Multiple wire junctions, soldering mess.

[Dan Eckstein]

Question.

The car I am restoring has a few places where there are multiple wires coming together which have been soldered.  I have found this on the instrument panel lights and the accessories.  The wire is in good condition. 

Should I leave it as is or replace it?
Was it common to have one wire feed 4 wires/lights?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I thought that these joints were crimped together.   But, I could be wrong.

But, it isn't wrong for the dial illumination lights to be grouped in this way.

The trouble with soldering the joints is that if overdone, the solder flows deeper into the wire, and creates a stiff situation, which removes the flexibility of the loom.   This is why auto, and aero wiring is crimped.

Bruce.

[Steve Passmore]

I thought that these joints were crimped together.   But, I could be wrong.

Bruce.

This is not so with the older cars Bruce, before the days of crimping they were all soldered, and as you say its normal to butch them together where power is supplied from the same source to several different things.  This must have saved hundreds of miles of wire at the factory.

[Dan Eckstein]

Cool, I wasn't sure.  Many thanks! 

[Caddy Wizard]

My 55 FW has power windows and the right side switches wouldn't work the windows.  The master switch on the driver door would operate the RF and RR windows just fine.  But the switches on those two doors had no power to them. 

Well, it turns out that Cadillac ran a power wire in the loom across the front floor and it split into two at the RF corner of the front seat.  So two wires were soldered into the single wire.  The soldered connection had corroded and failed.  It shows that the soldered connections don't necessarily last forever.

Easy fix.

[59-in-pieces]

Dan,
Although I missed what year car you refer to in your post - but based on your avatar - looks like a 59 - Steve is actually correct and there are a great many such soldered junctions throughout a 59.
Also, the junctions have an added bit of heavy "tape" over them, and then the entire wire loom is wrapped with a smooth "friction tape" like covering- not modern day plastic electric tape.
In my experience, it is very rare that such a junction would fail - unless it were subject to unintended or excessive movement; and then on one or the other side of the joint, the wires might fray - short - break.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[Caddy Wizard]

Dan,
Although I missed what year car you refer to in your post - but based on your avatar - looks like a 59 - Steve is actually correct and there are a great many such soldered junctions throughout a 59.
Also, the junctions have an added bit of heavy "tape" over them, and then the entire wire loom is wrapped with a smooth "friction tape" like covering- not modern day plastic electric tape.
In my experience, it is very rare that such a junction would fail - unless it were subject to unintended or excessive movement; and then on one or the other side of the joint, the wires might fray - short - break.

That is exactly the sort of connection that failed on my 55.  It was well positioned under the jute and carpet and not subjected to movement or stress.  Nonetheless, it failed exactly in the connection.  In my picture, you can see the friction tape on the two ends of the connection.  The one I have bent up to see better in the picture.  It looks to have corroded in half, even though it was well protected inside the cloth loom and even though there is no corrosion in the floor of this car (nor anywhere else, for that matter).

[bcroe]

Well, it turns out that Cadillac ran a power wire in the loom across the front floor and it split into two at the RF corner of the front seat.  So two wires were soldered into the single wire.  The soldered connection had corroded and failed.  It shows that the soldered connections don't necessarily last forever.  Easy fix. 

NOTHING does last forever, heat and humidity typically speed up
the failure.  I might solder that back together, but put some liquid
tape on it, then heat shrink tubing so that the liquid tape comes
out both ends for a pretty good moisture seal.  Bruce Roe

[papas52cad]

Hello Art
Your comment on rear power window operation sounds similar to my issue on my 52 FW. The drivers switch works all windows, but on rear doors the RR switch does not work..yet the RL window switch does...would you suspect a similar wire break failure...or the switch since one rear window still works.
I have been reluctant to open up the RR door panel for fear of the “unknown” ..
But given your comments and photo I’ll now try to find this wire under front seat..although the restorer did rewire car using new harness. I have been wondering what could be the cause since I got the car almost 2 yrs ago

[Caddy Wizard]

Hello Art
Your comment on rear power window operation sounds similar to my issue on my 52 FW. The drivers switch works all windows, but on rear doors the RR switch does not work..yet the RL window switch does...would you suspect a similar wire break failure...or the switch since one rear window still works.
I have been reluctant to open up the RR door panel for fear of the “unknown” ..
But given your comments and photo I’ll now try to find this wire under front seat..although the restorer did rewire car using new harness. I have been wondering what could be the cause since I got the car almost 2 yrs ago

Your 52 is wired differently than a 55.  Having recently unraveled a similar mystery on a 49, I think I have some insight into your 52. 

The 52 has Hydro-Electric windows.  To put a window up, when a switch is thrown into the up position, power is sent to the solenoid on the pump, causing the pump to run.  Power is also sent to a solenoid switch at the particular window lift, opening a valve. So as the pump turns, the pressure created by the pump flowing into the lines can only go into the particular window that you want to operate, lifting the window.  Once the window is up and you let go of the window switch, the valve at the cylinder closes and the pressure is captured in the cylinder, maintaining the window in the current position (note that this means that if you leave the windows up, pressure remains in the cylinder all of the time).  To lower the window, you throw the electric switch to the down position, which energizes the valve at the cylinder to open, allowing the pressure to bleed out from  the cylinder and a little bit of fluid flows back into the reservoir. 

The individual door switches and the master switch are wired such that both are hot and either one of them can energize the pump and the cylinder solenoid valve.


If your master switch operates the window, but the local door switch doesn't, the possible faults are not that many.  First, the local switch might not be getting power, such as by a break in the wiring leading to the switch.  That is easy enough to check by popping out the switch and testing the center terminal with a voltmeter or test light to see if there is juice.  If it has power on the center post, throw the switch to the up position and check for voltage at both the upper and lower posts.  And check to see that when you throw the switch to the lower position that only the lower (I think) post has power.

I would say that the most likely cause of your trouble is a faulty switch (since you have new wiring, a break in the wiring seems less likely than normal).  These switches can be easily taken apart and all of the little contact places cleaned up with a wire wheel and reassembled.  Best disassembled on the kitchen table with plenty of light, paper towels to capture any little parts, and you sitting down comfortably.

[papas52cad]

Thank you Art for your explanation and details
I failed to mention when I wrote that in rewire, the restorer changed to electric motors and eliminated the hydro-electric pump/oil etc....much better in my estimation..but I assume as far as the switch the same is true as you have written...so when I feel brave enough to open the door panel I will do as u suggest on testing the switch which is most likely the cSe as you clearly point out.

[spolij]

I had a similar problem, not with a car. I took a small piece of copper plating very thin sodded everything to it then coated it with the liquid tape.

[59-in-pieces]

Art,
I know this topic is well hashed, but I love a mystery.

The photo you posted was apparently of a "soldered" joint, but it shows that the solder(?) failed into granulation (unusual) - not cracked because of abuse or having been repeatedly or overly flexed.

The photo shows that only in the area of the failure, the floor jute is discolored as well as the braided loom sheathing.
The granular residue almost looks like what you would find around a battery terminal as a result of caustic corrosion.

What do you suppose caused the corrosion and discoloration.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[Bobby B]

What do you suppose caused the corrosion and discoloration.

Steve,
Hi. It's usually caused by moisture and this is what eventually happens. First Gen Camaros and Firebirds have the same issues. They used to Solder wiring at a Junction point which really isn't a great idea. Maybe saving money over using a Juction "Block" of some type. Causes these little gremlin type problems...
                                                                                     Bobby