1951 Series 62 engine swap.

[Caddy Wizard]

I would not recommend what you are about to do.  But if you must, here is how I'd do it if budget is not an issue:

1. E-Rod crate engine and transmission package, with electronic fuel injection and all wiring, from GM.  About 10K for the package.  But great reliability and fuel economy.  Runs super.  This is essentially the engine in the Chevy trucks and Suburbans.  Best engine package on the road, in my opinion.  As a bonus, it will not be polluting.

2.  Install a rear air conditioner that comes through the package shelf.  It won't cool you quite as fast as one that blows directly on your face, but it will do the job very well and will be unobtrusive.  I have installed an AC unit behind a 49 dash and it is very hard to do and I don't recommend it again.

3.  Not wild about the power disk brakes, but hey, your car.  I can't recommend any particular set up. 

4.  Skip the power steering and get the right tires!  Get skinny tread patch radials that look like bias ply tires.  Both Diamondback and Coker sell them.  Inflate them to 36psi.  The high inflation pressure and the skinny tread patch will make it seem like power steering (well, about 1/2 power, in my estimation).

5.  Stock rear end it super strong and changing it out will yield negligible improvements.  I would bet that you would not be able to tell the difference in performance at all.

6.  Stock suspension is good.  Use Bilstein shocks from Kanter and a fat sway bar (made by ADDCO, sold by Kanter and others).

7.  Adding seat belts is great.  If this is a sedan, you can remove the upholstery panel from the B-pillar and weld in an anchor point for a shoulder belt.  WESCO makes a good anchor.  That will give you 3-point seat belts.  Or, if you don't mind swapping seats, get seats from a car that has shoulder belts attached to the seat, rather than to the body.  But this is less than ideal aesthetically.


First picture is of the tires I am talking about.  Great improvement.  Second picture shows a 49 with AC and seats with shoulder belts (and covered in correct 49 fabric).

If you do decide to use the stock motor (my recommendation), you can install an AC compressor below the generator for a clean look and easy topside maintenance of valve covers, spark plugs, etc.  Last picture shows exactly that.

[polonus]

I would not recommend what you are about to do.  But if you must, here is how I'd do it if budget is not an issue:

Unfortunately budget is an issue.  I'll try to spend 10-15K.

1. E-Rod crate engine and transmission package, with electronic fuel injection and all wiring, from GM.  About 10K for the package.  But great reliability and fuel economy.  Runs super.  This is essentially the engine in the Chevy trucks and Suburbans.  Best engine package on the road, in my opinion.  As a bonus, it will not be polluting. 

Great idea, but too expensive.  I hope I'll find engine and transmission for about 5K.

2.  Install a rear air conditioner that comes through the package shelf.  It won't cool you quite as fast as one that blows directly on your face, but it will do the job very well and will be unobtrusive.  I have installed an AC unit behind a 49 dash and it is very hard to do and I don't recommend it again.

Mechanic, who will do that job ( http://tullockautomotive.com ) has some experience with Vintage Air. And good , efficient AC is critical for my wife. She will not go on a trip in a car with "won't cool you quite as fast as one that blows directly on your face". And "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy".  I think I have to spend 3K for AC.

3.  Not wild about the power disk brakes, but hey, your car.  I can't recommend any particular set up. 

Something has to be done with the brakes anyways. I can stay with drums, but I need servo and... (how I say that in English?) dual-circuit? If I blew breakline now i won't have any brakes. So if I have to redo brakes, why not go all the way? I think I need about 2K for brakes.

4.  Skip the power steering and get the right tires!  Get skinny tread patch radials that look like bias ply tires.  Both Diamondback and Coker sell them.  Inflate them to 36psi.  The high inflation pressure and the skinny tread patch will make it seem like power steering (well, about 1/2 power, in my estimation).

Power steering can be done cheap. Less then $500:  http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1201sr-electronic-power-steering/ 

5.  Stock rear end it super strong and changing it out will yield negligible improvements.  I would bet that you would not be able to tell the difference in performance at all.

6.  Stock suspension is good.  Use Bilstein shocks from Kanter and a fat sway bar (made by ADDCO, sold by Kanter and others).

Thx

7.  Adding seat belts is great.  If this is a sedan, you can remove the upholstery panel from the B-pillar and weld in an anchor point for a shoulder belt.  WESCO makes a good anchor.  That will give you 3-point seat belts.  Or, if you don't mind swapping seats, get seats from a car that has shoulder belts attached to the seat, rather than to the body.  But this is less than ideal aesthetically.

I don't want "modern seats". Those "couches" I have now are great. I think lap belts will suffice.

Thx for your advice and pictures. I'll talk with my mechanic after Christmas and then I'll know how much actually he thinks he has to charge for that job. He recently did engine swap in 61 Caddy and he also put a Corvette engine into a Mazda RX7. If I find used engine/transmission  somewhere I can trust, I can go with that, however that scares me a bit, because I could buy that way somebody's else problem.

[cadillac ken]

Hi Polonus:  First off as some have said "it's your car".  You are asking for advice and I am not one to argue your choices.  I have had many Cadillacs of the 50's.  Some original, some very modified-- as many here have.  So I'm in no particular "camp".

I have had a boat load of cars with the 331-365-390 engines.  They are terrific engines, but with that said, the 331's I have had gave me the same problems you have mentioned.  I have had terrific times with the 365's and 390's (the 390 being IMO the best of the series).  All ran great and I did not rebuild one of them.  I even put a 365 ci. in a '33 coupe hot rod (right out of a parts car with the transmission) and drove the hell out of it.  I mean burn outs, interstate drives of over 2 hours, and anywhere else I wanted to go.  Never any issues.  If it were my car I would try to find a nice 390 ci. that will bolt right in and just do the usual (timing chain, valve job and clean out the rocker arm shafts, electric fuel pump, and water pump).  Remember these are Cadillac engines not run of the mill fords or chevys.  They were usually well taken care of, maintained and were built to a better spec.

The only issue is the fuel economy with the Caddy motor.  There isn't any.  But with fuel under $3.00 a gallon now, maybe not such a big concern.  But as I'm sure you have found out, 13 to 15 mpg is all you get.  At least that's all I ever got and I actually did the math, not just guessing and wishful thinking.  With the A/C you can probably take 2 or 3 more mpg off of that.

For me I would not change to a small block chevy. The retrofit will drag on-- crossmember, exhaust, engine mounts, and all the little things you never count on (ask me how I know!)

The issues of the brakes, A/C, and front end are the ones (as you said) I would too concentrate on. Rebuild the front end and keep it greased- done.  The brakes need to be completely upgraded to a dual master cylinder and power.  As you said, I would go with the front discs and a dual power master cylinder (probably a frame mounted unit-- don't for get the proportioning valve and residual valve).  The rears at that point are only along for the ride and although it's a heavy car, it should stop just fine with the disc upgrade up front and no miles of steep grade mountain driving (resulting in rear brake fade). You can save money there.  I would do the rear axle bearings and seals.

A/C will be a challenge as some here have testified to.  The cabin is huge in that car and with 134a less efficient than the old R-12 I don't think a rear mounted evaporator is going to get that car cooled to a comfortable range.  I live in Florida, so trust me, we know about A/C efficiency.  We use A/C almost year long as here in December it is still in the 80's. The 134a systems need a larger condenser up front so make sure you get a doozy. I would try talk to Vintage Air.  Those guys have been at it a long time and usually have all the answers.  I bet they could set you up with a system that will cool that beast!

Most importantly enjoy the ride.  Drive your car and remember it is your car.  Build it for you, not the next guy.

[Caddy Wizard]

With budget being a concern, use the Cad 390, up to a 62 I think.  That will be the cheapest engine swap.  But I have never had any reliability issues with the 331 and have driven them for many, many thousands of miles.

[INTMD8]

I know some of you will be disappointed, but I decided to change everything in that car.

I want new engine and transmission, power disc brakes, power steering, seatbelts  and cool A/C.  I am planning to do this in January 2016 and all your suggestions how to go about it are welcomed. 

Any suggestions about transmission, rear end ratio, etc are needed. I am not going to make a hot rod from that car, I just want dependable daily transportation. I want to go in this car for a trip around the USA. I want a car which would cruise easily on the interstate at 70-80 mph.

Are there any issues with the suspension/wheel hubs and such? Can I keep the original ones? Car seems to be very tight, no strange noises from the wheels, but it is 65 years old and I don't want to loose my wheel driving 80 mph.

Thats a -LOT- to do on 10-15k, especially if you aren't doing the labor. Triple that is the minimum I would expect.  As for brakes and rear end you may be able to get something going on the original chassis but not sure if it and the original rear suspension is up to task for the extra power. Now you look for disc brakes that are actually bigger and better than the original drums and they really don't fit under the stock wheels.  (and if you get all that figured out you are still on very old suspension/steering geometry).

I just went with a new chassis altogether on my Brougham as I wanted it to match the capabilities of the drivetrain.

That being said, I also have the original drivetrain in my 59 and have zero complaints. The car drives great. Yes only 13mpg but wouldn't expect it to be much better.

[Joe V]

The cheapest and longest path to achieving your requirement for a dependable daily driver is to maximize the use and value of what you already have and do as much of the general mechanic work yourself.  The most expensive and shortest path to achieve your requirement is to replace everything and have all the work done by professionals.  The later is nowhere near a $10-$15K path since that amount wont even cover the labor cost for reputable mechanics needed for your to-do-list.  Basically incompatible requirements.

Sounds like the starting point is talking to your wife about approving more money.  Or, sell that car, add the $15K to the amount received, and buy a similar car that someone has already sunk more time and money into that will never be earned back.

[Jay Friedman]

All I can say is that I drive my totally stock '49 (exact same motor as '51) regularly and have been on approximately 20 long trips with it up to 1,200 miles from home one way in the 31 years I've owned it.  Only broke down once on a trip when a generator armature failed, but a modern alternator can also fail.  As mentioned by other posters the motor and the rest of the stock drive train is "bullet-proof" since it is Cadillac-built.  It's a great road car since it accelerates powerfully, will easily cruise at modern interstate speeds, and steers and stops perfectly with no power steering and drum brakes.  The only thing it lacks is air conditioning, which I could fix by converting to 12 volts and buying a Vintage Air unit for far less cost than $10-15K.  To keep it happy I only use ethanol-free gasoline (fortunately available in my area).  The only concession to modern times I've made is to install a modern AM-FM radio and tape deck under the dash. 

[polonus]

...The most expensive and shortest path to achieve your requirement is to replace everything and have all the work done by professionals.  The later is nowhere near a $10-$15K path since that amount wont even cover the labor cost for reputable mechanics needed for your to-do-list.  Basically incompatible requirements.

OK, OK! You convinced me. Plans changed. Cadillac will stay as is for now. I already spent my "new engine money" on new youngtimer:

[jyinger]

"I have had 15 Cadillacs between 1949 and 1956 and driven them as daily drivers about half the days over the last 25 years.  I can say with certainty that these Cadillac engines produce lots of power and are EXTREMELY reliable.  The transmissions, once redone, are smooth and bullet-proof.  There is no need to put in something else for reliability or power."  Art Gardner

I agree with Art.  I had 12 1949-1951 Cadillacs in a previous life, sadly I sold them all for a song.  Today I have seven:
49 Fleetwood (2)
49 CDV (2)
49 Convertible
52 Fleetwood
58 Eldorado Brougham.

I have had the original engines professionally rebuilt four of these cars, and three of the hydramatics rebuilt.  All with great results.  I have made a few deviations from original:  most of these cars now have front disc brakes, power steering from 1952 or 1953 Cadillacs, Pertronix ignition, and 12-volt electrical systems.  On two of them I converted from the two-barrel Carter carburetor to a 4 barrel Carter WCFB.  Two have modern A/C, and most of them have a modern sound system discretely housed in a Kleenex box case under the dash.

They have plenty of power for normal driving, they are very reliable, and a joy to drive. 

Piotr, you have probably made all of the arrangements for your engine swap, and I wish you luck.  But if you haven't, don't give up on that magnificent 331 original.

Jon Yinger   CLC#26643

[T.S.Kennedy]

With a 51, I would try to stay OEM - rebuild and whatnot, but if you want a daily driver, here is something to consider:
1) low mile or rebuild LS SBC engine (5.3) complete dropout. Needs to have the TCM,PCM, wire harness, accelerator pedal (if drive-by-wire). Probably looking at $900 to $4K depending on how you buy. You can find low mile engines with transmission together for this price.
2) 5.3 is a great, flexible engine. Most come with a 4l60e transmission (automatic).
3) Not sure about your rear diff, axles, and suspension. You would retain the donor motor's steering and have to upgrade your steering knuckle - not too hard.
4) Hard to say. Are you paying someone else to do the work, or are you doing it?
5) Sort of. I don't know what the chassis and front crossmember is like on a 51. The AC compressor on these LS motors sits low, passenger side. If it doesn't fit with the chassis and motor brackets, then you can get an aftermarket compressor kit to move it to upper engine passenger side. All this could range from $500 to $1500 depending on what you need.
6) If your 51's engine and transmission are in running shape (also rebuildable and OEM), then you could get something for them, for sure. Is it stock? What's the condition and milage?   

[Brad Hemingson CLC #18437]

Get crate Chevy small block. Run FAST EFI and go with Vintage Air. You can get a variety of kits to put front discs on the car. Upgrade to a modern master cylinder whilst you are it. below is a link to the CaddyDaddy brake kits and the EFI

http://www.caddydaddy.com/shop-parts/brake-items/disc-brake-conversion-kits.html

http://www.fuelairspark.com/