The Physics of NASCAR Safety

[Porter 21919]

Lets get real with all this safety talk about cars, air bags are not the answer to safety, and no, I dont agree a small percentage of people killed by air bags is acceptable versus the people that are saved by them. Milton Friedman, is an economist, who is he to voice his opinion on the subject ?

Let all cars have a safety restraint system that must be buckled by the occupants that cant be unbuckled while the engine is running, in addition to the crumple zones, etc. that we have had for decades now.

http://www.kent.k12.wa.us/staff/TomRobinson/physicspages/POpart2/po2002/NASCAR/index.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.kent.k12.wa.us/staff/TomRobinson/physicspages/POpart2/po2002/NASCAR/index.html

We all have auto insurance to protect our liability and to protect ourselves.

The insurance companies sell it to make money.

Your comments are welcome on this subject, fire away.

Porter

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Porter,

The difference between NASCAR, and other forms of motor sport is that ALL vehicles are going in the same direction.

Even though the speeds are high, when a crash occurs, rarely are they going to be hit by a vehicle coming at them from the oppositre direction, at a simmilar speed.   That is why tracks go in one direction only.

The modern automobile cant be fitted with the same protection as a race car driver has because there would be no room for passengers.

And, dont forget that racing drivers have things like crash helmets, fire suits, five or six point harnesses, and are fully protected by a conglomeration of tubing that form a roll cage.

Notice that nobody ever calls altercations in racing "Accidents".   They are Crashes, and they dont refer to Accident Helmets.

Oh, nearly forgot, Race Cars weigh a lot more than Road Cars, and they dont have to meet the pollution requirements of Road Cars, and Road Cars carry more than just a driver.   What Race Car is allowed to carry loose items in the trunk and none even tow a trailer, except in the Demolition Derbys when they try to destroy Caravans.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   Race Car Drivers have to pass stringent health and licence testing before they can even get a licence to drive.

[Porter 21919]

However, perhaps some of the Nascar safety requirements could be enforced , shared or required with the driving public instead of just installing airbags everywhere.

Granted we have many old cars still on the road but we must start somewhere with the new cars, perhaps better driver training and awareness of the pitfalls and hazards of driving would be a good start.

At any rate we all agree, most accidents are caused by poor drivers, there are many ways to design a car to protect the occupants at various costs.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Porter,

There arent many of the NASCAR Safety Equipment that could be used on the everyday car.

The Everyday Car has to have the following:
(1)   Doors that actually open,
(2)   Safety Belts that can be actually worn without having to go through a long procedure to put them on.   And, have to be fully adjustable.
(3)   Heaters and other comfort items,
(4)   Tyres that allow the vehicle to be driven in all weather conditions and last longer than 300 miles,
(5)   Be fuel efficient,
(6)   Plus many more things that stop a race car from being driven on the street.

If people took into account that it is not just a right, but a privelege that anyone can drive a car, bus, truck or motor bike, then they just might take the operating of a mechanised means of transport a bit more seriously.

If you cause a crash, then be prepared to take the consequences, for the rest of your life.   Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   The best way to design a car to protect the occupants is to omit the engine.

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

The only thing that would make cars safe on our modern highways and streets is if we kept the stupid drivers from driving them!  And no, I would NOT accept a computer doing it.  As always....people are the real issue.

After that, a good safety restraint and something no one can afford to be without ... common $&*percent&percent(* sense.  :/

[Porter 21919]

Randall,

Just stirring up the pot here a little bit and voicing my opinions and instigating others opinions.

I still think the emphasis nowadays is on style and not outright safety, too many bells and whistles and the collision repairs are horrendous $$$ wise.

Volvo has always been one of the most safety concious engineered cars. They had to cave in to the stylists to sell cars.

Style and performance are in vogue once again, all the air bags in the world will not protect the occupant if they dont drive safely and defensively while wearing their belts.

My 67 CDV Rat Rod  has the provision for the shoulder harness, I might just put in some racing seats from Jegs and bolt myself in nice and tight, it will be safer and it will make the car look fast like a race car, not that I will drive it fast but I want it to be loud and sound menacing ! LOL The upholstery is shot and everything has been gutted from the interior to weld up the floor patches, might just leave it gutted. Believe me, this car would never be restored by any sane individual, the saving grace is the low mileage strong 429, runs sweet.

I still think the Nascar has something to be offered for the everyday driver with their inherent safety features, unless they prefer Onstar, TVs,DVDs, onboard navigation systems, hands free cell phones, etc.

Even with the danger of driving the Nascar the drivers are paying attention and just driving, surrounded by the utmost safety engineered into the vehicle.

Porter

[Yann Saunders, CLC# 12588]

Bruce has found a solution to reduce (eliminate) fatalties and road accidents in general:  fit ALL motor vehicles with NASCAR-type shoulder harnesses and rollbars.  Impose one-way traffic on all roads (I would add "all roads with a speed limit over 30 mph.)  

How about these :

1.  Pop up steel "barriers" at junctions in lieu of stop signs and red lights (try running a stop sign or red light knowing that a 3-4 foot high steel barrier was about to pop up in front of your car as you approached a STOP sign or a light that just switched to amber). Retraction could be triggered by the green light or by sensors on the cross street indicating "no approaching traffic".

2.  Automatic engine cut-out at any speed exceeding 75 mph (with no way of restarting the engine until expiry of the government-imposed "time out" of 5, 10, 15 mintutes ...).

3.  No licenses for people under the age of 21 (same as for drinking alcohol). And during the first 5 years after the license is issued, obligation to be accompanied by a qualified driver with at least 5 years of driving experience.

4.  No drivers license for anyone without a US voter registration card, or green card AND social security number.

5.  No cars on the road with a top speed over 80 mph.

Fun, no ?

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

eh ....




in a word ....




no.

[Eric Kahn clc 20839]

Since 99percent of the US has no mass transit system of any kind, be kind of hard to get to work untill you are 26, unless you lived at work (what fun)

the hardwired engine shut off at 75 would kill many more people than it ever saves, just imagine the highways littered with cars that have shut down and cant be restarted, there would be accidents everywhere

the average speed in Montana during the few years they had no speed limit was in the mid 70s and the majority of really high speed wrecks and speeders had out of state tags, so we will not become a nation of high speed maniacs if the speed limits went away, which will never happen since the states count on speeding ticket revenues way too much

if you think people dont wear their seat belts now when you only have one buck and it takes like 5 seconds to buckle it, wait untill they have to deal with multiple buckles and adjusting straps every time they get in the car

If you are really that worried about saftey, drive a school bus, safest vehicle on the road, will not crush when rolled over and you cant get it going much over 60 MPH without changing the rear end since they were designed for city traffic speeds so they have  rear ends designed to give them good acceleration at the expense of top end speed and since they are based on common truck chassis  and drive trains, parts are easy to get and last forever anyways

As for me, I will take my airbags and creature comforts and live with the miniscule risks involved, after all, I do ride motorcycles, no seat belts or even doors to protect me, but they are working on an airbag for them to prevent the massive chest injuries that occur in about 50percent of motorcycle wrecks, which are when someone in a car pulls out in front of a motorcycle on a road

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

I understand what you are saying, Eric.  Most of this kind of mumbling is just voicing opinions, I doubt we could change any of it even if we wanted to.  
I dont.  As long as there are interesting second hand, etc.. cars out there I am a happy camper.  If they outlaw them, since we seem to be writing laws for everything these days, then I will choose the most innocuous one I can find, something I can afford and just keep it (that would be a VW bug 2000 or newer).  And never look at cars again.  There are other things to occupy my time with, cars being only one interest.

I still say, the only real safety is in your driving defensively with full attention and obeying all the rules, hoping the 1percent you cannot control do the same.
Never rely on a machine to do it for you.  Besides safety and security are illusions.

NASCAR is hyped to a fair thee well.  Id rather pay attention to Formula One and European racing, if I had to do it at all.   SCCA is fun, for the most part.

[Eric Kahn clc 20839]

Even after saying all of that, I would still like one of the old "stripped" sedans, 6cyl, 3 on the tree and manual everything from the 60s

[Denise 20352]

> P.S. The best way to design a car to protect the occupants is to omit the engine

  Obviously you havent seen some of the downhill racers that Ive built.

-denise

[Denise 20352]

> If you are really that worried about saftey, drive a school bus, safest vehicle on the road

   Excellent idea.  Tony was doing some research about why kids dont have to have seat belts on buses, and it turns out that theyre designed to plow over, or through, anything that they collide with.

   Maybe I should start driving my 8200# hearse every day.

-denise

[Denise 20352]

> I still think the emphasis nowadays is on style and not outright safety

   This is tongue-in-cheek, right?  Or are there actually people who appreciate the Eurojap look that all new cars have?

-denise

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

Thats like my 81 Chevy pickup!  Inline 6 and 3 on the tree!  Great truck to drive.  I have always liked the mid-60s Chevy sedan like that except it was a total pig to drive.  

You know, all those electric things are nice but they are a pain in the a$$ to have to fix.  Dads 2001 Beetle is great but all those silly computers are worrisome.  I did find out you can order them without electric windows. heheh
Now if you could only order it done like a 1963, then we are really talking!
Besides, who needs heat???

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Densie,

Oh, yes, I have been keeping pace with your exploits.   And, it is nice to see that you are using a coffin as a means of transport, just in case the end is violent.

To make things easier, do they ever dig holes near the finish line, just in case there has to be a quickie burial so the racing can continue with minimum interuptions.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Densie,

If people didnt appreciate the Eurojap look, then why are they buying the Eurojap cars.

Oh, thats right, they are cheaper, better built, and hold their value longer than the "Big Three"

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Eric Maypother CLC #15104]

Hi All,
I always thought about getting an armourmed Cadillac, be good against car jackers, some have ram bumpers, I just wonder about with the ram bumpers and other reinforcements how they would be in a crash seeing how some crumple zones would be eliminated with the armouring plus the added wieght, I was also thinking with certain accidents the rescuers may not be able to get you out of car too easyly with the bullet proof glass and reinforced doors, anyone know about the safty of them? I e-mailed an armouring co. but didnt get a real answer, I see used ones pop up sometimes for around 20K
Thanks,
Eric
1990 Brougham with steel bumpers

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

Hehe I agree Eric.  I think all my 56 would need is bullit proof/resistant glass, puncture proof tires (or tyres for our friends out there in the nether world) and Id have a tank.  Anyone got a spare 88mm around?  

[Denise 20352]

  The Big Three are now making EuroJap cars, which is why they have nothing to offer to the car market.

-d