"The Modifieds"

[Big Fins]

OK Johnny. I promised Jeff I wouldn't persue this thread further.

But I have to say the food at the hotel breakfast buffet was excellent. Pricy for breakfast but then I consumed my monies worth. Even Glenn Brown told me to take it easy on the kitchen staff and to not work them so hard.

Other meals eaten off property were great. The Riverboat food was gross as was the "Banquet" food. Cold raw chicken is not my idea of banquet food. Then maybe I'm not a Southerner. My idea of a proper meal is Ruths Chris. As you are on the left coast...Burns Steakhouse. Been there yet? Some of the best. Even Outback was excellent Friday night. At half the price, without religious entertainment. I'm glad I walked out when someone started praying at a "NON-DENOMINATIONAL function.

Nuff Said.

Fins

And don't start with that folically challenged stuff. I'm real close to being with you. Besides, I see it as a solar charger for the rest of me.

[Johnny F #662]

The CLC is non denominational, they accept all Cadillacs regardless of use or looks

Then why arent you showing it?

Showing what?  Acceptance by the CLC?

[Johnny F #662]

OK Johnny. I promised Jeff I wouldn't pursue this thread further.


I wish I had a dime for every time I was asked to not pursue a topic on a thread!  I firmly believe that ONLY by discussing a topic, can issues be resolved and things be accomplished.  Take the new membership problem.  Because of the thread on this topic, the board is aware and is going to address the problem.  I think this thread is just as important, as it could very well be a subject that will be instrumental in keeping the CLC going.  Keeping ones head in the sand, never accomplished anything.

But I have to say the food at the hotel breakfast buffet was excellent. Pricy for breakfast but then I consumed my monies worth.


Had I known it was a buffet I might have tried it.  We found a great restaurant for breakfast about 5 minutes from the hotel.  I stopped in at a firehouse and asked if they had any recommendations.


Even Glenn Brown told me to take it easy on the kitchen staff and to not work them so hard.


Sounds like you were doing your job and keeping them in a job

Other meals eaten off property were great. The Riverboat food was gross as was the "Banquet" food.

I did a research of the riverboat on line, and most of the reviews weren't that glowing.  I avoided the riverboat as I did the low country boil.  I just couldn't see how "mass feeding" dining could be that good.  Its not that I am a gourmet or anything, I even thought shipboard Navy chow was good!


Cold raw chicken is not my idea of banquet food.

Valid point.  Again with a "mass feeding" situation the quality off food usually isn't that great.   Again not being a gourmet, I thought the food "passable", of course I am person that never met a buffet I didn't like 




Then maybe I'm not a Southerner. My idea of a proper meal is Ruth's Chris. As you are on the left coast...Burns Steakhouse. Been there yet? Some of the best.

Ruth Chris....Bern's Steakhouse.......sorry haven't been to either, and seriously doubt if I ever will.  Yes they are probably the 2 best steak houses in the area, but I have a real problem spending a months worth of money for one meal.  In addition to not being a gourmet, I am also CHEAP   


Even Outback was excellent Friday night. At half the price,

Ah like minds think alike!  We went there Thursday night and it was great.



without religious entertainment. I'm glad I walked out when someone started praying at a "NON-DENOMINATIONAL function.


Another valid point.  While I personally have nothing against "religious entertainment" or a prayer, I don't think "religious" activities should be part of car club program.




Nuff Said.

Fins

And don't start with that follically challenged stuff. I'm real close to being with you. Besides, I see it as a solar charger for the rest of me.


Welcome to the club, and I don't mean the "Hair Club for Men"

[35-709]

I didn't really go to the Riverboat Dinner Cruise, the Low Country Boil, or the Saturday Awards Banquet for the food, I went to meet and talk with people with basically the same interest as mine --- cars and making new friends --- the camaraderie.  I feel I got all of that, and I was able to find something at each dinner that I could eat to avoid hunger --- the Low Country Boil probably being the best.  Feeding large groups is a challenge indeed.
I don't really mind those that don't like modifieds or those that would only have or prefer a modified car, we're all in the same boat, we like cars or we wouldn't be here.  After 65 years and having heard and seen in print these same discussions and arguments ever since I was a teenager, it is not that hard to understand where both sides are coming from, tolerance is the word to keep in mind here.  Some are better at it than others.  There will always be those that want only factory original cars and restorations, there will always be those that like to modify a little or a lot, and then there are lots of guys like me that just love and appreciate it all, where I think the majority of us are at.  I'd like to have at least one of each, a bone stock beauty like the '55 coupe (Jenkins' I believe) at Savannah, and a modified beauty, something like the black '33 LaSalle resto-rod there, yum!  If we were all just the same one way or the other it would be terribly boring.  I personally am glad both sides (and the middle) exist.  There's room for everyone, like Republicans and Democrats --- GM, Ford, or Mopar --- there will always be differences of opinion ---- but we all live and thrive together.
I personally love this hobby, and most  of the people in it ---- I think that goes for everyone here, at the MCLC, and the other car clubs too.
Geoff       

[Johnny F #662]

I didn't really go to the Riverboat Dinner Cruise, the Low Country Boil, or the Saturday Awards Banquet for the food, I went to meet and talk with people with basically the same interest as mine --- cars and making new friends --- the camaraderie.  I feel I got all of that, and I was able to find something at each dinner that I could eat to avoid hunger --- the Low Country Boil probably being the best.  Feeding large groups is a challenge indeed.
I don't really mind those that don't like modifieds or those that would only have or prefer a modified car, we're all in the same boat, we like cars or we wouldn't be here.  After 65 years and having heard and seen in print these same discussions and arguments ever since I was a teenager, it is not that hard to understand where both sides are coming from, tolerance is the word to keep in mind here.  Some are better at it than others.  There will always be those that want only factory original cars and restorations, there will always be those that like to modify a little or a lot, and then there are lots of guys like me that just love and appreciate it all, where I think the majority of us are at.  I'd like to have at least one of each, a bone stock beauty like the '55 coupe (Jenkins' I believe) at Savannah, and a modified beauty, something like the black '33 LaSalle resto-rod there, yum!  If we were all just the same one way or the other it would be terribly boring.  I personally am glad both sides (and the middle) exist.  There's room for everyone, like Republicans and Democrats --- GM, Ford, or Mopar --- there will always be differences of opinion ---- but we all live and thrive together.
I personally love this hobby, and most  of the people in it ---- I think that goes for everyone here, at the MCLC, and the other car clubs too.
Geoff       

Well said Geoff.  Like yourself I went to the Grand National to be with other car, especially Cadillac, enthusiasts.  I do however think this discussion about modifieds is important, as far as the CLC is concerned, because each year the modifieds are becoming more visible.

I personally think that modifieds should be given the same seal of approval as original cars, including judging and awards.  Initially they could be their own class, since the numbers aren't that many.  The first thing that must be established is when does an original car become a modified?  What is the dividing line?  No easy feat, but once that is established, it should be clear sailing from then on.

[Sled]

I personally think that modifieds should be given the same seal of approval as original cars, including judging and awards.  Initially they could be their own class, since the numbers aren't that many.  The first thing that must be established is when does an original car become a modified?  What is the dividing line?  No easy feat, but once that is established, it should be clear sailing from then on.

Awesome, from the begining i thought you were against modifieds, I deffently agree with what you posted. Modified?... any motor swap, airride/lowering flake paint/primer/non OG color, big fat wide whites, pinstripeing etc... thats pretty easy

[Porter]

I'm wearing my flak jacket now, and I'll need it in a few seconds!

I'm amused at some of the reasons that hot rodders ("modified" in their parlance) have for making a car into a hotrod. First: Saved from a crusher..  I  saved all 11 of my collector cars from crushers, and mysteriously, they're like the factory made them! Nobody forced me to turn them into hotrods. Secondly: I want to drive it.  I have no trouble driving my as-original cars, especially the  Cadillacs. Tey're just great on the highway. They're at home on the highway. Thirdly: You can't get parts for old cars. Check Hemmings, and see just what parts are available. The guy who wants to rebuild a Duesenberg engine can get parts for  even that if he wants them. Parts for vintage Cadillac engines are reasonably easy to find.   

It all comes down to: if a guy wants to make a hotrod out of some car; he'll do it, excuses or no excuses. I can envision the day when there will be no such thing as a factory original car. In days past, wrecked or junked cars were resurrected into racing sleds, and their inhabitants were simply noisy nuisances. Today, hot rodders have lots of money, and they spend it lavishly on hot rods. It's more fun than giving their kids an education. They make sure that the kids don't want an education, which clears the way for the $75K or so for their racing sled.  I've seen near-100 point cars gutted, chassis hacked with different chassis components, the interior outfitted with cheap plastic upholstered seats, dime store instruments, and of course, the "required"  yellow flames on the sheet metal. Artisans, they!

Doug,

Sure you can get parts for a Duesenberg engine if you have Jay Leno's wallet. On his website he had to buy a new head for his Duesenberg engine.

That can guy restore anything with his unlimited funds. He restores most of his cars to factory condition-$$$ no object.

Also builds some whacky modified cars too.

Check out his website and you will be amazed at the cars he has restored. Finally got some Cadillacs too.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/

The Modified Chapter is a Red Herring relative to the CLC. Primarily salvaging unwanted old Cadillacs that aren't worth restoring in respect to the ROI. But many of us have bone stock factory Cadillacs and some restore them for a living. Others add AC or front disc brakes, dual MC for safety, etc.

Once the rust gets so severe you get parts cars, not worth the effort of restoring them. Is it better to strip them down for parts or keep them on the road in some shape or form ? That seems to be the issue here.

Your knowledge of these old Cadillac's is well know and you deserve the utmost respect from everyone here.

Always a pleasure to read your posts and thanks for sharing your wisdom.

This thread is for entertainment value IMO.

Porter

[Johnny F #662]

I personally think that modifieds should be given the same seal of approval as original cars, including judging and awards.  Initially they could be their own class, since the numbers aren't that many.  The first thing that must be established is when does an original car become a modified?  What is the dividing line?  No easy feat, but once that is established, it should be clear sailing from then on.

Awesome, from the beginning i thought you were against modifieds, I definitely agree with what you posted. Modified?... any motor swap, air ride/lowering flake paint/primer/non OG color, big fat wide whites, pinstripeing etc... that's pretty easy

I apologize for any misunderstanding you might have gotten from my initial posts.  Whenever faced with an issue, I first try to explore all avenues of thought before I actually come out and state my position.  To be truthful, I was "fer" the modifieds from the beginning.

I agree with you that classifying a "modified" should be relatively easy.  Correct me if I am wrong but basically a modified is a car that is what might be called "greatly" or fill in your own word, different then when it was delivered from the factory.  I don't think that a person such as myself who replaced the battery on my '85 Eldo with other then a Delco battery would fall in to the modified class, nor with my pin striping.

[Stampie]

I think the owner of a car has the best thought of if it is modified or not.

Stampie

[Doug Houston]

This has been amusing, as I had expected it to be. The wrath of countless was aroused.  My flak jacket is now shredded.

First, if you'd like to use the term, not all of my 11 collector cars are exactly as shipped from the factory. My two non-Cadillacs are a '41 Olds phaeton, and a '41 Chevy convertible. When they were restored, horrors of all horrors, I chromium plated the garnish moldings, a la Cadillac. I used full carpet instead of rubber mats with  carpet inserts. In the days that they were restored, new harnesses were not to be had (early sixties), so I made up pegboards, laid up new harnesses per the original,
and that's what's in the cars. The radios have tubes that are branded other than the original ones in them They have Mallory or Radiart vibrators in them, and most have new capacitors throughout that are of different manufacture than the original. Boy, would judges like to gnaw on that one!!

Well, this could go on and on ad nauseum, and still might. My cars have either their original engines, or ones that are of the same series, as many of our cars have, of necessity. A badly cracked block is a good reason for replacement with a new one, or a good one from another car. The bodies and the chassis of all of them have components that match those from the factory. I'm happy with them that way. I don't need to excel in velocity, sound level, or any other superficial means. Indeed, my cars are my own product. I could have done them in any manner I wanted, but I chose the way I remembered them when new.

I don't need to race with anyone. In my day, I've put hardware into space, upgraded vehicular designs still in production and, of course, restored my own cars and a lot of my radio collection. That's the stuff I have value for. I don't have time for trophies, and the few I've ever had are somewhere in a landfill.

Judging is not my bag. I've judged, and have been judged. Judging is more political than honest. The bigget rollers get the biggest prizes. I hardly have time for the important things in my life. Judging isn't one of them.

This is supposed to be fun. Keep it that way.

[Guidematic]

 Doug,

You have the right perspective here. These cars were bought and restored, or whatever we ant to do with them as a hobby. That is THE most central theme here. A hobby is a diversion from the realities of everyday life. We chose to play with old Cadillacs, or whatever brand of car we admire.

You restored these cars in an era where the influences of today were not even dreamed of. You enjoyed what you did, and came out with a car that you enjoyed topuring with in the events that were part of your club. No doubt a lot of innovation and resourcefulness were required at that time.

Somewhere politics and snobbery entered the scene. Then big money came in. That has changed the face of the hobby forever. But, if that is the hobby as it is that a person admires, then so be it. It still serves it's purpose as a diversion.

I am just a mechanic with a family to support. Not much cash to throw at my cars, but I do what I can and still get a lot of pleasure from them. On top of that, it provides me and the wife with daily transportation, plus I have a couple of hobby/project cars. As a hobby uit works well for me. My cars are far from show pieces, but I still enjoy them. That's the way it should be.

The debates over original, modified or whatever will go on forever. Just as the Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge wars continue unabated. Just don't take it too seriously. It is, afterall, a hobby.

Mike

[Johnny F #662]

Somewhere politics and snobbery entered the scene. Then big money came in. That has changed the face of the hobby forever. But, if that is the hobby as it is that a person admires, then so be it. It still serves it's purpose as a diversion.

Is it just a coincidence that the "politics and snobbery" exists in the CLC club, and not so much in Chevy and Ford clubs?  Would anyone disagree with the fact that at one time, Cadillac was to car to own for "snob appeal"?

[Guidematic]

 Oh yes, there has always been a level of snobbery associated with Cadillacs. Part of the appeal.

But, I have noticed the snobbery quotient much higher in "Other" car clubs for cars of lesser stature.

Now, am I a snob for saying that?

Mike

[Johnny F #662]

Oh yes, there has always been a level of snobbery associated with Cadillacs. Part of the appeal.

But, I have noticed the snobbery quotient much higher in "Other" car clubs for cars of lesser stature.

Now, am I a snob for saying that?

Mike

Lesser stature............himmmmmmm interesting term.  What do you mean by lesser stature?  Cars that cost less then a Cadillac when they were both new? 

[John Fotakis #23436]

Maybe he means Lincolns. I've heard they're sort of lesser. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Maybe he means Lincolns. I've heard they're sort of lesser. 

Gee, I was thinking of Trabrants, or something similar.

Bruce.

[Vince Taliano #13852]

When we switched to "People's Choice" judging in 2003 for Potomac Region car shows, we added a modified class. Since then we have seen quite a few modifieds and a modified won Best of Show for the first time ever at our 2007 Spring Car Show.  Below are pictures of the modified 1947 Convertible Coupe with a 500 Caddie engine.





Prior to 2003, our Region did points judging and it made more enemies than friends for numerous reasons.  Our goal since then has been to emphasize camaraderie not competition and it has been a huge success.  We are at an all-time high in membership and our shows keep growing and growing.  There is plenty of room for all points of view within our club.

What I suggested for Grand National judging regarding modifieds, is to have a special "people's choice" ballot just for the modifieds.  Let all the GN registrants pick one modified as their favorite and give out 1st, 2nd and 3rd place awards.  This accomplishes a couple of things: 1) recognizes the modifieds beyond display only and 2) allows the GN registrants to get more involved with the event. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Vince,

That is one truly beautiful Resto-rod, or Modified Cadillac, or whatever.

One of the huge problems with judging any Modified vehicle is just trying to categorise one against the others, then one might have more things different to another, etc.

That is one of the reasons that we just like to enjoy our vehicles without competition.

Bruce.

[Wayne Womble 12210]

I like two awards.  Peoples or participants choice, and a best engineered.  Some of those cars are very well done and it should be recognized.

[35-709]

"What I suggested for Grand National judging regarding modifieds, is to have a special "people's choice" ballot just for the modifieds.  Let all the GN registrants pick one modified as their favorite and give out 1st, 2nd and 3rd place awards.  This accomplishes a couple of things: 1) recognizes the modifieds beyond display only and 2) allows the GN registrants to get more involved with the event."

I think that is a fine idea.  My vote for first at the Savannah GN would have been the black 1933 LaSalle Limo, second and third (you decide which) would be the 472/500 powered '41 convertible coupe and the Northstar powered '34 convertible coupe.  At any other show where those cars would have been eligible for judging they all could have been strong contenders for 1st place or Best of Show.


Wayne's idea along those same lines is good too.