Air bags: pros & cons

[Mike #19861]

 
 If everyone was consious and alert in their task, yes, most collisions could and would be prevented. In most peoples case, you will be involved in at least one collision in your life. It may be minor to a severe life ending collision. You may beat the odds too, by living in a sparsely populated area and driving with the utmost care and alertness in the most favourable conditions.

 I was rear ended by a mentally absent girl in a Jeep a few years back. I was a sitting duck. I was doing all the right things, but still got nailed. Nothing I could do. This sort of situation is unavoidable, no matter how you drive. The only thing I could have prevented was not being there at that time. But my crystal ball is still in the shop, along with my magic wand and x-ray glasses.

 So, you have to accept the fact that there is a good chance that you will be involved in a collision at anytime anywhere. No matter what you do and how you drive. But you can be consious and aware of what is going on around you and many will be prevented and avoided.

  Mike

[Porter 21919]

Without a doubt, more reliable too for the most part but when it comes to repairs, $$$ ouch.

The vast majority of "accidents" are caused by bad drivers.

We would all  still be better served by a car that has no frills and is engineered to be repaired easily, not one designed by the stylists.

The Corvette is the complete package, but look at the cost.

GM has yet to come out with something revolutionary for the masses that is better than the competition.

Porters rambling 2 cents for the day

[Art #22010]

Would one not want a fighter pilot of an F18 Hornet  to have an ejection seat. The most violent of flight actions at the most dangerous times in the worst of conditions requires a violent act to survive. Yes the pilot has to pull and yes the airbag knows not of the intent or severity of the inpending damage, but it must act quickly. Perhaps in the future there will be other ways. However at this time, they are a work in progress. Thier value has spoken for itself, dispite their failings . Just an opinion. Art

[Jim Smith]

During this discussion of safety devices on modern autos I dont believe anyone has mentioned ABS brakes. I have two occasions where abs brakes I believe have prevented me from being involved in an accident.  Both times a vehicle pulled out from a side road in front of me while I was traveling about 65 and no place to go except to panic stop if possible. One time was with my car with ABS brakes all around and one time was with my S10 pickup with abs on the rear wheels only.  I guess we all know about pickups without any load in the rear switching ends in panic stops. In this case the stop was straight and true.  Jim    

[Johnny]

[The vast majority of "accidents" are caused by bad drivers.]

I would say ALL accidents are caused by bad drivers!

[We would all still be better served by a car that has no frills and is engineered to be repaired easily, not one designed by the stylists. ]

What frills would you do away with?  Automatic Transmission?  Radios?  Heaters?  Air Conditioning?  Dont do away with too many or we will all be riding around in model Ts.

[Porter 21919]

That would be like a 60s Chevy Biscayne with no power anything.

A durable inline 6 engine with manual or auto trans, just basic durable transportation that can be repaired easily, mechanically or autobody.

With the modern day collapsible steering column and crumple zones and padded dash, skip the air bags too. You could have ABS disc brakes at all fours, simplistic 5 mph energy absorbing bumpers, etc. No silly electronic suspensions, onstar, tire air pressure sensors, etc.

Seems like a reasonable concept to me, should sell well too.

Honestly , these new cars are way too complicated and you cant keep them past the extended warranty, ask anyone that has owned late model cars north of 100K mileage.

If new cars are designed like computers: obsolete after three years and destined to be thrown away for a new purchase then so be it. I am not enamored with the new cars from any of the manufacturers. The basic concept would be similar to the Volkswagon Bettle, not that that car didnt leave a lot to be desired. GM needs to lead, not follow Toyota and Honda, or BMW & Mercedes.

Porter:just my take here at the moment, all comments welcome, I dont consider my opinion the last word on any subject, we all enjoy hearing everyones views.

At the very least we are having an important discussion about safe driving.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Art,

Here in Australia, the Air Bags wont deploy unless the severity of the accident is transmitted to the three sensors that are strategically placed within the structure of the vehicle.   One at the front, one under the front seat, and the other one within the structure.

What it does is senses that the amount of crumpling of the crumple-zones and if the distortion is sufficient, and all sensors are reading the smilar movements, then the Air Bags are deployed.

The system also recognises when a vehicle is crashing at any position, and if it is a "off-frontal", sideways prang, or a rear-ender, then the bags arent deployed as they would be useless.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

I rode in a new Malibu MAX today (a sin to call it that but there it is) and it was nice enough.  It had plenty of power up to 60 then got a little weak in the knees; the interior was a blah grey with chrome-like-plastic-substance, and smelled like a new Pampers.  It was well equiped and thoroughly uncomfortable for my frame.  

I do not believe people cannot operate a car safely with a tv or radio, or even a navigation system (as long as they do not have to program it as they drive, which of course they do), but ... and here is the kicker ... given the natural inclination for people to take the easy road, most drivers forget what driving is about and do things like contemplate their day ahead, chat on the phone, or put on makeup in the rear view mirror.  Quite honestly, if something were to happen that is out of the ordinary, like a child running between two parked cars, their speed, and lack of attention would spell tragedy.  Chances are were they really driving defensively, they could avoid it.  Pat, my sons mother, was rearended in Boulder by a California woman on a business trip.  She was looking at the light, and was momentarily confused by the signs so she did not see that Pat was stopped at the right turn waiting on traffic.  BANG!  Her comment?  "I guess I wasnt paying attention...I didnt see you."  And so it goes.

[Mike #19861]

 Those sensors would be called "Discriminating Sensors" (leaving myself open for a classic Tassie rebout). Basically what they ar are gold plated balls held in place by a magnet. When the G-forces in any appropriate direction are severe enough, then the ball is dislodged from the magnet, completing a circuit to the DERM which in turn sends voltage to the "explosive device" which deploys the bag. Its just that sometimes those magnets were not strong enough, or the balls too big in minor collisions and the bags go off. Write off the car and injur, mame or kill the occupant in the process. I have read that the accelerative force of these bags actually approaches 350 mph!

 But with the Gen II bags, they do not deploy as easily, and without the force of the Gen I bags. Now they have smart bags that can vary the force depending on the weight of the occupant. They are much safer in minor collisions in that they are not likely to deploy at all, and when they do, with lesser force. More like the 150 mph quoted in the article.

 Mike

[Eric Kahn clc 20839]

computers in cars are here to stay, they cannot pass the emissions standards without electronic fuel injection and all of its sensors, plus they run better for longer and get better milage to boot

the ONLY way to beat the airbag/ single shoulder belt combination for saftey would be full nascar like harnesses that have to be tailered to each driver and the seat they are in plays a very important part in the formula since it, not the belts, keeps the driver from moving sideways in a crash along with the bars that extend around the sides of the drivers head to keep it from flopping sideways in a crash

I had an accident (my fault) and hit the side of another car in an intersection going maybe 1 mph, I put a crease down the the side of the ladies car (98 mazda 929) that was in both doors and the rear quarter panel, all cosmetic damage, the repair bill was 4700 dollars (just checked with the insurance co, I expected it to be more).  The cost of labor and the added cost of EPA compliance plus the artificial devaluation of cars in the US market causes alot of minor fender benders to become totals even without the cost of replacing the air bags which has come down considerably since all cars now have them, I can buy a replacement steering wheel with and airbag for my brand new Passat for about $450 and that was for a leather covered replacement for my stock non-leather wheel

the only thing I hate about alot of newer engines is the use of rubber timing belts instead of chains which seems to be on a downturn these days and if you have a diesel VW like me, the timing belt breaking will pretty much total the engine so you replace it at the recomended interval and hope for the best

[Porter 21919]

My 90 throttle body SBC nas been bullet proof since new, I didnt say I advocate a return to the inferior carburetor. They did have to tow it back to the dealer the first day to replace the computer.

Timning belts are not a good idea IMHO.

[Denise 20352]

http://www.libertyhaven.com/theoreticalorphilosophicalissues/ethics/suddenimpact.shtml[/quote] TARGET=_blank>http://www.libertyhaven.com/theoreticalorphilosophicalissues/ethics/suddenimpact.shtml[/quote]

   I couldnt read the thing.  The flashing lights were about to give me a seizure.

-denise

[Denise 20352]

  What is the story with these tire blowouts, anyway?  When I was in my teens and tweens, I couldnt afford a new set of tires, so Ive been through many blowouts at various speeds.  They make a racket, so you pull over and stop, either put on the spare or ride down the rim to the next tire shop, depending on whether or not you have a spare.  So why is it that people keep losing control and crashing when their tires blow out?


-denise

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

Because people today are not expecting anything to go wrong.  So when it does, they become over-excited, over react and lose control.  Blame it on the way they werent taught to drive...blame it on the cars, whatever, it is still the drivers fault.  If you lose control of the automobile, it is your fault.  It does not matter if a tire blew or an alien just landed on the hood...the driver is ALWAYS expected to be in control.  No excuses.  

Personally I think all this safety stuff robs the individual of the need to be attentive, not that they are in any case which is the whole problem.  You should always check your tire pressure because it matters when the climate changes.  But with the way life is going, many people are so stressed out even minor things like tire pressure are just that added crap to make life really unbearable.
Life is getting altogether too involved and stupid.

Keep safe, Densie.  

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

More people would check their own tyres if only the tyre inflators were near the fuel pumps, and not way over the other side of the fuel stop.   It is hard enough to have to stop the car at the bowsers, let alone having to drive over to the air and water area.   Time is precious to the masses.

Some of us are lucky enough to have compressors in our own garages and can do that sort of stuff before venturing out into the open.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

That would be nice, but here we have to pay .50 to .75 per use.  I rarely have change so I really could use a compressor in my garage.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Good God!   What happened to Free Air and Free Water??   What is the world coming to??

Still free over here, and still at 99percent of the bowser islands, and windscreen washing squeegees as well.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[David #19063]

Hey Bruce,

Savor that you are still in Gods Country!

Shhhhhh....theyll start charging us for sqeegees and towels soon enough!

[Denise 20352]

NO!!! IM NOT STRESSED!!!

MY LIFE IS NOT INVOLVED!!!  ITS NOT STUPID!!!

Well, OK, maybe a little bit.

I think youre probably right.  Every year when bridges freeze, people panic, slam on the brakes and skid around until they find something to slam into.  A little road hazard training wouldnt hurt anyone.

-densie

[Denise 20352]

   Im old enough to remember when the gas stations sold service instead of beer and lottery tickets.  When you stopped for gas, you could at least be reasonably sure that the routine maintenance items were checked.  Unfortunately, the folks who bought $2 worth of gas, or none at all, and wanted everything checked before they went to the convenience store for gas were instumental in shutting most service stations down.

   We have an air compressor and I love it, except that Im always afraid that the noisy tools will bother the neighbors...even though they come over and inflate their tires sometimes.  You know how neighbors can be.

-denise