circa 1970 Cadillacs (probably applies to 41 thru 85 RWD)

[Jeepers Creepers]

4 doors works for me.

[tc76ldovert]

Back in 85 I was in college in Iowa.  I bought a 69 SDV from an older couple and I think I paid $1500. The 4 door hardtop was the best of both worlds. Easy in and out for passengers but I could burn up the highways with 4 windows down and it hardly messed up my hair. The lack of a B pillar made for what seemed like only a slight breeze inside the car. All 4 windows down in any car today is an annoying noisy proposition.

[cadillacmike68]

Nice Fleetwood, Kevin.

[chrisntam]

snip...
All 4 windows down in any car today is an annoying noisy proposition.

Agree!  Why is that??

[Jeepers Creepers]

Nice Fleetwood, Kevin.

Why thank you, kind sir.

[Steve W]

When I was growing up, hardtop coupes were always considered “cool”, and sportier, be it Shoebox Chevys, or Coupe deVilles!
And when I reached my max height of 6’6”, the longer coupe door made a huge difference too!
On my 68 Camaro SS, and 66 GTO, (both convertibles) I took them to the shop to have the seat mounted farther back, but on my 68 CDV, the stock seat has two mounting positions, (which I did not know prior to buying it) so naturally I have it mounted in the rearward position... and it’s just right!  I don’t know if it’s the same way on a sedan.
Also, on my Coupe, when I have the seat all the way back, and look out the window, there’s no post blocking my view.

[Anderson]

Just seeing this, and I'm a bit confused...but when I was shopping for mine I basically got nudged away from a non-Fleetwood sedan.  The nudge was either to a CDV, Fleetwood, or Eldorado because they "looked cooler".

Please note that my instinct *was* a four-door model (probably a Fleetwood, mind you) and the Eldorado...lovely car that it is...was actually something of a "compromise" over a month or two of chasing a car that was in good shape (i.e. limited/no rust).  I looked at a few SDVs but got "nudged" off of them (particularly the later-year ones, which "looked like an Oldsmobile" in the words of a friend).

(The nudge to 1970 and onward was based on expected handling as much as anything, particularly in terms of braking...though NGL the massive motor is also a draw.)

[cadillacmike68]

Back in 85 I was in college in Iowa.  I bought a 69 SDV from an older couple and I think I paid $1500. The 4 door hardtop was the best of both worlds. Easy in and out for passengers but I could burn up the highways with 4 windows down and it hardly messed up my hair. The lack of a B pillar made for what seemed like only a slight breeze inside the car. All 4 windows down in any car today is an annoying noisy proposition.

Any window down at speed is noisy.

That's what Climate Control is for.   

[James Landi]

Great topic and enjoying the individual responses.  I think by the mid 50's, designers were evolving designs that were long, low and and having a convertible profile with out the convertible top and without window pillars.  With the advent of the "two tone" cars back in the early 50's ( yes, that was new and considered flashy), I recall my grandfather and folks his age who were appalled by the ostentation and desire by some Americans to be "show offs."  A solid black car was truly considered the "norm," and, of course, transportation was practical, and without frills. SO the two door coupe was a very personal statement against the norm  (think: "Rebel without a cause").  The introduction of the racing car as a roadster- "sports car," was a natural extension of that personal statement--- and then, of course, came the Thunderbird and the notion of a small, opulent "personal car" mainly designed for two.   As an early boomer  (1945), our XLR is hardly   sensible. transportation, with two seats, and  sufficient room in the truck for an overnight bag--- but to my mind, it harkens back to the day when Americans were so very practical, were largely conformist, and would never be seen in a red two seater with irridescent red paint.   As my grandfather, who was born "on the other side" back in 1889 would say, "What are you trying to prove?"  Happy day?   James

[dochawk]

wow . . . a downright Calvinist response to automobiles . . . 

[Lexi]

Fascinating comments James! Clay/Lexi

[cadillacmike68]

One word that does NOT come to mind when thinking of an XLR is practical.

[James Landi]

Mike,-- spot on-- our XLR certainly IS the most impractical car I've ever owned, but once my wife and I test drove this model, it is absolutely irresistible and incredibly refined in so many ways.  And along the lines of this topic, such excesses in design and explorations of "impracticality" are certainly part of the Cadillac brand, and as DocHawk commented in a roundabout way, not part of the main stream "Calvinist American Culture" that people my age (74) were immersed in to following WWII.  Happy day,  James

[cadillacmike68]

Mike,-- spot on-- our XLR certainly IS the most impractical car I've ever owned, but once my wife and I test drove this model, it is absolutely irresistible and incredibly refined in so many ways.  And along the lines of this topic, such excesses in design and explorations of "impracticality" are certainly part of the Cadillac brand, and as DocHawk commented in a roundabout way, not part of the main stream "Calvinist American Culture" that people my age (74) were immersed in to following WWII.  Happy day,  James

James, I'm not really in a position to comment on what's practical, having had a Miata for 5 years. We bought it new in 2001 and it was our last "new" car (traded it in late 2004 for a 2000 El Dorado convertible). But I did drive that Miata from Tampa FL to Ft Dix NJ with all my boots, uniforms, computer, etc for a 2 week. CGSC training. It all barely fit, I had to hang my uniforms behind the back seats, monitor on the seat beside me and my arms about vibrated off after about 12 hrs driving the first day, not to mention a 7 hour sun & wind burn across the left side of my face as I drove up I-95.

I did make max use of the car, leaving the 1995 Fleetwood for her, and got 30MPG+ for the entire trip.

I'd go out and get an XLR for the boss lady right now, but she likes being her niece & nephew taxi service and there are just too many issues with XLRs at present and they are not likely to ever get resolved.

Now another 2000-2002 El Dorado with a Coach Builders conversion - that's another story.

[wrench]

Well, wake me up when Richard Petty drives a 4 door car around the track at Daytona at 200+ mph.

I’m thinking speed, aerodynamics, maneuverability and gross weight are the factors affecting 2 door v. 4 door. I just don’t see Smokey and the Bandit hot rodding around in a ‘77 4 door Cutlass Supreme Brougham

It is for this reason that most of the old cars that have survived were 4 doors as the 2 doors got racked up along the way. (Thus increasing the inherent value of 2 door cars, lol)

Unless the kid borrowed grandma’s car and hit the railroad tracks at 60 mph and got some air.

[cadillacmike68]

Well, wake me up when Richard Petty drives a 4 door car around the track at Daytona at 200+ mph.

I’m thinking speed, aerodynamics, maneuverability and gross weight are the factors affecting 2 door v. 4 door. I just don’t see Smokey and the Bandit hot rodding around in a ‘77 4 door Cutlass Supreme Brougham

It is for this reason that most of the old cars that have survived were 4 doors as the 2 doors got racked up along the way. (Thus increasing the inherent value of 2 door cars, lol)

Unless the kid borrowed grandma’s car and hit the railroad tracks at 60 mph and got some air.

NASCAR stopped being "stock cars" many years ago.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

And that's when NASCAR died as far as I was concerned.

In the '70's, every car could be identified from miles away.   Now you have to get up close and look at the name, as the badges are getting similar.

Bruce.

[wrench]

Actually, that was my point about Richard Petty. I tell people when he retired I stopped watching NASCAR...

Anyway, I think the 2 door vs 4 door thing goes back to early stock car racing (and selling!)

“Win on Sunday, sell on Monday...”

[Scot Minesinger]

The large two doors are not racers.  The race between a 1970 CDV and 1970 SDV would be won by the better driver, better mechanical condition, or combo of the two.  It would not be won by the CDV due to aerodynamics, weight, and etc. posted as advantages of two door cars.

It is understood that the answer may be that speed, coolness and etc. may be associated with two door cars over four doors, but it is not reality on the larger vehicles.

Any suicide four door car or available only as a 4 door is probably an exception, such as a Fleetwood or 1957/8's Eldorado Brougham.

Got the answer: misconception.  Hope it continues so I can buy closed 4 door cars discounted over two door vehicles.

[dochawk]

having had a Miata for 5 years. We bought it new in 2001

I bought one new in '06, when it got just enough larger that I could fit in it (well, for short distances--I was in pain after taking it 350 miles, as my left thigh doesn't actually rest on the seat.  And I put a whole through the floor mats with my heel the first week from using the clutch, and drove in socks or barefoot thereafter).


I didn't fit with the top up (less than 1,000 of the 70,000 miles on it, all in rain or heavy wind--but at 40+, you could drive through *pouring* rain without getting wet; it may have the best air pocket of all time).

It was a blast, even though it got lower and smaller every year.

But I would never buy a Mazda again:  transmission dropped all of its oil and fused at 40k miles, the engine went at 60k, and the rebuild at 70k (and that's not mentioning the other mishaps that had it in for regular warranty work, such as the oil line that got loose and sprayed the entire engine compartment.  We *never* got it all out).

So why post this on a Cadillac forum?

At the moment, it's in line behind the Eldorado and the little Eldorado to get work done--there's a shop in Texas with perfectly good engines it pulls when it sticks in bigger engines.  It will be a full day's work, but no more, with a friend to swap one in.

But *some* days, I scheme to stick a Northstar in it . . . (there are off the shelf kits for both ford 302 and any gm LS engines, but this would be different).   On more sane days, though, I realize that the *sensible* way to get a Northstar Miata would be to take an STS with wrecked body, chop and shorten/narrow the frame, and drop the Miata body on top.   Much less expensive than the *other* changes to suspension, etc., to get it to handle V8 power. (stock, "someone" was heading up the baker grade in California [sustained 15% or so], looked down after passing, and noticed it was still accelerating at 105 with the top down . . .)

And, of course, if I did the conversion, I would get a custom chrome tag in old Cadillac script the read "Miatalac"