Oldest Cadillac Dealer

[Terry Wenger CLC # 1800]

I have been told that Roth Cadillac in Erie, PA. is the oldest Cadillac Dealer, having started in 1903.This is also on their website.

Are there any other Cadillac dealers that go back that far?

I have never seen an article on this dealership in the Self-Starter that I can remember and it should be an interesting one if it were done. Does anyone in that area know the history?

Terry Wenger

[Tom Hall 7485]

Roth was certainly there in 1930 (Nineteen-Thirty); how much before that I am researching. They were not always at the same address.  They moved from East 8th Street to French Street before 1931.  Not having copies of the first franchise contracts and not having enough early literature, I can't confirm whether they are the oldest surviving retailer, but it's possible.  They may be the oldest retailer carrying something close to its original name or held by the same family. 

I think it was Tim Pawl who mentioned that some 1903-4 literature lists the first retailers.  I would like to get my hands on copies of it.  The 1931 La Salle Demonstrator, kindly posted on line by the Modified Chapter, shows Erie, PA as a 25+ year "distributor".  It also shows a handful of other cities where there were 25+ year distributors as of 1931.

I submitted the first part of a multi-part article on Cadillac distribution to the Self-Starter about ten days ago.  Part Two is about 85% complete but requires more research.  Stay tuned.

   

[Tim Pawl CLC#4383]

When the next opportunity affords I will check the records at the CLCMRC for those early listed agents (as they were called back then).  My recollection is that there is a dealership in Florida that has been in the same family selling Cadillacs from that same time frame.   I believe the name started with an "N" ,perhaps in the Jacksonville area, but memory escapes me right now.    Tim Pawl

[Mark]

My recollection is that there is a dealership in Florida that has been in the same family selling Cadillacs from that same time frame.   I believe the name started with an "N" ,perhaps in the Jacksonville area, but memory escapes me right now.    Tim Pawl

Are you thinking of "Claude Nolan, Inc."?   They were operating in Jacksonville FL in the early 40s.

[Tom Hall 7485]

Yes, Claude Nolan, Inc. got started around 1906.  However, as far as the La Salle Demonstrator for 1931 was concerned, businesses in Utica, NY; Rochester, NY; Boston, MA; Denver, CO; [Don Lee] in California; and some others were a little ahead of Claude Nolan as  "distributors". 

We may wonder whether that sales literature uses the term "distributor" generally to mean a purveyor, or strictly, meaning a middleman who supplies retailers.  Either meaning is plausible because Cadillac started using middlemen to supply cars and parts very early.

[Tim Pawl CLC#4383]

Thanks guys, that was it; Nolan Cadillac.  I guess my memory isn't as bad as I thought, now if I could just remember where I put my glasses!

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

[Mark]

Thanks guys, that was it; Nolan Cadillac.  I guess my memory isn't as bad as I thought, now if I could just remember where I put my glasses!

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

Tim

Aways look first in the most obvious places - 1) the end of your nose OR 2) on top of your head.

[Johnny F #662]

Speaking of Cadillac dealerships as we were, it is my understanding that in the early years of Cadillac, they sort of really didn't have "dealerships", but "distributors"  I think it had something to do with the comparatively low production numbers of Cadillacs as compared to the rest of GM's line.  From what I was told, Cadillac would send the cars to a distributor in a defined region, such as in Philadelphia where the distributor was Scott Smith Cadillac.  All the other dealers in the area and southern New Jersey had to get their cars through Scott Smith.  I believe that Scott Smith had a dealership in Camden, New Jersey which was also called Scott Smith Cadillac.  As a foot note Scott Smith eventually became Center City Cadillac, and with its demise, Philadelphia was left without a Cadillac dealership within the city limits.

As a disclaimer, this is all second information from a source I deem to be quite reliable.  Maybe some others could shed more light on this topic.

[Tom Hall 7485]

You've got the gist of it, although GM didn't necessarily send the car to the distributor, and Cadillac production was on the high side for the industry in its first years.  That's one of the main reasons Cadillac survived its infancy while so many other horseless carriage makers perished: They were a major player right off the bat because they had more production capacity than most.  They were quite successful without Mr. William Crapo Durant.

It is very difficult to know which retailers were buying new cars from the distributor who had a territory or even where some of those territories extended.

Please look for my article in the Self-Starter sometime next year.

[homeonprunehill]

Now if I could just remember where I put my glasses!

Tim Pawl CLC#4383 quote
Tim


09-27-07
TIM, I like your quote.
Now, if I could only remenber how my favorte goes...Oh, I think I remenber. "Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most".
Good Luck,JIM

[Tim Pawl CLC#4383]

Terry Wenger,   See my posting of earliest Cadillac Agencies under Technical/Authenticity heading.  Roth (Erie,PA) was not listed in 1903 but Murphy Brothers (Erie,PA) was....   Tim Pawl CLC#4383

[veesixteen]

I have copies of some old Cadillac merchandising literature. The first "list" of Cadillac "Automobile Agencies", as they were called then, included 19 of them (that list was current as at 1/1/1903).  When the revised 1903 catalog came out (I'm guessing mid-year) the agencies now numbered 38 and grew exponentially thereafter.  In the 1904 product catalog, for example, 80 agencies were listed; a Jacob Roth is listed as the agency for Erie PA (not before so far as I can tell). I have the Murphy Bros. listed as the Erie agency in the mid-year catalog for 1903.

Contact me if you want a scanned copy of these early agency listings.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have been told that Roth Cadillac in Erie, PA. is the oldest Cadillac Dealer, having started in 1903.This is also on their website.

Are there any other Cadillac dealers that go back that far?

I have never seen an article on this dealership in the Self-Starter that I can remember and it should be an interesting one if it were done. Does anyone in that area know the history?

Terry Wenger

[veesixteen]

As I said in an earlier posting today, the earliest Cadillacs were distributed through Cadillac Automobile Agencies. It is possible that deliveries were centralised at the main agency in Philadelphia (John Wannamaker) prior to delivery to the Erie agency.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of Cadillac dealerships as we were, it is my understanding that in the early years of Cadillac, they sort of really didn't have "dealerships", but "distributors" ... I think it had something to do with the comparatively low production numbers of Cadillacs as compared to the rest of GM's line.  From what I was told, Cadillac would send the cars to a distributor in a defined region, such as in Philadelphia where the distributor was Scott Smith Cadillac.  All the other dealers in the area and southern New Jersey had to get their cars through Scott Smith.  I believe that Scott Smith had a dealership in Camden, New Jersey which was also called Scott Smith Cadillac.  As a foot note Scott Smith eventually became Center City Cadillac, and with its demise, Philadelphia was left without a Cadillac dealership within the city limits.

As a disclaimer, this is all second information from a source I deem to be quite reliable.  Maybe some others could shed more light on this topic.

[Tom Hall 7485]

I think the dealer discussion is better on the general message board, not the technical message board, so I'm going to continue the conversation over here.

You are right, Yann.  Cadillac's customer directed where to ship the car and paid the freight.  Distributors (wholesalers) could direct that the car be sent to them rather than directly to the distributor's customer.  Distributors could also put cars into storage, although most businesses don't like the expense of storage.  So, I suppose Wanamaker could have functioned as a sort of warehouseman for other Pennsylvania agents.

I don't think that Wanamaker was a Cadillac wholesaler.  As you say on your web site, John Wanamaker Company was replaced as agent right away.  And, the La Salle Demonstrator for 1931 says that Philly was then home to a "5-10 year" distributor.  That means Philly wasn't HQ for a distributor before 1921.  So, in 1903 Wanamaker was a retail agent but probably wasn't authorized to wholesale the cars to other retailers.  Whoever was in Philadelphia in the early-to-mid-1920s appears to have been the first distributor there.  I think that would be Neil Cadillac Company.  Does anyone know when and where they opened?

Indeed, the distributorship (not retail agency) at Erie, PA preceded that headquartered in Philly, if the La Salle Demonstrator is correct. 

[Tim Pawl CLC#4383]

Tom Hall,
   If you would like I could go back and list the agencies that received shipments of engines numbered 32 through 100 ( I previously listed through #31). These are as listed in the 1903 vehicle shipment logbook.  Regardless of names of agencies shown in advertisments, this is the absolute gospel as to where they were shipped.   The book also lists how they were configured. ( i.e the code : WM-36-H-W-Blk     stood for Weston Mott axles, 36 tooth rear gear, Hartford Tires, Wilson Body, Black paint.   Whereas, Henry Ford was famous for "any color you want as long as its black",  the first Cadillacs were available in your choice of Black or Maroon.  Tim Pawl CLC#4383

[Tom Hall 7485]

Tim, thank you for your offer.  Let me respond by e-mail.

[Mark]

Whereas, Henry Ford was famous for "any color you want as long as its black",  the first Cadillacs were available in your choice of Black or Maroon.  Tim Pawl CLC#4383

Tim

I generally don't defend HF or his vehicles, but I would wish to clarify that very early Ford vehicles were offered in a variety of colors including red, maroon, blue, green and others.  It was not until 1908 or 1909 with production of the Model T that black was the primary color.  The reason for change (moving away from offering different colors) as I understand it is that the black paint cured faster - important in HFs goal to reduce costs. 

[Tim Pawl CLC#4383]

Mark,
Thanks for input. Yes, it was Model T paint drying time ( I think the actual color was Japan Black) that allowed HF to keep his 1908 assembly line cranking out at maximum capacity.   Before the advent of model year changeovers, often the color of the car denoted whether it was new or not . I believe the Model K  Cadillacs were mostly (standard) Green, and the 1912 Cadillacs were mostly Blue with Black fenders.  Later after the introduction of DUCO fast drying paints , Cadillac advertisements were famous for boasting "33 models in 300 colors".  A recent 2006 accounting of car colors indicated that 60% of all cars produced are either silver,black,white or red.  Take a look at your local Wal-mart parking lot....boring!    The 1960's and 1970's Cadillac color charts are resplendent with Wisteria, Mauve, Terra Cotta, Mandarin, Persian Lime, Cranberry, etc.    So much for progress!    Individuality has been sacrificed for "residual lease value black", "resale red", "safe silver" and "I won't have to keep my car washed gray". 

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

[Tim Pawl CLC#4383]

Any further info on oldest continuously existing dealership?

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

Any further info on oldest continuously existing dealership?

Sewell regularly advertises itself in the on-line Dallas Morning News as "Since 1911" so it has to be one of the oldest.