When did Cad Motor Div. give up, "Standard of the World" ?

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Dont forget about credit. Cadillac has GM financing....... same used for a Chevy. If you can drive away with a Cadillac after having your Hyundai repod, it isn't all that special, is it?
Jeff

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

The fact remains that the cost per mile to drive a brand new Cadillac is not exactly an inexpensive proposition - no matter how you slice and dice the payments whether leased or purchased.

Adjusted for inflation, it's every bit as expensive today as it was then - as the price of new automobiles generally outpaced the rate of inflation (without getting into issues of comparable accessories and so forth). 

[Big Apple Caddy]

Adjusted for inflation, it's every bit as expensive today as it was then - as the price of new automobiles generally outpaced the rate of inflation (without getting into issues of comparable accessories and so forth).

The base price of a 1996 Cadillac DeVille, the least expensive Cadillac for that year, was $35,995 which when adjusting for inflation is over $55,000 in current dollars.  The closest equivalent today is the XTS which has a base price around $10,000 less at $45,295 and, of course, there are even cheaper Cadillacs than the XTS.   On top of that, financing terms and leasing terms are more favorable (allowing for lower payments) today than in 1996 or perhaps any time in history.

I've seen $0 down (just first payment due at signing plus tax, fees) leases on new 2016 Cadillacs for under $350/month for 36 months; there may be even better deals out there.  Perhaps you could share examples, besides recent years, where one could get into a new Cadillac for less (inflation adjusted) with comparable terms?   Were new Cadillacs leasing with $0 down for under $228/month in 1996?  Under $159/month in 1986?   Under $82/month in 1976?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

The base price of a 1996 Cadillac DeVille, the least expensive Cadillac for that year, was $35,995 which when adjusting for inflation is over $55,000 in current dollars.  The closest equivalent today is the XTS which has a base price around $10,000 less at $45,295 and, of course, there are even cheaper Cadillacs than the XTS.   On top of that, financing terms and leasing terms are more favorable (allowing for lower payments) today than in 1996 or perhaps any time in history.

I've seen $0 down (just first payment due at signing plus tax, fees) leases on new 2016 Cadillacs for under $350/month for 36 months; there may be even better deals out there.  Perhaps you could share examples, besides recent years, where one could get into a new Cadillac for less (inflation adjusted) with comparable terms?   Were new Cadillacs leasing with $0 down for under $228/month in 1996?  Under $159/month in 1986?   Under $82/month in 1976?

Interest rates today are very different than prevailing interest rates in 1996 which means GMAC's required rate of return today is commensurate, thus reflected in payment amount.  Unless you have a near perfect credit rating, you can pretty much kiss goodbye any hopes of $350 with $0 down. Don't scratch it, dent it or put "excessive mileage" on or you'll get hit with other charges when you turn it back in.  There's a whole lot more in the fine print they don't tell you in advertising blurbs.

Don't even bother going into the 1980s when interest rates were at, or near-record levels. Also worth mentioning is the effect of high interest rates on an organization the size of GM & its suppliers is huge for it has direct effect on the cost of capital which must be calculated into the cost of the product just like any other business expense. 

Vastly different interest rates and economic conditions equates to apples and oranges for the purposes of making relative comparisons of this kind.

Supposed "$0 down and $350/mo" leases aside, one would be hard pressed to find many new Cadillacs (or other vehicles costing as much) in the driveways of households with average income. 

[Maynard Krebs]

No front drive for me.

Me, neither.   FWD means more expensive maintenance.

[Maynard Krebs]

I suppose that, from a historical perspective, when did Cadillac Motor Division BEGIN using the phrase, "Standard of the World"?   I had the impression, perhaps erroneous, that said phrase was used for a long time... far longer than the ones since said 'classical' advertising phrase.

I say that all the folks in charge of Cadillac advertising should be required to read the 1935 classic, "The Penalty of Leadership", at least every three months!   Now THAT was superior advertising, as timeless as "Somewhere West of Laramie".

I also say that Cad Mot. Div. should have stayed with, "Standard of the World", into perpetuity----just for the sheer chutzpah of it!   

[Maynard Krebs]

Is there anyone else on this forum.. that is really tired of Cadillac's modern penchant for lazy, poorly-chosen, hard-to-remember model names (only three letters)?   

I'm sure that most of us can remember model names like "Calais", for example.   Where is imagination these days?   

Cadillac Motor Division is "missing the boat" on this.   

[64\/54Cadillacking]

Is there anyone else on this forum.. that is really tired of Cadillac's modern penchant for lazy, poorly-chosen, hard-to-remember model names (only three letters)?   

I'm sure that most of us can remember model names like "Calais", for example.   Where is imagination these days?   

Cadillac Motor Division is "missing the boat" on this.

This has been an ongoing issues for at least a good 10 -15 years now. No imagination, or creativity with the names that will stick in your mind after you're done test driving a Cad from a dealership. "What was the name of that Cadillac we just drove Barbara"? " Oh I don't know honey, maybe it was the CZ or CTZ, or STWXYZ? I mean it's laughable at times and really ridiculous when you really think about it.

It might take some more time for names to make a comeback. The Germans screwed it all up for them. Cadillac, just like Lincoln (Even worse) thought they could lure BMW drivers to their brands if only they played along with calling their cars by the alphabet.

[Scot Minesinger]

By successful I do not mean sales or profit perspective, although no company can survive without adequate profit.

Maybe those mid and late 1980's Cadillac FWD cars earned Cadillac profit, but they are not my definition of successful.  My definition of successful is RWD, V-8, and I would want to drive it both new and years later.  Examples: 1995 Fleetwood RWD-successful, and 2014 XTS V-6 not successful.  FWD does not drive as nice as RWD.  FWD requires more frequent brake, suspension, steering and alignment work than a RWD.  The need for maintenance in a FWD also detracts from driving experience.  Where I live my RWD vehicles get an alignment every time the tires are replaced, say every 50-70k miles, whereas my neighbors have their FWD POS aligned twice a year. 

Understand Cadillac offers FWD due to demand, but an optional RWD bias all wheel drive vehicle satisfies this requirement.

All of the successful luxury brands such as MB, Lexus, Jag, BMW, Audi, and etc. utilize RWD or All wheel drive with RWD bias.  In order for Cadillac to return to "Standard of the World" status, they need to continue in the direction they are aimed at now and use the RWD platforms with V-8 offerings (or maybe a V-12 again), and a 4 or 5 seat convertible.  Cars made now that will be desirable many years later will make them successful models.

[Big Apple Caddy]

Interest rates today are very different than prevailing interest rates in 1996 which means GMAC's required rate of return today is commensurate, thus reflected in payment amount.  Unless you have a near perfect credit rating, you can pretty much kiss goodbye any hopes of $350 with $0 down. Don't scratch it, dent it or put "excessive mileage" on or you'll get hit with other charges when you turn it back in.  There's a whole lot more in the fine print they don't tell you in advertising blurbs.

Of course leases have mileage limits but they're not typically as strict on dings and scratches as you seem to think.  Leasing has gotten and remains popular but the point was and still is that you can get into a new Cadillac today for much less than times past thanks to lower pricing and/or lease deals and/or long-term financing terms and/or easy credit or a combination of.  All of this can make a new Cadillac much more easily attainable and therefore less special.

[Big Apple Caddy]

Is there anyone else on this forum.. that is really tired of Cadillac's modern penchant for lazy, poorly-chosen, hard-to-remember model names (only three letters)?   

I'm sure that most of us can remember model names like "Calais", for example.   Where is imagination these days?   

Cadillac Motor Division is "missing the boat" on this.

While I don't think the choice of names is a matter of being lazy, being old school I do prefer names like Seville, Fleetwood, etc. over CT4, CT6, XT4, XT6, etc.  The automotive market has become more global and using alphanumeric model names for luxury brand cars is largely the norm and expected/desirable throughout the world.   Acura, Audi, BMW, Genesis, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, and Volvo all use alphanumeric model names for most if not all of their vehicles.

[Big Apple Caddy]

Cars made now that will be desirable many years later will make them successful models.

Sure, rear-wheel drive makes a car desirable.  I mean who doesn't long for cars like the Chevrolet Vega, Chevrolet Chevette, Ford Pinto, AMC Gremlin and the like, all of which were RWD.   

[dochawk]

  The automotive market has become more global and using alphanumeric model names for luxury brand cars is largely the norm and expected/desirable throughout the world.   

Hmm.

We could go with an unpronounceable symbol, and ask to be referred to as "the luxury vehicle".  The press could call it, "The automobile formerly known as fleetwood" . . .

[Maynard Krebs]

While I don't think the choice of names is a matter of being lazy, being old school I do prefer names like Seville, Fleetwood, etc. over CT4, CT6, XT4, XT6, etc.  The automotive market has become more global and using alphanumeric model names for luxury brand cars is largely the norm and expected/desirable throughout the world.   Acura, Audi, BMW, Genesis, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, and Volvo all use alphanumeric model names for most if not all of their vehicles.

So, why should Cadillac be a 'follower' instead of a 'leader'?   I think that all of us should re-read the great 1935 ad, "The Penalty of Leadership".   I bet that the late Maurice Hendry would agree with me on this.   Did you ever read his comparison of a '34 Pierce-Arrow with a '64 Coupe deVille?   

"Leadership":  let's think about that.   The world once did follow the great American autos, like Cad, P-A, Packard, etc.  So why not "lead" the world again?   Why be simply a follower?

Admittedly, this would be a massive undertaking.   But, first, the top management of GM need to re-think the whole firm.   Instead of having every 'make' within GM offer a model for everyone, the corporate thinking should be changed... to offering a make with only one model for a given type of customer.  Cadillac should be the unquestioned luxury car within GM:  none other.   Another make should be the low-price, transportation value.   A third should be the 'sporty' car.  Yes, options could alter this a little.... but each make should offer ONE model. Then, GM would be no longer competing within itself, but against sales possibly lost to the competition. Kapiche?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Of course leases have mileage limits but they're not typically as strict on dings and scratches as you seem to think.  Leasing has gotten and remains popular but the point was and still is that you can get into a new Cadillac today for much less than times past thanks to lower pricing and/or lease deals and/or long-term financing terms and/or easy credit or a combination of.  All of this can make a new Cadillac much more easily attainable and therefore less special.

When interest rates are low, everything is more attainable.

Attainable or not, few new Cadillac cars are owned by average income earners and that's a fact. It is also a fact that the average age of a vehicle on the road in the US is 11.4 years. 

... the great 1935 ad, "The Penalty of Leadership"... 

Actually that ad appeared in 1915 just after Cadillac introduced the V-8. 

[Scot Minesinger]

Big Apple Caddy,

You took my quote out of context, clearly V-8 was attached.  And the POS models you mentioned that were RWD would have been even worse if they were FWD.  If FWD was the way to go in a Luxury brand Cadillac would not be in a minority in offering it. 

[Big Apple Caddy]

When interest rates are low, everything is more attainable.

Not necessarily but it's also more than just about interest rates.  It's about pricing and/or it’s about better lease deals thanks to better residuals and how Cadillac and others are incentivizing and subsidizing leasing and/or it’s about longer and longer term financing and/or it’s about easy credit or some combination of all of this.

Attainable or not, few new Cadillac cars are owned by average income earners and that's a fact.

Many people that would've never been able to get into a new Cadillac (or Mercedes or......) in times past are doing so today thanks to one or more of the above.   Cadillac is supposed to be a luxury car but it's not the luxury it used to be again because of one or more of the above.

It is also a fact that the average age of a vehicle on the road in the US is 11.4 years. 

Sure, cars on average are lasting longer and longer and the average age of cars on the road has been going up for decades and decades and decades.  Those 11.4 year old cars may be on their second, third or fourth owner.  So?

[Big Apple Caddy]

You took my quote out of context, clearly V-8 was attached.  And the POS models you mentioned that were RWD would have been even worse if they were FWD.  If FWD was the way to go in a Luxury brand Cadillac would not be in a minority in offering it.

You mentioned the CT6 as being one of Cadillac's recent successes yet it's not offered with a V8 (yet).  If success means RWD and V8, why do you consider the CT6 already a success?  You also called the ATS and CTS recent Cadillac successes yet there sales have been in decline for years.

[Scot Minesinger]

Big Apple Caddy,

You asked for my definition of success and it is not profit or sales volume related (think Eldorado Brougham 1957-60, 1953 Eldorado, 1956-57 Continental Mark, 1961-67 Continental 4dr convertible - all alleged low volume great cars that were not profitable).  My definition of success is a car I would want to drive when new and when older.  Understand that I am not a reflection of the market for Cadillac.  However, I think the other Luxury brands are building cars that I would consider a success.  There was an announcement that Cadillac is building a CT-6 w/V-8.  if so great, should be a success, if not will never buy one.  You can buy a couple Dodge models RWD with a nice V-8 for a reasonable price - so don't think I am asking too much of Cadillac.  The standard of the world should best most other American makes. 

BTW The current CTS is such a great looking car (not the V), that it is about the only car ever (to me)worth driving with a V-6.  In styling this is a strong contender for standard of the world.

[64\/54Cadillacking]

I really don't know why Cadillac abandoned RWD V-8  full size luxury for so long, or even bothered making small tiny FWD's (ATS) at all and expect the buying public to fall for it. FWD are fine cars to drive for the everyday commuter, but they do tarnish the image of a luxury car especially of a brand like Cadillac that has such a great history of building such amazing cars over the years.

I mean how damn hard is it to build a RWD car anyway? You'd think the cost would be cheaper for Cadillac to go the RWD route, as less parts are used compared to a FWD setup where everything is crammed right in front of you. Plus the durability of a a big V8 and heavy duty rear axle pushing a car around would make for a long lasting reliable Cadillac to boot.