Grand National - less Cadillacs at show field - a developing trend?

[David King (kz78hy)]

OK Eric, what class does my 1970 fleetwood painted Behr Turquoise with worm clamps, radial tires,a Duralast battery and half of its parts from Autozone compete fairly in? Ergo against similar cars?

\m/
Laurie?

Touring class.

David

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Re: Being "found" during judging. If you have a cell, simply put that # on your entry form and you (should) be called when it is your turn to be judged. If not, find the Team Captain for your class before you leave the breakfast room and explain your circumstance. He/she should be able to make a note of where you expect to be while you are judging. Leave as little to chance as possible. Thanks for thinking about judging. It is appreciated.

[cadillacmike68]

Re: Being "found" during judging. If you have a cell, simply put that # on your entry form and you (should) be called when it is your turn to be judged. If not, find the Team Captain for your class before you leave the breakfast room and explain your circumstance. He/she should be able to make a note of where you expect to be while you are judging. Leave as little to chance as possible. Thanks for thinking about judging. It is appreciated.

I had my number on the note. The 1996 team sent someone 3 rows over to get me, but the 1968 team couldn't be bothered when I was only 4 or 5 cars down in the same row.

[johnregrus]

David King,

I felt the same way you did about the talking going on by the crowd at the welcome reception. It was rude to the guest speaker.

Part of the problem was that the reception was kind of too loose and the master of ceremony couldn't seem to get the crowds attention.

Then there was also too much time between the reception part and the auction. Many people just wandered off; including myself.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

You are lucky I wasn't there, or I would have called the crowd to order and let the man speak.

Bruce.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Touring class.

David

Thank you, several have told me that and I read it in the judging manual.

My car is a Saturday night drive-in, local show/event cruiser. Just like those owned by the majority of the membership. Going by the latest judging criteria my pride and joy is down 86 points just parked in its lair and I'm not a judge. I'm sure a real judge would find another 50 points at least in despicable malady's.

It will be repainted its proper color and have the roof properly replaced. That $5-8K gets me back about 8 points!!  YES!

Like I said, in which class do the real cruisers (the majority) compete in? The cars that are loved and DRIVEN.
Sometimes in the rain, eegads!

You know, a *CRUISER* class, where you'd actually get points for what isn't wrong? Where the team of judges could add to their notes simply ranking the car on a scale of 1-10 on its visual appeal and general over all look for the year and mileage? A cruiser...

?

\m/
Laurie

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

I was at the GN in TX, during the welcome reception Lyndon Lie, Chief Engineer for the CT6, came and gave a quick talk to the gathering.  For the 1st 3 or 4 minutes, the crowd would not shut up.  I felt bad for him, and not just because I am part of his team, it was just rude treatment to any guest speaker.  Unknown to the crowd, he had to make a special trip to do this as he was just back from China and really had to make a effort to represent Cadillac that day.  For those that hung with us afterwords, you were treated to a really in depth presentation of my 2018 Super Cruise CT6 which I borrowed from GM's captured test fleet for the the drive to TX and back.  Lyndon was very gracious regarding the welcome reception, but he is a class guy.

We need to do better.

David King

I'm mortified.... Shameful!!! 
If I was there I would have bellowed "ATTENTION ON DECK" - always shush's a crowd. Where's Mike Santos?

\m/
Laurie

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Thank you, several have told me that and I read it in the judging manual.

My car is a Saturday night drive-in, local show/event cruiser. Just like those owned by the majority of the membership. Going by the latest judging criteria my pride and joy is down 86 points just parked in its lair and I'm not a judge. I'm sure a real judge would find another 50 points at least in despicable malady's.

It will be repainted its proper color and have the roof properly replaced. That $5-8K gets me back about 8 points!!  YES!

Like I said, in which class do the real cruisers (the majority) compete in? The cars that are loved and DRIVEN.
Sometimes in the rain, eegads!

You know, a *CRUISER* class, where you'd actually get points for what isn't wrong? Where the team of judges could add to their notes simply ranking the car on a scale of 1-10 on its visual appeal and general over all look for the year and mileage? A cruiser...

?

\m/
Laurie

Laurie... with all due respect, you have no idea what the judging team's assessments will be or how many points the car will ultimately earn whether in Touring Class, or any other for that matter.

Would it be unreasonable to suggest waiting until you've actually had the experience of participating in at least one CLC GN - before preemptively worrying how many deductions your car will, or will not receive?

You keep on expounding on things the CLC should be doing differently. What is this based on? How many CLC events have you participated in? Have you ever been on a judging team or taken a judging seminar? Until you've developed a broad range of experiences over a period of years - only after then will you be much better position to make meaningful judgements/commentary/critique of CLC policies, practices, guidelines and so forth. And it cannot be gotten overnight by simply reading a few pieces of Club literature or judging manuals.

It never ceases to amaze me how often people brag about how unconcerned they are about taking home "$5 awards" yet the many of same people are the most vocal in their perceptions about how "unfair" or "stringent" CLC judging standards are.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Laurie... with all due respect, you have no idea what the judging team's assessments will be or how many points the car will ultimately earn whether in Touring Class, or any other for that matter.

Would it be unreasonable to suggest waiting until you've actually had the experience of participating in at least one CLC GN - before preemptively worrying how many deductions your car will, or will not receive?

You keep on expounding on things the CLC should be doing differently. What is this based on? How many CLC events have you participated in? Have you ever been on a judging team or taken a judging seminar? Until you've developed a broad range of experiences over a period of years - only after then will you be much better position to make meaningful judgements/commentary/critique of CLC policies, practices, guidelines and so forth. And it cannot be gotten overnight by simply reading a few pieces of Club literature or judging manuals.

It never ceases to amaze me how often people brag about how unconcerned they are about taking home "$5 awards" yet the many of same people are the most vocal in their perceptions about how "unfair" or "stringent" CLC judging standards are.

Fair enough Eric.
So you're saying the judge's manual, that plainly states how many points are deducted for each infraction, are objective and not subjective? That's not only confusing, its unfair to those trying to restore to high level and compete fairly.

The only thing I expound on is increasing membership. Period. And I base it on methods that have been proven to work in other organizations. And I've gone into that in excruciating detail on this thread. You want to hate me for wanting to see my new club expand its membership, go ahead.

A lot of people made the Space Shuttle fly without ever having flown it themselves. Mjussayin'....

\m/
Laurie

[Lexi]

Yep, it is not about "$5.00" awards. The real value is having your car appreciated by your fellow Cadillac peers. That can happen whether your car is judged or just there for show. The most memorable moments for me at a GN took place when I chatted up the owners of cars that were not to be judged, they were just there on display. The owners loved it and I tried not to drool on their vehicles. I suppose that in a sense, that was their "award" of sorts; having the Cadillac community admire their car as well as their journey taken just to get to a GN. Any award presented is just icing on the cake. Laurie if you ever bottle your "enthusiasm" I got first dibs! Going to spray the inside of Lexi with it & have it mix with that great old car smell. Imagine the attention Lexi would get then???!!! Clay/Lexi  \m/

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Wow.  And I thought I had a lot of time on MY hands.
Greg Surfas

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Fair enough Eric.
So you're saying the judge's manual, that plainly states how many points are deducted for each infraction, are objective and not subjective? That's not only confusing, its unfair to those trying to restore to high level and compete fairly.

The only thing I expound on is increasing membership. Period. And I base it on methods that have been proven to work in other organizations. And I've gone into that in excruciating detail on this thread. You want to hate me for wanting to see my new club expand its membership, go ahead.

Other organizations fail too.

Other organizations have not endured 60 years.

Other organizations are not the CLC.

And no, the art of judging cannot always be defined in black and white.

Expansion is all well and good but at what cost? Could it have implications to the core mission of the CLC? Would quality of membership services slip? Bigger is not necessarily better!

You've just joined the CLC a couple months ago and want to run the place - that and your attitude is beginning to show. You continue to make statements that further reveal your inexperience in this game but refuse to listen. You hastily read a few CLC documents and think that's a substitution for real world, hands on experience. It isn't. That is where the problem is so kindly spare us the sanctimonious platitudes.

[oldcarguy]

Other organizations fail too.

Other organizations have not endured 60 years.

Other organizations are not the CLC.

And no, the art of judging cannot always be defined in black and white.

Expansion is all well and good but at what cost? Could it have implications to the core mission of the CLC? Would quality of membership services slip? Bigger is not necessarily better!

You've just joined the CLC a couple months ago and want to run the show - that and your attitude is beginning to show. You continue to make statements that further reveal your inexperience in this game but refuse to listen. You hastily read a few CLC documents and think that's a substitution for real world, hands on experience. It isn't. That is where the problem is so kindly spare us the sanctimonious platitudes.

Hooray Eric! And as Dan LeBlanc so aptly put it "we have whipped a dead horse" way too many times...Let this post die a natural death! [or unnatural, either way...]   mjussaying!!!!

[Steve Passmore]

Seconded Eric and Don. This thread has now got very boring. lock it some moderator, please.

[Dan LeBlanc]

This thread has definitely run it's course and is starting to devolve.  Nothing new is being said.

By all means, if members want to continue this debate offline, great.