I want to put A/C in my 1961 Convertible

[Jack Miller CLC# 24441]

Hi,

I want to ad A/C to my 1961 Cadillac convertible. Any thoughts on what I should buy?
Thanks
Jack

[chrisntam]

I assume you want a factory set up?  Or aftermarket?

If factory, others have asked that question about other cars of similar vintage and most here said just buy another car w/ the a/c already installed.  Sounded like too much of a project to undertake.

If I was going to do it, I'd buy a parts car that had a/c on it to get all the parts.

It would be much easier to hang an aftermarket unit on it though, but folk here won't hear of that.

[chrisntam]

This thread may also shed some light on the challenges.

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=138698.0

[Scot Minesinger]

Chris is 100% correct:

It is a huge undertaking to do it right, such as return fuel line, fan shroud, not to mention dash work and etc. besides just the compressor.  The after markets are what you would use (those under dash units) if you trying to lower the value of the car.

Best to buy a 61 already equipped with ac.  Next best is to buy a 61 parts car and use that to install on your 61.  I have a 1970 convertible with ac and I use it almost only for exercise (disuse kills them), it is rarely used unless I get caught in a summer afternoon unexpected thunderstorm.

This would be a nice winter project.  ac done factory would likely increase value of car, but not as much as it costs to install it.  I would do this myself.

[jwjohnson86]

Someone removed the factory A/C from my car when the engine was rebuilt, probably figured they didn't need it as R12 was gone or whatever, they left behind the condenser, receiver/dryer and the firewall servos, I have no compressor or lines.  Given living in a cool climate and that almost all of my in season driving is done with the top and/or windows down, due to the excessive cost vs. return in enjoyment I decided to forego chasing down the missing parts of my system and attempting to rebuild it after reading the many forum posts on the topic. 

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Jason,
If your '70 has the evaporator/heater/fan box, the ducts and vents inside and the control heads, there is a lot less to replace than you might think.  A compressor (with any brackets that may have been removed) refrigerant lines, TX Valve and POA should cost you less than $1000.00.  Given Lansing is in a "cooler" section of the country, but yours is not an insurmountable task.
Greg Surfas

[Jack Miller CLC# 24441]

My 61 has 43,000 original miles on it. I do not think I will find anything like it. No rust or rot, leather like new, new top. Nice paint.
It already has only 2 ducts on dash sides that I got from a DeVille. I am moving to Florida and A/C is a must.
Has anyone here used Vintage Air co? I see their kits in the $1,400.00 range.
Thanks
Jack
1961 Cadillac Convertible

[76eldo]

I have all of the parts needed to do a 1960.
I don't know if the parts will work on a 61.

If not worried about authenticity I'd go with the modern set up.

Do some googling and look at the various kits out there.

Brian

[Scot Minesinger]

A 1961 Cadillac convertible with 41k original miles in FL that is like new-what a great car!  Vintage Air with an under dash unit will wreck that car, and I would not do it.  If the Cadillac had 141k miles and was in fair condition then maybe Vintage air is an option.  This would be a difficult car to buy another with ac for sure, so bite the bullet and buy a 61 Cadillac parts car with factory ac, and switch the systems so the parts car would be a non ac car and sell the parts car; probably parts car would be worth same when you are done.  Do this work yourself is best way.  Take one thing at a tim, I would probably do fuel pump, fuel lines, tank, and sender first.

Jason,

Your 1970 Cadillac would be a day's work if the and under $1,000 to make it into an ac car again, sounds like compressor and refrigeration lines plus flush of existing system and check out of controls would bring it back to life.  Greg is right this would not be difficult compared to equipping a non-ac 1970 Cadillac to ac (these are around from time to time).  You or the next owner may do it.  I always want me stuff working so even though as you write it is not necessary even in VA, still want it working.

[Dan LeBlanc]

I have to strongly disagree with the comments concerning the diminished value of the car with a Vintage Air under dash unit.

It is REMOVABLE!  Could easily be put back to stock in a morning's worth of work if someone is preparing the car for resale and is concerned with the value.  The key here is to install it in a way that does not alter the car.  You can use existing holes in the radiator support to mount the condenser.  Use a spare AC blocking plate to drill holes in to pass the refrigerant lines through into the cabin.  Engine brackets can be unbolted.  Electrical can be tapped off the accessory feed in the fuse box - usually used when rear defogger is added.  There's spade terminal on the side of the fuse box that power can be taken from.

It's a convenient reversible option.  I've actually thought about doing this to my 23,000mi 61 Fleetwood and still have not taken the option off the table. If I do it, this is exactly the route I would take.

[Scot Minesinger]

Dan,

On this we will agree to disagree.  When I see an under dash ac unit installed on a car, I immediately think of it a negative way because the proper method is factory (modification on a budget, corners cut, and etc.).  It is a major eye sore especially on a top down convertible - half the point of owning a 1961 Cadillac is how cool it looks.  There will likely be drill holes and some evidence that the car was molested after it is removed.  If a shop did this then forget it, disaster will result.

This type of mod would be more appropriate on a 1962 Chevy Nova wagon, it is not commensurate with a Cadillac.

Why not do it right and install as per factory?  A 1961 low mileage convertible is deserving of a proper modification to resemble factory.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

With all due respects guys, Jack just asked a simple question about adding AC to his 61.  He did not say he was trying to maintain anything like perfection. He is probably wise enough to know there is no perfection this side of the grave.  He is moving to Florida and wants AC.
Believe it or not there are a few of us out here that just want to enjoy our cars.  They are not works of art, (for us) not investments for our kid's college fund, pampered trailer or garage queens, but year round personal transportation of the "Cadillac" class.  These cars were made to be driven all year across the highways of this country and they do an excellent job of it. 
Now back to the subject of Jack's question.
Yes, Vintage Aire has great add on kits that are designed for just about any car and work well. 
Greg Surfas

[Dan LeBlanc]

I added a period correct under dash to a 1962 Coupe I had. system was dated 1963 and the brackets were made for the 390 along with a tensioner pulley that bolted to the thermostat housing.  Was complete with York compressor, did not use three groove pulleys, and stock fan with no shroud. Gave me zero overheating issues. Charged it with Freeze 12 and the only complaint was that it was too cold (for the passengers, just right for me).  On humid days, stopped at a light, I would get condensation on the outside of the windows. I was able to use existing holes in the dash to mount the evaporator, existing holes in the radiator support for the condenser,  and was able to tie off the lines to the inner fenders using the wiring support brackets. I drilled holes for the refrigerant lines in a spare ac firewall block off plate. I routed the lines up and over the radiator support and used hose brackets in existing holes to hold them down.

The only holes I had to drill were in the transmission tunnel for the drains. When removed,  you could fluff the carpet and hide them.

I did all the work myself in less than a day. Absolutely nothing was hacked. I did convert to an alternator though. Kept the generator and regulator to revert back if needed.

The only issue I can see with Jack's installation is fabricaring compressor mounting brackets. There is nothing available for the 331/365/390. You could use a set of 62 brackets with an A6 compressor though to solve that issue. I believe Vintage Air can build the system around your compressor choice. The A6 would also look somewhat stock.

My only regret was letting the system go with the car and not keeping it for future use. The new owner would've never known it was there when I sold the car.

If you need further application specific installation advice, Jack, feel free to PM me as I'm intimately familiar in doing this on 61/62 cars.

[Dan LeBlanc]

As a footnote,  if I had the system today,  it would be in my 61 already and it would be at the next GN as display only because I know it would knock me out of competition. Quite frankly I've had enough of competing and want to drive my car and enjoy doing so in comfort much like you do.

[Scot Minesinger]

Greg,

With all due respects everyone just answered the question that concluded with "thoughts".  The Vintage Air may do a good job, but IMO it would be a negative.  My cars have never ridden on a trailer.  Every day it is not raining, the destination is tolerant of large old cars, the traffic is not too bad, and there is no salt on the road I drive my old Cadillacs.  They are way nicer than a modern car.  Unfortunately, those restrictions allow only about 4k mile a year.  My red Caddy just turned over 128k miles (bought it ten years ago with 90k).  An under 50k miles 61 Cadillac convertible is right up there to me as an extremely special car and would hate to see it ruined with an add on under dash unit. 

When I wrote the first post, it was a given that others would disagree.  That is kind of what makes the forum interesting.   It is all a matter of opinion.  Several of my friends are in the market for a #1 or #2 1959-1970 Cadillac convertible, and they would not consider one that had Vintage air added.  They are willing to shell out past 40k, so just don't want our friend to risk diminished value of his hobby car.  If someone added high quality Eldorado moldings skillfully to a 61 convertible, it would not lower the value to me, while others would strongly disagree.  It is all a matter of opinion, however in this case Vintage Air is all function over form. 

Given the choice, most anyone would rather have factory ac over Vintage Air, guess it is just a matter of money and importance.  I'm a fan of modified cars, but not when a really nice car is modified for budget reasons that sacrifice the nice look of a Cadillac.

It is understood we are not in the hobby to make money, not be under water on our cars and other financial considerations, but because we enjoy the Cadillacs.  I am enjoying the hell out mine right now, because summer is finally here!

[Ed Eckhart #12747]

I had the Vintage Air type A/C installed on my 57 convertible, and although it works great I would not do it again if I had it to do over. At the time I had mine installed, there was not a kit for the 57, so the shop had to fabricate a bracket and find some parts. I had a heck of a time finding a 4-groove crankshaft pulley.

The main reason I would not do it again is the fact that I never use it...even in the heat of Texas. I only drive with the top down, and the Vintage air unit interferes with passenger leg room. The cost is also considerably more than the $1400 for the kits which are available for higher production cars.

Just my two cents on the issue.

Ed E

[Rob Troxel]

My 61 has 43,000 original miles on it. I do not think I will find anything like it. No rust or rot, leather like new, new top. Nice paint.
It already has only 2 ducts on dash sides that I got from a DeVille. I am moving to Florida and A/C is a must.
Has anyone here used Vintage Air co? I see their kits in the $1,400.00 range.
Thanks
Jack
1961 Cadillac Convertible

Vitage
Air system is one of the best!  They will work with you to use your original controls!

[Jack Miller CLC# 24441]

thanks all for your sincere comments!
I will look and ponder on these thoughts.
I am not rushing into it but I am making a plan.
Thanks
Jack

[Scot Minesinger]

The 61 Cadillac with no a/c does not have original controls for a/c (they are ventilation controls).  An a/c system control from a 61 Caddy with a/c would be required.  It used cables.  In 1964 with climate control, a common duct system for a/c and heat was employed.  Before that the ducts/controls and fans were independent is my understanding.  Careful planning will be so worth it - good way to proceed.

[Dan LeBlanc]

1961 is two independent systems sharing one fan.