Replacing inner to outer fender seals on a '56

[Cadman-iac]

I want to replace the seals that go between the front fender and the inner fender or wheel tub if you will.
How do you go about re-attaching the new seal material. The original stuff is stapled in place and even if you could get at it, how do you secure the new stuff? The inner part unfortunately does not separate from the fender. The only way I could think of is to use small pieces of wire. Isn't there a better way?

I eventually want to do this for the rear fenders as well, which is gonna be even harder.

[J. Gomez]

I want to replace the seals that go between the front fender and the inner fender or wheel tub if you will.
How do you go about re-attaching the new seal material. The original stuff is stapled in place and even if you could get at it, how do you secure the new stuff? The inner part unfortunately does not separate from the fender. The only way I could think of is to use small pieces of wire. Isn't there a better way?

I eventually want to do this for the rear fenders as well, which is gonna be even harder.

Richard,

You can get to the inner fender ones from the inside the engine compartment and under the wheel well, you would need to remove the wheels. This would be a two person job to mark the holes position on the new seal and for the installation.

You can use regular staples (wood molding type) and re-shape them to fit the length, you also would need to drill the existing holes to fit the new staples.

I eventually want to do this for the rear fenders as well, which is gonna be even harder.

Hmm ok you lost me there are no seals on the rear unless you mean the rear wheel opening cover.

Good luck..!

[Cadman-iac]

Hmm ok you lost me there are no seals on the rear unless you mean the rear wheel opening cover.

Good luck..!

Actually there are rubber seals between the 1/4 panel and the inner wheel well.  You can see them from inside the 1/4 window well when you remove the trim panels and the access panels. The inner wheel house does not actually attach to the 1/4 panel, but sits just behind it. To keep the dirt and whatever from getting into the trunk and the front of the 1/4 panel GM used a seal there. Then to add extra protection they undecorated the snot out of it.

[35-709]

I used aircraft stainless steel safety wire (0.40 I believe) to make "staples" that I inserted through the new material and old staple holes in the inner fender and bent over ala a staple.  The length of each piece of wire to make a staple you need will become readily apparent.  I have to replace the "A" arm dust shields in the Pontiac I am currently working on so I will get to relearn the process over again.

[Cadman-iac]

I used aircraft stainless steel safety wire (0.40 I believe) to make "staples" that I inserted through the new material and old staple holes in the inner fender and bent over ala a staple.  The length of each piece of wire to make a staple you need will become readily apparent.  I have to replace the "A" arm dust shields in the Pontiac I am currently working on so I will get to relearn the process over again.

That would work I think.  I just hate to try it with the inner fender in place,  but Cadillac in their infinite wisdom decided to make the inner and outer fender as a unit for the 54, 55, and 56's. I can't speak for the    57's or 58's. But I believe they separated them for the 59's and up.

I'll be doing this with the fenders off the car, so that will help some. But  man there must be a better way!!!!

I've got a set of 55 fenders that aren't in the greatest of shape, and I've considered trying to separate the inner fenders on these by drilling out the spot welds where the two are attached, just to see if it can be done, but that may be more trouble than it's worth.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Actually there are rubber seals between the 1/4 panel and the inner wheel well.  You can see them from inside the 1/4 window well when you remove the trim panels and the access panels. The inner wheel house does not actually attach to the 1/4 panel, but sits just behind it.

A picture of that would help. I restored a '56 Sedan de Ville and a '56 Biarritz; on those cars, the inner wheel well was attached to the quarter panel at the wheel aperture.

[Cadman-iac]

A picture of that would help. I restored a '56 Sedan de Ville and a '56 Biarritz; on those cars, the inner wheel well was attached to the quarter panel at the wheel aperture.

I'll take a picture in the morning and post it here.
I might not have seen the seal on mine if it wasn't for the dent/crease in the 1/4 panel. The 1/4 rebounded    slightly but the inner wheel well didn't,  and that's what drew my attention to it in the first place.

[J. Gomez]

Same as Roger, I know the front fenders has them (body anti-squeak bulb type seals) as they are removable never notice them on the rear ones as they are all welded to the quarter panel. 

[Cadman-iac]

A picture of that would help. I restored a '56 Sedan de Ville and a '56 Biarritz; on those cars, the inner wheel well was attached to the quarter panel at the wheel aperture.

As promised, here's the pics of the 1/4 panel to wheel well seals.

The first 3 are of the drivers side,  the other 2 are the passenger side.  All taken from inside the 1/4 panel.

Not sure why,  but all 5 pictures are turned sideways in the post.

[fishnjim]

This is a period restoration problem.   The material is readily available, masticated rubber sheet, but there currently is no one making a stapler capable to shoot through 18 Ga sheet metal.  An artifact of modernization, light weighting, and move to plastics, etc.   Even the 1/2" staples specs have changed, they don't fit the period 1/2" holes.
 
After cleaning and prepping the panels.   I used rubber glue(E6000) to hold the rubber pieces* first, then used an ice pick to make holes through the rubber at the factory staple locations.   Then took heavy staples, widened them a bit, and poked them through the holes and finished off the open end with pliers and a tack hammer on a small anvil.   More for the "look" than hold.   The glue holds well enough.   I tested several brands/types of glues before choosing.   
* - made templates from cardboard/kraft paper to keep.  I do this for all parts I make.

ps: I'm still interested in obtaining the correct machine for this, if anyone is aware of one or even if they knew how it was done or who made machines?   Lost art.
I have clues, searched, but can't find documentation.   I think they used a machine that made the staples from spool wire and shot them and crimped them in one press. much like a book binder.
I got a bunch more to do, someday, but waning motivation to do by hand.
pps: I even contacted all the majors stapler manufacturers and worked with a plier stapler supply company and they couldn't get any current ones to shoot through 18ga test panels.   Even the "for metal" staples aren't strong enough, plus the staple size issue, metric vs SAE and crown changes.   I ended up with several 10s of thousands of staples that I bought that don't work trying to find right ones.   So save yourself some effort looking for new staples.   I even bought some 1/2" hog rings to get the round wire, but they're a bit thick.   
Aircraft wire is stainless, and will shine too much, draw the eye, as these were carbon steel and slowly turn to rust.   But from memory, I recall 40 thousands is about the right OEM wire diam but have to verify.  It's even more tedious, takes longer, to cut and bend all that wire to make staples, plus doing to good appearance standards.   But I have heard several who have done it that way, so they have more patience.

[Roger Zimmermann]

With the pictures it's clearer! That vertical seal is closing the trunk compartment. I don't remember how it was done on my convertible; it may be a molded seal just pushed on the sheetmetal before the rear fenders are soldered to the main body. I doubt that you will be able to replace it.

[Cadman-iac]

This is a period restoration problem.   The material is readily available, masticated rubber sheet, but there currently is no one making a stapler capable to shoot through 18 Ga sheet metal.  An artifact of modernization, light weighting, and move to plastics, etc.   Even the 1/2" staples specs have changed, they don't fit the period 1/2" holes.
 
After cleaning and prepping the panels.   I used rubber glue(E6000) to hold the rubber pieces* first, then used an ice pick to make holes through the rubber at the factory staple locations.   Then took heavy staples, widened them a bit, and poked them through the holes and finished off the open end with pliers and a tack hammer on a small anvil.   More for the "look" than hold.   The glue holds well enough.   I tested several brands/types of glues before choosing.   
* - made templates from cardboard/kraft paper to keep.  I do this for all parts I make.

ps: I'm still interested in obtaining the correct machine for this, if anyone is aware of one or even if they knew how it was done or who made machines?   Lost art.
I have clues, searched, but can't find documentation.   I think they used a machine that made the staples from spool wire and shot them and crimped them in one press. much like a book binder.
I got a bunch more to do, someday, but waning motivation to do by hand.
pps: I even contacted all the majors stapler manufacturers and worked with a plier stapler supply company and they couldn't get any current ones to shoot through 18ga test panels.   Even the "for metal" staples aren't strong enough, plus the staple size issue, metric vs SAE and crown changes.   I ended up with several 10s of thousands of staples that I bought that don't work trying to find right ones.   So save yourself some effort looking for new staples.   I even bought some 1/2" hog rings to get the round wire, but they're a bit thick.   
Aircraft wire is stainless, and will shine too much, draw the eye, as these were carbon steel and slowly turn to rust.   But from memory, I recall 40 thousands is about the right OEM wire diam but have to verify.  It's even more tedious, takes longer, to cut and bend all that wire to make staples, plus doing to good appearance standards.   But I have heard several who have done it that way, so they have more patience.

Yeah, I was hoping to find an easier way to do this, but I'm afraid you're right.
I did it this way for one of my trucks on the inner fenders, and it's a real pain.  Worth the result, but a pain nonetheless.
I'm going to use the seal material that the Chevy people use,  since  I've got a bunch of it anyway.  It's not exactly the same, but very close. And I can trim it if I have to.

You know the old saying,  "the price was right ". That applies to a lot of things here lately it seems.

I've noticed too,  that a lot of stuff made for Chevrolets is identical or really close to the Cadillac stuff,  and much cheaper.
Thank you for the tip on the  glue.  I would have used the typical weatherstrip glue for lack of a better idea.
This being a resto-mod more than a restoration, I don't know that shiny staples would be a concern for me though.  I'm looking at longevity here.  I guess if I had the same quality wire that the factory had, then definitely I'd go that route.
As for the template idea, I've done that too. Especially for those things that I've modified in some way.  It also helps when you need to replace a part that has worn out from wear or time,  like the masticated rubber stuff around the suspension or bumpers.

[Cadman-iac]

With the pictures it's clearer! That vertical seal is closing the trunk compartment. I don't remember how it was done on my convertible; it may be a molded seal just pushed on the sheetmetal before the rear fenders are soldered to the main body. I doubt that you will be able to replace it.

Yeah,  I know it won't be easy, and maybe I'll get lucky and it will be pliable enough to work for many more years.  I'm hoping that's the case cuz I'm not looking forward to this at all.
The main reason why I'm thinking of doing this is because of the dirt and water staining you can see in the 1/4's, and the last thing I want is to get rust and rot there.
I know part of it is due to window leakage, and I'm addressing that too.  Already installed new felt strips in the window channels. (More Chevy stuff)

[Roger Zimmermann]

If it's raining or if you are washing the car, there will be always water going part the belt line weatherstrips. Most important is that the drain holes are kept open and not obstructed by bondo or inside dirt.

[Caddy Wizard]

I would remove the front fenders for easy access.  Use stainless steel staples (some auto specialty fastener place sells them.  Remove the old bulb seals, clamp new bulb seals in place.  Use a small drill bit to go through the existing staple holes in the fender and through the new rubber.  Manually insert new stainless staples through the holes.  Squeeze the staples and the rubber tight with pliers and bend over the ends of the staples.  If you want, you could add glue before placing the new bulb seals, but that will only help for the first several years.  Eventually, the glue will fail and the staples will be the thing that holds everything together.


This is similar to installing the beltline fuzzies against the door glass...

[Cadman-iac]

I would remove the front fenders for easy access. 

Yeah, I've already basically grenaded the car. I'm in the middle of fitting the 472 engine and related necessities such as the radiator, brakes,  etc..
The body is still in place,  but the front end is all about the yard right now. This is gonna be a long drawn out process I'm afraid. Just me, no help,  as usual,  unfortunately.