All Electric by 2035 and the collector car hobby.

[bcroe]

I have taken many, many long trips in EVs and the time difference is negligible. In fact, the last 1200 round trip I took had no difference in travel time. 

I used to have a regular annual routine of long trips, the 900 mile
only involved 2 stops, average speed (including stops) was 66 mph
without doing anything risky.  The 1100 mile trip took more stops,
the 1250 mile a bit of a marathon, average speed still pretty close
to the same.  That will not be duplicated by an electric vehicle. 

Bruce Roe

[MaR]

That's not possible unless you're in the habit of stopping regularly for long periods of time. I actually need to be somewhere and routinely drive 450-500 miles straight in a work day only stopping quick for bathroom breaks and fuel. There is no electric vehicle made (yet) that has that capability, and that's just a passenger car. Add the shear weight of a loaded pickup truck traveling 70 mph for 6-8 hours and the EV range and travel time becomes drastically worse than the advertised numbers.
FWIW, Tesla makes the longest range EV, advertised at 402 miles. That number was surely acquired under perfect test conditions and probably isn't close to that in real world driving.

We stop one time to eat lunch and charged while we ate. My wife's car has a range of 325 miles and we stopped with about 40 miles left as indicated by the car. We run with traffic the entire way with autopilot set and we have done this trip many, many times in several different vehicles including two different EVs.

[MaR]

I used to have a regular annual routine of long trips, the 900 mile
only involved 2 stops, average speed (including stops) was 66 mph
without doing anything risky.  The 1100 mile trip took more stops,
the 1250 mile a bit of a marathon, average speed still pretty close
to the same.  That will not be duplicated by an electric vehicle. 

Bruce Roe

Never say never. The upcoming Lucid Air and the upcoming Model S Dual Motor with the 4680 cells will be able to handle that with no issues at all.

[bcroe]

Never say never. The upcoming Lucid Air and the upcoming Model S Dual Motor with the 4680 cells will be able to handle that with no issues at all.

I will not be holding my breath.  May I should have mentioned the
mountains and cold weather.  Bruce Roe

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Whatever happens will happen, and we will become accustomed to doing what we need to do, just as the first motorists did when the transition from the horse and cart.

Back then, the thoughts was what are we going to do when the petrol runs out, and I can't find a Drug Store to buy some more?   At least, with my horse, it kept on going, and virtually fed itself from trackside vegetation.

Bruce.

PS.   Plus, I could have a nap when I felt like it, and ol' Faithful would still keep on plodding along.

[TJ Hopland]

Plus, I could have a nap when I felt like it, and ol' Faithful would still keep on plodding along.

You mean Tesla didn't invent that?   And you don't have to shove oranges in the steering wheel so you can really sleep?  Guess nothing is really new. 

[mgrab]

I'm watching all the headlines out of Texas... couple dozen deaths, funeral homes requesting ice trucks since they don't have power etc.  How is this going to work??  Don't say solar panels, my home just today saw the sun after almost a week.  My home is 100% electric... it sucks in an outage.  The only solace I have is a FWD vehicle in the garage to get my wife and I out if needed.  When I use a generator I have to chose what to run.  Recently, my neighbor buried a propane tank to run the house during an outage... I may follow suit.  People need to embrace nuclear if this is going to be realistic. My two cents..

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

And I saw on the news last night that somewhere the Wing Generators in one place froze solid in the cold weather.

Bruce.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Does anyone care to project electric rates for a 100% EV fleet and the strain it would impose on an already overtaxed electrical grid? Instead of just California having rolling blackouts it will be the entire country. Then people die. Just look at a single cold snap has done to Texas leaving millions without power and at the worst possible time under the worst conditions imaginable. Time for people to wake up for this is just a foretaste.

Warren Buffet once called Bitcoin “rat poison squared”. EVs are exactly the same except they are worse.

[gkhashem]

I am going on a tongue in cheek rant, since the whole thread is making me ill.

So let's cover the entire surface of the earth with Chinese solar panels while we are at it.

Who cares what the scenery will  look like, or if we cover farmland. Power over food to eat.  Maybe we can have floating solar panels floating in the oceans?

Dream big like a climate czar! Who draws a government paycheck or some subsidy at the common person's expense.

Then we can pile of the tons and tons of toxic batteries in a hidden away location and pretend there is no ecological consequence to all the waste we have created.

Now do people really think humans are the main driver in climate change? The biggest variable is yes can I say it the SUN!!!!! It changes in intensity, it is not set at a temperature and never varies from it. It changes. So when it does the climate changes. Also the earth wobbles on it's axis and seasons change every 26,000 years. I wonder if that bar maid AOC knows that?  It's called precession of the axis.

There was an ice age about 10,000 years ago. I guess those Neanderthals driving their cars caused that climate change! So how come the earth had an ice age without fossils fuels if climate never changes.

The fact is they really do not know, but when there is money to be made they are experts. How can we tell what is natural change and what is man made?

I love being told about the science from politicians with legal degrees. I know a few lawyers and science is not their academic strength. It's like going to a ditch digger to get medical advice. Nothing against a ditch digger.

OK I feel much better now.


So I say if your 60 or older do not worry about it, we will most likely be dead.  Enjoy driving when summer gets here. Since this winter has not been fun. I  look forward to some summer global warming. I am going to burn all the premium octane I can get my hands on, unless our leaders drive the price up to $5.00 a gallon.

[mgrab]

I am going on a tongue in cheek rant, since the whole thread is making me ill.

So let's cover the entire surface of the earth with Chinese solar panels while we are at it.

Who cares what the scenery will  look like, or if we cover farmland. Power over food to eat.  Maybe we can have floating solar panels floating in the oceans?

Dream big like a climate czar! Who draws a government paycheck or some subsidy at the common person's expense.

Then we can pile of the tons and tons of toxic batteries in a hidden away location and pretend there is no ecological consequence to all the waste we have created.

Now do people really think humans are the main driver in climate change? The biggest variable is yes can I say it the SUN!!!!! It changes in intensity, it is not set at a temperature and never varies from it. It changes. So when it does the climate changes. Also the earth wobbles on it's axis and seasons change every 26,000 years. I wonder if that bar maid AOC knows that?  It's called precession of the axis.

There was an ice age about 10,000 years ago. I guess those Neanderthals driving their cars caused that climate change! So how come the earth had an ice age without fossils fuels if climate never changes.

The fact is they really do not know, but when there is money to be made they are experts. How can we tell what is natural change and what is man made?

I love being told about the science from politicians with legal degrees. I know a few lawyers and science is not their academic strength. It's like going to a ditch digger to get medical advice. Nothing against a ditch digger.

OK I feel much better now.


So I say if your 60 or older do not worry about it, we will most likely be dead.  Enjoy driving when summer gets here. Since this winter has not been fun. I  look forward to some summer global warming. I am going to burn all the premium octane I can get my hands on, unless our leaders drive the price up to $5.00 a gallon.

Amen.  At one point in time my property was at the bottom of the ocean.  The reason it is above sea level now isn't because dinosaurs rolled around in cars. I envy some of you older folks...I'm in my early 40's and hope for better days.  Over 20 years ago I had a professor that cringed at all the biased research that was being done at the time.

[MaR]

I am going on a tongue in cheek rant, since the whole thread is making me ill.

So let's cover the entire surface of the earth with Chinese solar panels while we are at it.

Who cares what the scenery will  look like, or if we cover farmland. Power over food to eat.  Maybe we can have floating solar panels floating in the oceans?

Dream big like a climate czar! Who draws a government paycheck or some subsidy at the common person's expense.

Then we can pile of the tons and tons of toxic batteries in a hidden away location and pretend there is no ecological consequence to all the waste we have created.

Now do people really think humans are the main driver in climate change? The biggest variable is yes can I say it the SUN!!!!! It changes in intensity, it is not set at a temperature and never varies from it. It changes. So when it does the climate changes. Also the earth wobbles on it's axis and seasons change every 26,000 years. I wonder if that bar maid AOC knows that?  It's called precession of the axis.

There was an ice age about 10,000 years ago. I guess those Neanderthals driving their cars caused that climate change! So how come the earth had an ice age without fossils fuels if climate never changes.

The fact is they really do not know, but when there is money to be made they are experts. How can we tell what is natural change and what is man made?

I love being told about the science from politicians with legal degrees. I know a few lawyers and science is not their academic strength. It's like going to a ditch digger to get medical advice. Nothing against a ditch digger.

OK I feel much better now.


So I say if your 60 or older do not worry about it, we will most likely be dead.  Enjoy driving when summer gets here. Since this winter has not been fun. I  look forward to some summer global warming. I am going to burn all the premium octane I can get my hands on, unless our leaders drive the price up to $5.00 a gallon.

[bcroe]

I am going on a tongue in cheek rant, since the whole thread is making me ill.
So let's cover the entire surface of the earth with Chinese solar panels while we are at it.
Who cares what the scenery will  look like, or if we cover farmland. Power over food to eat.  Maybe we can have floating solar panels floating in the oceans?

Then we can pile of the tons and tons of toxic batteries in a hidden away location and pretend there is no ecological consequence to all the waste we have created.

Now do people really think humans are the main driver in climate change? The biggest variable is yes can I say it the SUN!!!!! It changes in intensity, it is not set at a temperature and never varies from it. It changes. So when it does the climate changes. Also the earth wobbles on it's axis and seasons change every 26,000 years. I wonder if that bar maid AOC knows that?  It's called precession of the axis.

The fact is they really do not know, but when there is money to be made they are experts.

OK I feel much better now.  I am going to burn all the premium octane I can get my hands on, unless our leaders drive the price up to $5.00 a gallon. 

I observe, industry promotes what they know how to make today.  That is
solar panels (and other renewables) and batteries.  The tree huggers are all
out to solve our problems with these items. 
My property is carbon neutral, power comes from a marriage called NET METERING,
between my solar panels and the power co nuke plant, there are NO BATTERIES.  I
am not a tree hugger, but an engineer that believes in things that actually work. 
Seems like our best shot is totally redesigned thorium Nuke, and India will try to
prove it in my lifetime.  Meantime, all my engines will run just fine on crap 87
unleaded.  Bruce Roe

[cadillacmike68]

But as EVs become more plentiful hotels/motels will have chargers in their parking lots where you can charge you car. Restaurants along the major routes will also have them to charge while you eat.

Partially recharging a battery is never a good thing. It shortens the life of the battery.

And who is to say there will even be an open charger any place you stop at???

[TJ Hopland]

Partially recharging a battery is never a good thing. It shortens the life of the battery.

It depend on what kind of batteries you are talking about.  NiCads sure but there isn't much that uses those anymore.   There are many types including those commonly used in electric cars (and just about everything people re charge these days) that actually have longer life if you keep them kinda in the middle.   They will also take a much higher charge rate in that middle range than they will when you get closer to full.     

You can actually spend less time charging if you can charge often than the time it takes to do a full charge and cover the same distance just because the charge rate.   The last 80-100% can take as long as it does to go from 30-80%.     Lets say you only get 1 mile per percent so that 30-80 gets you 50 miles and takes one hour.  If you wait another hour you only get another 20 miles.   If you have to go 70 miles you have to wait that extra hour but if you can charge along the way you may only need to charge for 15 mins to gain that 20 miles that would have taken an hour. 

Will that work for everyone?  No but could it work for some people?  Sure.   Tesla's have an app built in to help you figure out trips based on charging.   There are apps for everyone else and you can program in all your preferences for frequent vs long stops even down to what kind of food or other stuff may be around the charging stations.  The apps also can tell you and redirect you if a charging station is full assuming there are options,  it may tell you that the north station is full but 1/2 the stalls are open at the south one.     

[MaR]

It depend on what kind of batteries you are talking about.  NiCads sure but there isn't much that uses those anymore.   There are many types including those commonly used in electric cars (and just about everything people re charge these days) that actually have longer life if you keep them kinda in the middle.   They will also take a much higher charge rate in that middle range than they will when you get closer to full.     

You can actually spend less time charging if you can charge often than the time it takes to do a full charge and cover the same distance just because the charge rate.   The last 80-100% can take as long as it does to go from 30-80%.     Lets say you only get 1 mile per percent so that 30-80 gets you 50 miles and takes one hour.  If you wait another hour you only get another 20 miles.   If you have to go 70 miles you have to wait that extra hour but if you can charge along the way you may only need to charge for 15 mins to gain that 20 miles that would have taken an hour. 

Will that work for everyone?  No but could it work for some people?  Sure.   Tesla's have an app built in to help you figure out trips based on charging.   There are apps for everyone else and you can program in all your preferences for frequent vs long stops even down to what kind of food or other stuff may be around the charging stations.  The apps also can tell you and redirect you if a charging station is full assuming there are options,  it may tell you that the north station is full but 1/2 the stalls are open at the south one.     

When you put a destination in to the navigation system in a Tesla, it calculates the trip and adds in any charging stops that would be needed along the way. It will re-route you in the event that a scheduled Supercharger is full (you can see the usage in real time) and if your battery is not at the optimal temperature for DC charging, it will pre-condition the battery as you approach the charging location. Amenities are listed for each location as well as costs. The suggested charging time is optimized for trip speed rather than getting a "full tank" at each stop.

[Anderson]

Does anyone care to project electric rates for a 100% EV fleet and the strain it would impose on an already overtaxed electrical grid? Instead of just California having rolling blackouts it will be the entire country. Then people die. Just look at a single cold snap has done to Texas leaving millions without power and at the worst possible time under the worst conditions imaginable. Time for people to wake up for this is just a foretaste.

Warren Buffet once called Bitcoin “rat poison squared”. EVs are exactly the same except they are worse.

I'm going to reply to your comment alongside a lot of other sturm und drang here:

If there's going to be an EV push, then it needs to be accompanied by three other things:
-One is a move to much, much more distributed battery storage (like what Musk set up in Australia) to ensure that there's a day or two of power backed up.  That won't avoid all of the power cuts from when a tree comes down, for example, but it'll limit the frequency of those cuts and limit issues with midday rolling blackouts (since you can "fill up" the batteries at times of lower demand).

-Second is that there needs to be a serious mandate that state/local authorities /must/ provide enough power generating capacity, to the point of force-issuing permits for power plants (and settling lost land value suits afterwards) as long as safety criteria are met (e.g. no putting a nuclear plant on a major fault line).

-The final one, frankly, is that we need to reassess having nuclear power as part of the system.  This actually goes back to the battery storage front: Nuclear power works best when it's always running.  If you have the power grid set up whereby you're consuming X amount of power during the day but you can keep production closer to stable at night even when consumption drops because you're charging up the batteries (and not having to push production quite so much during the peak 2-4 hours of the day).  The big thing is that nuclear generation isn't likely to get hosed because you have a foot of snow fall (or a bunch of dust blow in) and the panels are covered, or because the wind goes slack.  I know that solar generation doesn't necessarily go to zero and that panels are likely to clear off /relatively/ fast, but that doesn't avoid the fact that this can cause nasty, badly-timed cuts in capacity.  Also, putting nuclear online means you can pull all sorts of other stuff (oil/gas/coal) offline faster.

TL;DR: I think it's quite plausible to get to a workable grid that's either zero-emissions or close-to-zero emissions, but it still needs a lot of work.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

If there's going to be an EV push, then it needs to be accompanied by three other things:
-One is a move to much, much more distributed battery storage (like what Musk set up in Australia) to ensure that there's a day or two of power backed up.  That won't avoid all of the power cuts from when a tree comes down, for example, but it'll limit the frequency of those cuts and limit issues with midday rolling blackouts (since you can "fill up" the batteries at times of lower demand).

-Second is that there needs to be a serious mandate that state/local authorities /must/ provide enough power generating capacity, to the point of force-issuing permits for power plants (and settling lost land value suits afterwards) as long as safety criteria are met (e.g. no putting a nuclear plant on a major fault line).

I have a far better idea. It's called the free market system - the most efficient allocator of scarce & valuable resources that has ever been and can never be improved upon until the end of time.

That which is desired should never need to be "pushed." If it does, it is undesirable by definition.

[TJ Hopland]

I wonder if it could end up being that the cars get connected to the grid when not in use?   Its a lot of battery capacity that is available.   There could be incentive programs to help get the capacity where it was needed when it was needed.   I'm not saying 'free money' either.   The power companies have to buy the power from somewhere so they may buy it from a customer instead of another power company.  The tech to actively manage that is already around so its just getting the scale to a point its workable. 

[gkhashem]

I have a far better idea. It's called the free market system - the most efficient allocator of scarce & valuable resources that has ever been and can never be improved upon until the end of time.

That which is desired should never need to be "pushed." If it does, it is undesirable by definition.

Absolutely correct, except Eric you do not know what you desire or need. Someone else needs to decide that for you and me.