there have been times on my 40 Lasalle that I just had to make a decision and go with it without a definitive right answer.
     1940 Lasalles came with a choice of a tan or gray interior. It would make sense that they made both brown and black mats. The color of the carpet insert seems to be in question. If you like gray, go with gray.

[D Brooks]

Hello Dan, Based on information you gave in your post, I would go with a black mat with gray carpet insert. You cannot argue with what is original in your car. (the black rear mat). This is a good example of why the authenticity manual is vague and or incorrect sometimes despite the authors best efforts. It is very difficult to track down the few remaining original cars spread out all over the country to make a definitive statement about every detail. After publication other original cars may come to light with certain details intact that the manual was vague about. I consider myself a stickler for authenticity but there have been times on my 40 Lasalle that I just had to make a decision and go with it without a definitive right answer.
     1940 Lasalles came with a choice of a tan or gray interior. It would make sense that they made both brown and black mats. The color of the carpet insert seems to be in question. If you like gray, go with gray.

Tom,

Thank you for your advice and input, it makes sense. I'm very true to authenticity especially with this car. I also like to answer the unanswered questions with backed up documentation / research,  but I guess in this instance I need to throw in a little personal preference, so black it is!

If you get a chance to post a photo of your car I'd love to see it.

All the best
D.B.

[Tom Boehm]

Hello Dan, Mine is a 1940 Lasalle 50 series commercial chassis with a custom built woodie station wagon body installed in 1940. Go to www.lasallewoodie.com for more info and pictures.

[D Brooks]

Hello Dan, Mine is a 1940 Lasalle 50 series commercial chassis with a custom built woodie station wagon body installed in 1940. Go to www.lasallewoodie.com for more info and pictures.

Oh yes, now I remember you, that 1 of a kind woodie! GREAT! I have the pics of the mat you sent me back in April.

[ebuliavac]

Dan,

Regarding your P.S. comment; what is needed as to your turn signal switch?  I haven't seen switches themselves for sale for this model car.  The Master Parts List has a drawing with the components.  You might have to make new contacts for the switch if it is not conducting electricity when needed.  It's pretty straightforward.  Let me know what you think, and hopefully others will weigh in; I need to rebuild the switch in my '40 Cadillac as well.

On the floor mats, I have only seen brown, but the sales data book for that year emphasizes the availability of customization.  If someone wanted a black mat, and one was available, it is certainly something Cadillac would have done. 

Ed Buliavac

[D Brooks]

Dan,

Regarding your P.S. comment; what is needed as to your turn signal switch?  I haven't seen switches themselves for sale for this model car.  The Master Parts List has a drawing with the components.  You might have to make new contacts for the switch if it is not conducting electricity when needed.  It's pretty straightforward.  Let me know what you think, and hopefully others will weigh in; I need to rebuild the switch in my '40 Cadillac as well.

On the floor mats, I have only seen brown, but the sales data book for that year emphasizes the availability of customization.  If someone wanted a black mat, and one was available, it is certainly something Cadillac would have done. 

Ed Buliavac

Ed,

Re the turn signal switch, I have the leaver, the nut, the tin switch case, and the bakelite base with terminals (still attached to the wire harness). Someone pried the bakelite terminal base from the tin switch case and lost the internal switch components. I'll have to get a copy of the Master Parts list. Have a machine shop with an ex Roush engineer at my disposal so maybe we can make the components if I have a guide.

[ebuliavac]

The Master Chassis Parts List has a drawing on p. 495 showing Group Number 14.2115, Part n. 1437244 for Switch, Directional Signal.  It appears as a little round switch that sits in the housing just below the lever.  Fortunately, we're talking about something really simple.  Your machine shop can probably help you, and perhaps an electrical supply dealer has a switch small enough that can be actuated by the lever.  I was thinking about aftermarket levers and switches, and that maybe you could use the guts of one.  allcads might have something.   Let me know how it goes.  I'm getting into the wiring for mine as well.  I should have all the parts, but as to whether they work, I need to find out.  Good luck, Ed

[D Brooks]

Decided to do a little work on the original rear floor mat. I now see a mold number and a brand - "Baldwin" A quick google search and I come up with Baldwin Rubber Company of Pontiac MI. Online there is a patent for a "Apparatus for manufacturing floor mats " and a 1939 lawsuit between BALDWIN RUBBER CO. v. PAINE & WILLIAMS CO.  "for royalties alleged to be due on the manufacture
of automobile rubber floor covering and methods of, and apparatus for, making such coverings".

Guess they are long gone.

[D Brooks]

The Master Chassis Parts List has a drawing on p. 495 showing Group Number 14.2115, Part n. 1437244 for Switch, Directional Signal.  It appears as a little round switch that sits in the housing just below the lever.  Fortunately, we're talking about something really simple.  Your machine shop can probably help you, and perhaps an electrical supply dealer has a switch small enough that can be actuated by the lever.  I was thinking about aftermarket levers and switches, and that maybe you could use the guts of one.  allcads might have something.   Let me know how it goes.  I'm getting into the wiring for mine as well.  I should have all the parts, but as to whether they work, I need to find out.  Good luck, Ed

Ed
Cannibalizing one of those old period aftermarket switches may be a good idea. I know this is a simple switch , non - self canceling, you manually switch it on and off. I'll do some experimenting and let you know what happens

D.B.

[D Brooks]

THE NEW BLACK FRONT MAT!

[ebuliavac]

Thanks, I look forward to hearing from you, and congrats on the mat.  It works for me.  Ed