So I had the owner of a body shop here come to my house and look at my 60 eldo, paint, new floors, told me 7,000$. 2 weeks go by and Ive taken out the interior and lot of stainless. So today I went to see him at his shop and said hey you might want to come over and see all the work Ive done and talk. He said no I dont need to see it, we said $15,000 right? I was in shock. I said No you said $7,000, he said OK lets say $15,000,,, then he said its just like doing a reno in a basement, you never know what you ll find, so plan on a $20,000 budget. I think Im going to part this thing out, IM SO ,,,,,,,
In my experience, body shop folks do NOT want to work on big old cars. No matter what they estimate, they will (genuinely) find some spot they didn't allocate time for in the estimate and the price goes up unexpectedly. The body-shop guy looks bad and the customer is mad. It's a lose-lose situation.
I was just quoted a "minimum" of $7k to paint my 67 Eldorado. By "minimum," the shop meant that I remove *all* chrome -- including bumpers, taillights, stainless trim, little "ELDORADO" lettering, wheel well trim, etc -- before I bring it to the shop. If they have to do *any* prep work, the price goes up. No fancy paint (e.g. metal-flake or pearl or matte) for that price, either. And this is from the shop that worked on the car before and charges the lowest hourly rate I can find.
To be honest, $15k for your car isn't a high price (if the shop does good work). I bet it would take a (good) pro one month of full-time labor to get your car approximately where you want it (that is, with the body straight but all the pieces remaining for you to assemble). That's about 160 hours at $100/hr. And paint (along with all the latest environmental regulations associated with painting) ain't cheap either.
You won't find too many (decent) body shops that will charge "only" $100/hr anymore. The average is closer to $120/hour these days (here in Kansas).
Good luck!
That car needs more than $15K in bodywork/ paint alone. Especially if it's done to a High Standard. LOTS of Hours in Prep, and Prep it what defines the outcome. Good Luck!
Bobby
I'm with Bobby. If I was a body shop operator and I looked at your car, a high estimate or budget would be the only equitable way for a shop to start on it.
Greg Surfas
Jon,
If you still have my phone number please call me.
I do not want to deal with any project cars and I am bailing on my 60 Seville. The drivetrain is now bolted in it to it may be a better time for us to talk.
BR
Brian I appreciate what your saying. But right now I have 16,000 in my 60 deville, maybe I should sell it. I have 16,000 in this one, so Im kind tapped out. But the reason I bought this one is the color. I just dont know what to do right now. You can call me 905 706 2747
I agree with the posts above. No shop that I know of would do the bodywork and paint for $7500.00 on a 60 Seville unless it's dead straight and has no rust, basically scuff and shoot but that type of car does not exist. I got a little scrape on the front fender of my 71 Eldo and the repair estimate and the amount that Hagerty is paying is $2200.00. That's one fender!
You picked an expensive car to mess with. I doubt is $15,000 would even cover it.
I know that I can sell my car on ebay so I will get some new photos of it's current condition and list it with a reserrve that I can live with. I am too busy at work and have virtually no spare time to even drive my other cars let alone spend my time working on one. Looks like I am done with all of that.
Good luck with yours. Remember, you can take your time, do as much as you can do yourself, but don't sell your other one. Once a body shop gets your Seville you won't get it back for at least a year or two, maybe longer.
Brian
I have to agree with Bobby and Greg -- that car will
take a lot more than $15k to bring it up even to a #2
level. Too much rust.
Body shops like quick in-and-out collision work. That
pays the bills and gives them a more predictable cash
flow. A large car like yours taking up space for months
is a project they don't need.
That's why restoration shops charge so much. That's
also why no restoration shop will never give you a firm
quote. Too many unknowns once you get the car down
to bare metal. It's strictly a pay as you go situation until
it's done.
This is at least a $50k "paint job" if you want it done
properly. If you don't have the funds to handle that
then I suggest bail out now before you get in any deeper.
Mike
Jon like the guys are posting there is at least 50k in paint and body doing all the metal work on that car , if you’re not prepared to invest 100k plus into restoring it then don’t spend another dollar on the car . Nobody is trying to be a Debbie downer or bust your dream it’s just reality , If you’re not prepared for a huge investment move on and even if you lose a few bucks now that will be a lot less painful that being in it 50-60 k and being only half way done . Sometimes a small loss is a whole lot better then something that can get out of hand real quick !
Thanks for that. The car needs a roof too and I found a nice one for $500 bucks. I really dont want to do that to the car. Start hacking it. Then I found 2 rear 1/4s,,,more hacking. So here are my thoughts. Maybe I should go real slow. Take it into a shop and just do the floor. I bought 4 pans. Just do the floor for now, and go from there. Hey the trunk is good,,,LOL
It’s a shame , it would be a beautiful car in that color when finished , probably my favorite color if I was going to do another 60 . It’s just that with today’s cost to do a Resto on a car in that condition ,unless a guy has deep pockets and doesn’t care about the cost it just doesn’t make any sense to do it financially . It’s basically impossible for anybody regardless of their skill set to restore a rough car like and not lose half the money they spent on a restoration With today’s costs I have a rule to do any more restorations , if a car isn’t going to be worth 200k minimum after it’s restored it’s just not worth doing financially. Emotionally is a whole different ballgame but financially it makes no sense.
These are BIG cars with lots of ACREAGE, which means lots of time.
:(
Next club I join is going to the the MG club, and I'll buy an MG Midget.
;)
Maybe you could use your existing coupe as a donor body for the eldo.
You could part out all of the Coupe stuff you don’t need. You could fill the holes for the side molding on the Coupe and your eldo would be a life sized template for all of the holes needed for the eldo side trim.
It’s a ton of work but it’s stuff you could do.
Swapping a roof and two quarters is a huge job and will cost a fortune.
So you would end up with a Coupe with Eldo trim. Wouldn’t be the first one I’m sure.
Just mix and match. If your Eldo frame is good you could swap the bodies.
Might sound crazy but if you have the time and space you could try this.
Quote from: 60eldo on September 20, 2019, 08:25:41 PM
So I had the owner of a body shop here come to my house and look at my 60 eldo, paint, new floors, told me 7,000$.
He had dark glasses to make such an offer. This would be the price for painting the car without sheet metal repair.
As an Appraiser from your pictures I see north of 100k to do your 6437H. This includes paint, interior, glass, rubber, drivetrain, electrical, trim, tires and wheel covers.
I recommend that you:
(1) Sell your cars
(2) Buy Brian's Seville
If you do not swim in the correct direction NOW you will drown.
I had a reputable restoration/street rod shop quote me $35K to repaint my '41 convertible. This car was the recipient of a frame-off restoration 30 years ago, so no metal work / rust removal involved (car was finished with multiple coats of lacquer which has crazed (cracked), necessitating removal of all old paint). The quote was for exterior surfaces only, and with me removing all chrome and trim beforehand.
Just going from your pictures, your Eldo is going to be twice as much work. So $50K dosn't sound like too much. And $20K would be a bargain!
Unfortunatly it's real easy to get upside down on these cars, even a high value car like a '60 Eldo. Most of the cost is labor. Have you thought about tackling the job yourself?
I worked for 1½ years in a restoration shop after retiring from my day job in '03. One day a guy brought in on a trailer a '60 Ford Starliner which laid around his property for years and which he said he wanted restored. It's condition was similar to your Eldo. The shop owner didn't want to touch it, but the guy's wife was a friend of his wife and she told a sad tale about how it was the car in which they first dated when young, etc. The shop owner finally consented with no estimate.
Me and a co-worker started taking it apart and it became quickly apparent that $50K would be a minimum to do the job. The plot thickened when the shop owner saw an ad in Hemmings for an identical '60 Ford Starliner in excellent running condition for only $10K or so. It was only 200 miles away and the only difference was its body color was white, while the car in the shop was black. They both even had the same blue interior. The shop owner proposed to the car owner that he buy that car, that we'd paint it black for 5K or so and everybody would be happy. The car owner refused and we stopped working on the car. Thankfully, the guy and his wife lost interest and took it away.
Unfortunately I agree with what all of you have said. I’m working on a ‘33 Phaeton right now (Chevy) and even that without a roof and without any rot issues is looking like a $20,000 paint job + around $6,000 in paint/etc. As a result I may learn to paint myself!!!
This has really become a “rich mans†hobby and that’s too bad. I got into it back in the late ‘70’s with buying 5 ‘58 Cadillacs and parted them out then buying my ‘59 Fleetwood for $1,250! Rust free Arizona car. I had the roof repainted on that 5 years ago at $3,000!
This is not good but the “trades†somewhere along the way became jobs nobody wanted and now there are so many unfilled jobs that businesses can’t fill. So even basic knowledge labor rates are over $100/hour and true craftsman can be double that! Honestly, if you cant do the mechanical and body work on these cars yourself you’re upside down before you even start. Very sad.
And lets not start on the price of chrome work or even basic stainless steel polishing.....
I think a real issue for Jon now is how to even get out from underneath this pit now that he’s done all this disassembly already and uncovered the major metal issues.....
I wholeheartedly agree that Brians car offers a far far better option and Jon would still be ahead of the game.
The only good about this car is the frame and engine is matching #s. Its very complete, tri-power, air breather, criuse control, P trunk, PW,PL, A/C, all stainless trim is there and 4 eldo hub caps.
I've been quoted $6000 to rechrome my 1937 Series sixty grill and the left and right hood side panel inserts-- and these parts a VERY nice with no pitting anywhere.
You can easily imagine what the chrome bill alone would be for your car.
As a Restoration shop owner for near 30 years now I agree with all those here with their assessment of your project Eldo. Your car will cost over $100K to do. My ballpark estimate is right in line with others who estimate your car's rust repair, bodywork, and paint alone at over $50k. Probably well over that considering floors, rockers, misc tabs, inner pieces and panels not available and needing to be fabricated for structural integrity.
Not to be a wise guy, BUT... why or why didn't you get (even pay) a qualified resto shop to look at the car BEFORE the decision to purchase was made.
As a shop owner for over 30 years I've probably talked customers out of doing more cars than I actually have done. ;D
Brians suggestion. Maybe take this body, which I have about $20,000 in it, and put it here, the body is good, great floors, roof. Would it still be considered an eldo?
Put the body where? On the frame of the Seville?
ya, but I dont think I will
Quote from: Chuck Patton on September 21, 2019, 04:46:35 AM
As an Appraiser from your pictures I see north of 100k to do your 6437H. This includes paint, interior, glass, rubber, drivetrain, electrical, trim, tires and wheel covers.
I recommend that you:
(1) Sell your cars
(2) Buy Brian's Seville
If you do not correct your course NOW you will drown.
BINGO! I'm not an appraiser, BUT every single word that Chuck is saying IS TRUE. If your heart is totally into a '60 Eldo, then buy the best example of that car that you can find out west and afford now.
To continue with what you have is for sure a $100K ++ proposition
Rock 8)
Quote from: cadillac ken on September 21, 2019, 09:46:17 AM
I've been quoted $6000 to rechrome my 1937 Series sixty grill and the left and right hood side panel inserts-- and these parts a VERY nice with no pitting anywhere.
You can easily imagine what the chrome bill alone would be for your car.
As a Restoration shop owner for near 30 years now I agree with all those here with their assessment of your project Eldo. Your car will cost over $100K to do. My ballpark estimate is right in line with others who estimate your car's rust repair, bodywork, and paint alone at over $50k. Probably well over that considering floors, rockers, misc tabs, inner pieces and panels not available and needing to be fabricated for structural integrity.
Not to be a wise guy, BUT... why or why didn't you get (even pay) a qualified resto shop to look at the car BEFORE the decision to purchase was made.
As a shop owner for over 30 years I've probably talked customers out of doing more cars than I actually have done. ;D
Every single person on this forum NEEDS to listen to Ken Caskey !!!!
He, for sure, knows
exactly what he is talking about, being the owner/operator of Kid Darrin in Melbourne, FLA. Which, a shop like his, may be blasphemous to some, but NOT to ME... Ken also frequently writes for a local publication here called Mike Kelly's Cruise News, which I have always enjoyed reading his articles... Look it up on Google, it's easy to find. Like: the top ten things that tell the world you're a car guy, for example?? Nice to see you here Ken
Rock 8)
Jon , first I’ll give credit for wanting to do a restoration, it’s just that you started with the worst example of this model that you could find . The bad part is that you’ve already turned a 16k investment into a 8 k pile of parts . You will lose money on this car but look at it as a small loss and not a huge loss where this car would have taken you . Do not even give another thought of using your 20k coupe as a donor for this car , that would be an expensive donor car . If the colors on Brian’s car are not right for you then wait till the right Seville pops up for you . You could sell your coupe and part out the Seville and when the right Seville comes up you will be ready to make a play for it at that time .
All original '60 ELS just sold at Auburn just shy of $50K which wouldn't scratch the surface and wouldn't begin to compare when finished no matter how expensive the restoration.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/af19/auburn-fall/lots/r0143-1960-cadillac-eldorado-seville/795371
"Buy the best and have no regrets"
Jon
The car that Eric mentioned is Body #384. It is on Ebay with a Buy Now of $69,900.
Chuck thats $100,000 in my money,
Jon,
All of the advice given has been sound advice. The Seville you have purchased is going to absolutely consume hours and hours of labor and uncounted stacks of your dollars, and likely a piece or two of sanity.
If your dream car is a '60 Eldorado Seville I would strongly urge you to find a better example. If your dream car is the one you bought then you are going to need to do most of the work yourself.
Be honest and ask yourself...... " Do I want to work on THIS car? Or do I want to drive a '60 Eldorado Seville? I'm certain that working on it for eons and at huge expense is no match for driving one that requires much less work.
My advice is to reassemble the one you have, make as many improvements as your own efforts will allow, and re-list the car for sale. I would then investigate Brian's '60. I'm certain you will be much happier and likely driving it much sooner than if you continued on with your current '60.
When I was searching for my last Cadillac I found all kinds of "deals". I started researching cost to correct known issues on the examples of cars I was looking at and the realization was : 1. the only deals were in fact, bad deals. 2. I want to drive it as much as possible and not work on it as much as possible.
I honestly don't know anyone that would rather work on a car than drive their car.
Here is a scenario that I have given thought to......
Me: " How was your weekend?
Friend: "Awsome!"
Me: "What did you do?"
Friend: " I took mom out for breakfast Saturday morning with the top down on the Eldorado. Saturday afternoon I took the Eldorado to a car show, I was the only one there driving a Cadillac! Saturday night I took the kids to get ice cream at the local hot spot, top down of course! Sunday morning cruised to that 50's diner for breakfast. Sunday afternoon I loaded everyone into the car and went to the apple orchard to hangout for awhile. What about you? How was your weekend?
Me: " Oh, it was fine I guess. I spent the entire weekend in the garage working on the car"
How do imagine your weekends? In the garage watching your money and time dissipate at an alarming rate? Or do you imagine your weekends watching your gas gauge drop as the tiny littleT-Rexes swimming around in the fuel tank get eaten by the V8 under the hood?
What is the story on your Coupe? If your not in love with it why not list it for sale to help offset the cost of your dream car?
Terry
Quote from: SixDucks on September 21, 2019, 05:39:24 PM
1. the only deals were in fact, bad deals. 2. I want to drive it as much as possible and not work on it as much as possible. I honestly don't know anyone that would rather work on a car than drive their car.
I've also come to the conclusion that basically, there are no deals on anything. Whether it be Cars, Real Estate, Guitars, whatever. If it was such a great deal, it's usually an inside deal to a Family member or friend, so it's most likely already been passed over by others. You just have to do your homework, purchase at a price within the budget, make your peace, and hopefully buyer's remorse doesn't set it. I'm guilty myself of overlooking due to excitement, and wind up in over my head. EVERYBODY has done this in their lifetime.
I guess I'm going to burst your bubble by letting you know that I actually enjoy working on cars more than driving them. It's the satisfaction of overcoming something. Mind you, I didn't say toiling over a losing proposition for hours on end without any light at the end of the tunnel. In that case, Driving would be more appealing.......
Bobby
Bobby,
No worries you haven't "burst my bubble" you're an anomaly. I get it though, I do enjoy working on my cars, but I much prefer driving them. You remember don't ya..... the first 16 years waiting to drive one. No one I know waits that long to work on one. ( At least not with the same anticipations).
Terry
P.S.
Bobby,
There are still deals to be found when looking for guitars.
Maybe these high cost body shops depends on where you live. I just got my Eldorado out of the body shop today. I had both rear filler fender panels replaced. I bought them myself on eBay.
My body guy charged 200 to install and paint. The paint was 100.
Although my paint on the rest is in very good condition, I asked him what he would charge if I wanted to paint the entire car. His price was 2500
It might be worth shipping it to save the money if it’s that high.
Melinda
Quote from: babywantsbling on September 21, 2019, 10:16:16 PM
My body guy charged 200 to install and paint. The paint was 100.
Those are Third World Country prices maybe around the early 80's......Here in NJ, that's lunch money!
Bobby
Quote from: Bobby B on September 22, 2019, 12:21:00 AM
Those are Third World Country prices maybe around the early 80's......Here in NJ, that's lunch money!
Bobby
Not 1980s price, paid that today and I don’t think Pensacola is a third world country: at least not yet. ;)
$ 2500.00 to paint a car? I just don't believe it. Or the paint will be nice at 20 meters but not nearer.
Quote from: babywantsbling on September 22, 2019, 12:57:19 AM
Not 1980s price, paid that today and I don’t think Pensacola is a third world country: at least not yet. ;)
I'm a little over 100 miles straight across the state. Lemme know when you get it painted, I want to see this for myself.
A shop local to me wanted $500 to R&R the rear fillers, clean them up and paint them. I bought the fronts, the small ones under the headlights and the rears with the license plate filler for $450 from the manufacturer about 5 years back.
I was in the process of replacing the rears when I had to make a move decision and I wasn't going to drive the car 200 miles with nothing there.
2500 doesn’t even cover the cost of quality materials to do a proper paint job . Is this guys name Earl Scheib by any chance ? 😂
Melinda, I'll bet your car is not full of rust holes. The starting point makes a huge difference as most of the money is in prep. Paint costs are much higher than they used to be though.
I'm paying ~$5K for my work (PPG Persian Lime Firemist) which included stripping the car to metal first (exterior surfaces only -- not a "frame-off"). My car was arrow-straight and rust-free but had bad prior paint jobs (crazing/checking). The body shop felt that stripping first was the safest way to proceed. http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=154660.msg442322#msg442322
For a simple sand-and-spray paint job, I might be able to approach Melinda's price in my area. Overhead costs (land/taxes/labor) differ wildly across the country. My main criteria for a body shop is to find someone that is communicative and enthusiastic about the project and then look at some examples of their work. Price is secondary.
As with anything as the quality goes up the price goes up . There’s a world of difference between a 20k paint job and a 5k paint job . These cars weren’t what people call laser straight from the factory they have to be worked to be laser straight . Door , hood , fender gaps weren’t precise from the factory they have to be made that way . Paint doesn’t lay super flat out of the gun it has to be worked to that stage after it’s painted . Look at any new car they all look shiny and perfect but if you really take a close look at them the body panels are wavy as an ocean and the paint is so orange pealed it’s disrespectful to oranges . It’s not magic , materials are expensive and quality takes time and concours takes an obscene amount of time and time equals money . So for lesser money you’re either getting lesser materials or lesser time .
Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 22, 2019, 08:45:58 AM
2500 doesn’t even cover the cost of quality materials to do a proper paint job . Is this guys name Earl Scheib by any chance ? 😂
Absolutely....My best friend owns a shop that does work for Pebble, Amelia, Gooding, etc. There's just no way...And if it's any shade of red, almost double it. If you're shooting a high end product like Glasurit, etc., there's no way you're stripping and painting a car for that kind of money. Nice paint jobs could go 20K plus depending on the amount of work, and we're not talking rust repair yet. On top of that, most Cadillacs are twice as big as any other car. A friend of mine just paid 12k to paint an MGB and he thought that was a deal, because the shop owner used it as filler when they were slow. Most cars with some panel/ metal work, rust repair, and paint, wind up in the 50K range when you're done. You're fooling yourself if you expect high quality work at a bargain price. You usually get what you pay for, and for $2500.00 you'll probably be able to surf down the side of the car......
Bobby
I had a 1968 Eldo trunk resprayed for $25.00. How?, I bought the rattle cans of close matching paint at a parts store and did it myself. The customer had a rear end collision and he supplied a green trunk on his white Eldo. To make this temporary situation less painful, I sprayed the green trunk white in about ten minutes. That way from 100' away people would not see it. This way he can take a few months to shop a good paint job, which will be every bit of $10,000
You get what you pay for, no body shop is going to repaint a car for a couple hundred dollars and exist to remain in business paying insurance, rent, and earn a profit to live on. If there were $200 quality repaint shops out there, every one would get their car re-painted every year instead of detailing it.
Back to the 1960 Cadillac, yes money will be lost on this, and for hobby cars there are very few deals out there. A car this far rusted is probably best scrapped after all the good parts are removed. You can make a Seville out of the coupe with the good body, I probably would do that. In so doing, it will just make your Coupe nicer looking, not near Seville money. And accordingly I would only do the visual things such as the stainless trim, interior (if Coupe interior needs replacement), and the tri-carb set up, and ad ac if it does not already have it.
In 2005 the former owner of my 1970 red DVC paid 9k for a new paint job over a rust and dent free body. The paint job has a few chips on the hood from highway driving, but after 14 years and 45k miles it still looks wonderful. 7k for all that rust repair and body work - crazy low.
Many people better than all of us on the forum combined have tried to buy that fixer up car for low cost, restore it, and own a car worth more than they have in it - and no one has succeeded (unless someone was taken advantage of along the way). As true as the way to make money in stocks is buy low and sell high, the most economical purchase of a classic car is to buy the best you can afford.
Best of luck in your resolution.
The amount of agonizing over a paint job is proportional to your Grand Car Plan.
If you're intending to park your prized possession in the Louvre (and you've got a big, fat wallet), then ante up thousands of $$$ … just for paint. Add tens of thousands of $$$ for prep work and a few thousand $$$ just for the labor to apply the paint (and clear coat and clean up and reassembly).
However, if you just want to get a car from (unintended) multiple colors to a single color and drive it for a few years, you might be OK with a MAACO job.
This guy got his ex-police Crown Vic MAACO-ized and he's happy -- https://youtu.be/V4j2aJIxppI
In my case, I've got waaaaaaay more than $16k invested -- both in $$$ and in my own labor -- in the Eldorado. Admittedly, I'm one of those guys who likes to work on cars, but there is a limit. After three years, maybe I'm at that limit? So I'm thinking that a MAACO job might, at least, seal up the work that's been done (protecting the new primer from UV deterioration), get the car all one color again, and look OK from 10 feet. Or maybe I'll give it a paint job it myself?
If the paint lasts only three years, that's fine because I'm going to continue working on the other areas (interior and electronics) and a cheap paint job will alleviate my paint worries for that stretch of time.
In other words, my car is my Experiment. It will continue to change over time. As it changes, I won't be afraid to drive it because I might scratch the paint.
So there ya go. If you're completely invested in "doing it right," make friends with your local banker. But if you're more realistic about your vehicle's present condition and short-term future, then maybe you can "get what you need" and get on with life.
Quote from: Rockfish39 on September 21, 2019, 11:05:24 AM
Every single person on this forum NEEDS to listen to Ken Caskey !!!!
He, for sure, knows exactly what he is talking about, being the owner/operator of Kid Darrin in Melbourne, FLA. Which, a shop like his, may be blasphemous to some, but NOT to ME... Ken also frequently writes for a local publication here called Mike Kelly's Cruise News, which I have always enjoyed reading his articles... Look it up on Google, it's easy to find. Like: the top ten things that tell the world you're a car guy, for example?? Nice to see you here Ken
Rock 8)
Thank you Rock for the kind words. ;)
Quote from: 67_Eldo on September 22, 2019, 10:26:25 AMIf the paint lasts only three years, that's fine because I'm going to continue working on the other areas (interior and electronics) and a cheap paint job will alleviate my paint worries for that stretch of time.
Valid point. Just consider that the cheap paint job will need to be stripped off before a quality paint job is applied.
BTW, my $5K price for paint is not all-inclusive. In addition to the car starting without rust or dents, I delivered it to the body shop completely de-trimmed with interior pulled. When I get it back, I still have a lot of re-assembly work ahead of me (work that I wouldn't entrust to a body shop anyway as this is the area where they always take shortcuts). I also didn't include the money spent to straighten and polish trim pieces. For a body/restoration shop to do all that work would easily exceed $10K even in my low-cost area. Also, note that you don't have to paint the roof on a convertible.
I specifically don't pay for a "show-quality" cut-and-buff after a paint job. In my experience, for a driver that I want to last a long time, leaving the as-sprayed finish (like factory) is the way to go. This is based upon owning cars finished both ways.
Your car, your money, your goals, your preferences.
Quote from: hornetball on September 22, 2019, 11:31:28 AMJust consider that the cheap paint job will need to be stripped off before a quality paint job is applied.
I've already considered it. :-)
As I said, the low-$ paint job primarily gives me protection from UV radiation and further rust. If there's more paint to remove, that's OK because I've already straightened out the problematic bits so I know that nothing bad will happen out of sight.
And a 67 Eldorado looks so good that even now in its "rat-rod" phase people come up to me in parking lots, pause, and say, "That's a *damn* beautiful car." So I'm not worried about casual passers by picking nits about tiny flaws in low-budget paint.
So just to fill you guys in. Ive been looking for a white or sienna rose eldorado for about 2 yrs and nothing. But one day a white coupe deville came up and didnt look bad so I bought it, settling. Then about a year later this eldo came up on ebay and was just listed maybe an hour. So I got really excited, didnt look at the car and didnt send anyone to. THAT WAS STUPID. But I felt I had to act fast or loose it. So I phone the owner and asked what he wanted, I thought 12,000 wasnt bad, so did bought it. I have no patience, been like that all my life. I mean Im in Toronto and its not like I could just fly there in an hr. I took a chance, rolled the dice , and lost.
Jon , you had a few guys here trying to warn you about the condition of this car and what it would take to build I it but as you say you let your impatience cost you this time . We’ve probably all done the same thing once or twice at least I know I have so all you can do is take a breath , regroup and decide what you really want . If you want an eldo then sell the coupe sell the parts gather up the money and wait for the right car . Brian’s car is nice but if you don’t like the colors you’ll just have another car you’re not happy with . A sienna rose might not pop up all that often but a white Seville can be found with a little work and some luck . So take a step back and decide what you really want and wait for it that way you will have a car that you want to keep forever .
Quote from: hornetball on September 22, 2019, 09:15:48 AM
Melinda, I'll bet your car is not full of rust holes. The starting point makes a huge difference as most of the money is in prep. Paint costs are much higher than they used to be though.
I'm paying ~$5K for my work (PPG Persian Lime Firemist) which included stripping the car to metal first (exterior surfaces only -- not a "frame-off"). My car was arrow-straight and rust-free but had bad prior paint jobs (crazing/checking). The body shop felt that stripping first was the safest way to proceed. http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=154660.msg442322#msg442322
For a simple sand-and-spray paint job, I might be able to approach Melinda's price in my area. Overhead costs (land/taxes/labor) differ wildly across the country. My main criteria for a body shop is to find someone that is communicative and enthusiastic about the project and then look at some examples of their work. Price is secondary.
It does not have any rust or holes. In fact it doesn’t need paint at the moment. He installed and painted the filler pieces. And I just wanted to know out of curiosity if and when I ever wanted to paint the whole car how much it would cost. That was the price he gave me. 2500
He works full time at a major body shop. But also has a huge shop of his own on his property. He’s just a good ole boy from Alabama. He loves what he does and doesn’t charge a lot I guess. On another note. Speaking of differences in price from state to state or even county to county, I have a cat that needed hip surgery, other people in other states told me it would be 1000 to 3000 for his surgery. My vet here only charged 280.
Again, it just depends on where you live.
John
The Eldo specific parts on your car are worth almost what you paid for the car. Don’t beat yourself up. The tri power setup with air cleaner is $3000. All of the Seville stainless is about $5000 including the rocker moldings.
The VIN follows the chassis number. You could take the body off of the frame and take your time and restore the chassis. Then take that solid Coupe and put the body on the frame. By the time you sell off the leftover parts you will have your money back and you will have the car you want.
It’s a lot of work and you will need a lot of space but it’s a way to make the car what you want. Unless you are trying to build a CLC GN winner or AACA Senior I’d build it your way. Consider all that’s been written here and chose a path. There are no right or wrong answers. You pick what you want to do.
Brian
Quote from: 60eldo on September 22, 2019, 12:12:05 PM
So just to fill you guys in. Ive been looking for a white or sienna rose eldorado for about 2 yrs and nothing. But one day a white coupe deville came up and didnt look bad so I bought it, settling. Then about a year later this eldo came up on ebay and was just listed maybe an hour. So I got really excited, didnt look at the car and didnt send anyone to. THAT WAS STUPID. But I felt I had to act fast or loose it. So I phone the owner and asked what he wanted, I thought 12,000 wasnt bad, so did bought it. I have no patience, been like that all my life. I mean Im in Toronto and its not like I could just fly there in an hr. I took a chance, rolled the dice , and lost.
Jon,
I have a friend that lives up your way. Oakville On. She has a winter condo down in the Tampa area and she was my neighbor and best friend when I used to live down there. Anyway long story, short. He was a car collector. Kept them all up in Canada except this one Eldorado that he kept down here. He died a couple of years ago and
She wanted me to have that car. So that’s what I have now. Anyway she still has 8 or 9 cars up there that she wants to get rid of. I have no idea what they are but if you want to talk to her, I can put you in touch. Maybe she has something you want.
Let me know. Thanks Melinda
Quote from: babywantsbling on September 22, 2019, 03:28:43 PM
Speaking of differences in price from state to state or even county to county, I have a cat that needed hip surgery, other people in other states told me it would be 1000 to 3000 for his surgery. My vet here only charged 280.
Again, it just depends on where you live.
I need to move ;D ;D ;D.....
Bobby
Good luck with your decision making...
Sunk money fallacy:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Concorde_effect
I have had to get the key decision maker to ‘unwind’ a project several times.
Jon whatever you do not use your coupe as a donor . If somebody has a donor body it would be worth 5k or so so why would you take a 20k car and turn it into a
donor car ? You could sell the car and find a body for less money if you decide to go that route , my advice would be to sell what you have and wait for the right Seville to come along . Only continue on this car if you have the real finances to continue .
Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 22, 2019, 06:17:29 PM
Jon whatever you do not use your coupe as a donor . If somebody has a donor body it would be worth 5k or so so why would you take a 20k car and turn it into a
donor car ? You could sell the car and find a body for less money if you decide to go that route , my advice would be to sell what you have and wait for the right Seville to come along . Only continue on this car if you have the real finances to continue .
I agree, unless you have lots of time to sell, box, ship, and deal with people for quite some time. You know as soon as you make a decision, the right car will pop up. Murphy's law. When you're not looking is when it happens.......
Bobby
Quote from: chrisntam on September 20, 2019, 10:51:14 PM
These are BIG cars with lots of ACREAGE, which means lots of time.
:(
Next club I join is going to the the MG club, and I'll buy an MG Midget.
;)
Austin Healey Sprite. :P
Quote from: cadillac ken on September 22, 2019, 10:59:40 AM
Thank you Rock for the kind words. ;)
Ken, What would make your shop blasphemous?
I red your writings whenever I can get a copy of Cruise News, usually when I go to Old Town, which is not as often as before.
Perhaps you can recommend a good local chrome shop? I'm NE of Tampa, but can get all the way over to the gold coast if necessary.
Quote from: 76eldo on September 22, 2019, 03:48:57 PM
John
The Eldo specific parts on your car are worth almost what you paid for the car. Don’t beat yourself up. The tri power setup with air cleaner is $3000. All of the Seville stainless is about $5000 including the rocker moldings.
The VIN follows the chassis number. You could take the body off of the frame and take your time and restore the chassis. Then take that solid Coupe and put the body on the frame. By the time you sell off the leftover parts you will have your money back and you will have the car you want.
It’s a lot of work and you will need a lot of space but it’s a way to make the car what you want. Unless you are trying to build a CLC GN winner or AACA Senior I’d build it your way. Consider all that’s been written here and chose a path. There are no right or wrong answers. You pick what you want to do.
Brian
Good words, Brian.
But man that car is a real rust bucket. I gave away a well optioned 1970 Fleetwood (to my brother) that had less rust than that.
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on September 22, 2019, 08:27:28 PM
Perhaps you can recommend a good local chrome shop? I'm NE of Tampa, but can get all the way over to the gold coast if necessary.
Space Coast Plating, Melbourne, FL. Excellent Work, Quick Turnaround, Good prices............
Bobby
http://spacecoast-plating.com
Space Coast also did all of my work on Big Red, my '73 Caribou, and my 1950 Jaguar Saloon. I live south of Melbourne, Space Coast is about 45/50 minutes from my home, makes it very handy and I recommend their work.
Thanks. I heard good things about space coast before. Glad they are well regarded.
Nash -one of those can fit in our glove boxes. :P
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on September 22, 2019, 08:27:28 PM
Ken, What would make your shop blasphemous? ...
Hi Mike, I'm the person that made that statement. There are SOME people in the club that believe that ANY deviation from all original stock is like some form of blasphemy. Like in: The Cadillac motor car
has to be completely in "as delivered condition" down to the factory original head markings on all fasteners, ect. Therefore, pack your bags and go to the modified chapter, and so on...
I've seen these same personalities many times with the 'Vette kooks and the 409 Chevy kooks.
The Kid Darrin shop build cars of all kinds. Not just stockers. Namely hot rods, street rods and whatever lies in between. It's a business, like others of it's kind. He's in it to make a living not to make some sort of temple that exclusively caters to the all original stock guys... That's why I said what I did.
I personally have no problem with it, and never will because I think that the greater infraction is to stifle the ability, the creativity, the talent and the artistry of doing your own thing.
I'm not a musician, but a good quote from Bob Seger comes to mind when talking about this. "If youre ever going to make it in this business, you'll never do it playing other peoples songs"
Rock 8)
Lou......that was sooooooo very well said! Thanks for putting it so simply.
Jeff
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on September 22, 2019, 08:27:28 PM
Ken, What would make your shop blasphemous?
I red your writings whenever I can get a copy of Cruise News, usually when I go to Old Town, which is not as often as before.
Perhaps you can recommend a good local chrome shop? I'm NE of Tampa, but can get all the way over to the gold coast if necessary.
Funny, I'm taking some chrome to Space Coast Plating today. As others have said, I use them a lot with very good results. The pieces I'm taking them today are hand made and I trust them to not farkle them up. They are irreplaceable considering the hours I spent making them.
I'd recommend giving them a visit.
Regards, Ken
Quote from: Rockfish39 on September 23, 2019, 07:41:45 AM
Hi Mike, I'm the person that made that statement. There are SOME people in the club that believe that ANY deviation from all original stock is like some form of blasphemy. Like in: The Cadillac motor car has to be completely in "as delivered condition" down to the factory original head markings on all fasteners, ect. Therefore, pack your bags and go to the modified chapter, and so on...
I've seen these same personalities many times with the 'Vette kooks and the 409 Chevy kooks.
The Kid Darrin shop build cars of all kinds. Not just stockers. Namely hot rods, street rods and whatever lies in between. It's a business, like others of it's kind. He's in it to make a living not to make some sort of temple that exclusively caters to the all original stock guys... That's why I said what I did.
I personally have no problem with it, and never will because I think that the greater infraction is to stifle the ability, the creativity, the talent and the artistry of doing your own thing.
I'm not a musician, but a good quote from Bob Seger comes to mind when talking about this. "If youre ever going to make it in this business, you'll never do it playing other peoples songs"
Rock 8)
And to be sure we do AACA restorations too. We have a 1960 T-Bird that is owned by a client that has photographed every bolt and cataloged where it is used, the length, and thread-- whether it is seen or not. And still he admires the custom work immensely.
His words: "Restoration is easy. You take it apart fix it, repaint it, or replace it but it all goes back together exactly as the factory did it. But the custom work you do on these old 30's and 40's cars, the making of parts, the making them all fit and work together with A/C, new engines, power accessories, now that's way more difficult and very admirable."
For comparison to the OP, - THIS is a car that needs a $15K paint job this winter.
The $7K roof restoration was done last winter.
Budget accordingly.
\m/
Laurie
Not to rub salt in your wounds, Jon, but this is for sale on Facebook for $22,500.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1381636982152385/permalink/2353509701631770/
Wheres the nuce,,I wish I could spell,,I dont bee leeve it
Turn on your spell checker. It's a built in app on your browser. I think the forum software uses one also.
No need for a noose, just patience. The right car always comes along at the right price, you just have to sometimes wait.
That pink with white 1960 Seville is too good to be true, even for a coupe. Something is not right. Or it already sold in about 15 minutes. That could be bought and resold for a handsome profit if it was real.
It has the wrong hubcaps the interior is wrong so it’s priced right at 22k . Buy it for 20 and it’s a good buy to put back right . Would have made a way better starting point than the eBay car for 12 . You have to remember even finished a 60 Seville is only going to bring 45 k or so , so this car is priced right at 20k put another 25k in it and have a nice driving car . 60 Seville’s just don’t bring big money when you can get 60 Biarritz s all day long under 100 k.
The worst part is, Ray...You have just a '60. ;)
Im with Scott I dont believe that price. You ever look at Trivot, a BS site look at their prices. Anyway mine is nicer. LOL
High grade low mileage all original '60 ELS recently hammered at RM/Auburn for $45K (+ 10%) so all in at under $50K which wouldn't begin to touch the cost of a full blown resto therefore the wisdom of restoring one of these cars becomes a questionable proposition. And of course no restoration will ever be the same, nor have the same appreciation potential as a highly preserved original with solid credentials/provenance.
As has been pointed out, the cost of restoring a convertible is the same (or even less) as a hardtop (all things equal), the decision of whether to restore this year and model is something that should be pondered carefully. Maybe a '59 ELS the argument can be made but to justify a '60 involves some serious soul-searching.
While the '60 that Dan posted would probably have been a better bet, there are no interior photos and interior work is the most tedious and where things really start getting expensive - particularly when OEM spec & quality is insisted upon. Speaking for myself, I generally shy away from anything where the interior is less than presentable as-is.
Hey guys Im still looking for a coupe shell no rust,,,,anyone got one? If I cant find one then I think Im gonna just patch this thing up and make it a #7-8 driver. 905-706-2747 Jon
There are pictures of the interior on Facebook , wrong pattern and looks like it was done in vinyl so the car is priced right at 22 k . Not sure why everyone thinks this is a giveaway price by time you spend 15-20k on the interior 2 k for caps anther 5 k for miscellaneous you’ll have a nice driver that’s worth 40 k or so . Beautiful cars but 60s have never brought big money and never will compared to what 59s bring , I don’t care how much someone likes them it’s just the fact of the matter . A 60 Cadillac has a following in the Cadillac community but in the general car collecting community it doesn’t carry much weight , there are not a lot of big collections that are lusting after a 60 Seville. I built what was probably one of the nicest 60 Eldos ever done and had to beg to sell it at 125k . Take a nice 60 to auction and a couple of the caddy guys will be excited over it but the general population will just watch it go by . These cars will always be the little brother to the 59 money wise and collectibility wise . That’s why from an investment standpoint building a 60 is suicide , ask me how I know ! Been there done that !
Plus it will have a 'Collectability Level' of D-. ;)
Quote from: Big Fins on October 06, 2019, 01:37:12 PM
Plus it will have a 'Collectability Level' of D-. ;)
Unless you use chucks rating system and then it’s an unbelievable quadruple A plus rating because then it’s no longer a Seville it’s an amazing 6437 or whatever the heck style number the book calls it lmao
Quote from: 60eldo on October 06, 2019, 11:36:17 AM
Anyway mine is nicer. LOL
Who's car is in that picture? Is that Yours???
Bobby
No worries, Bobby. We got Jonny a seeing eye dog! ;)
Quote from: Big Fins on October 06, 2019, 04:04:54 PM
No worries, Bobby. We got Jonny a seeing eye dog! ;)
OMG! Now I feel really BAD......
Bobby
Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on October 06, 2019, 11:24:06 AM
It has the wrong hubcaps the interior is wrong so it’s priced right at 22k . Buy it for 20 and it’s a good buy to put back right . Would have made a way better starting point than the eBay car for 12 . You have to remember even finished a 60 Seville is only going to bring 45 k or so , so this car is priced right at 20k put another 25k in it and have a nice driving car . 60 Seville’s just don’t bring big money when you can get 60 Biarritz s all day long under 100 k.
That's why I posted it...it's a much better starting point.
Quote from: Big Fins on October 06, 2019, 01:37:12 PM
Plus it will have a 'Collectability Level' of D-. ;)
;D ;D ;D
Agreed with what most others are saying. If you can get a nice driver for 45k that has to be the best route to go.
You'll spend way more and years of your life to restore one. Can't afford to write a check for 45k just get a loan. Will be less per month than you'll spend on restoring it.
Quote from: INTMD8 on October 07, 2019, 01:23:39 PM
;D ;D ;D
Can't afford to write a check for 45k just get a loan. Will be less per month than you'll spend on restoring it.
You know, that is one way to look at it that I never really thought of. Everything is done on payments these days, so why not? Sure the interest will make a bit of a premium on top of the whole thing, but, that would be offset by the cost of the project vehicle whereas the principal would be offset by the cost of restoration, so it would seem like a wash at first glance. The difference is you can drive and enjoy now.
Up here, you can get a line of credit for starting as low as 4.5% - cost of borrowing is pretty cheap.
It’s the best way to go. You can’t compare the thrill of getting a nice car and immediately enjoying it as compared to years of work and putting up with body shops, chrome shops and interior shops that rip you off and take years to do a job.
There are some top notch shops out there but you better be prepared to spend some serious money to get a car done right and on a reasonable time frame.
Hmm..... interesting concept. I never really put any thought to the buy now pay later being more cost effective in the long run. My normal approach has ALWAYS been save up and pay cash. However I missed a Sausalito Green '71 Eldorado convertible recently because I refused to take a loan out to purchase it. I quickly started to liquidate only auto related assets to fund the purchase and that one slipped away. I was dead set against touching any savings that was not earmarked for the purchase of a '71 Eldorado convertible. In hindsight I should have probably financed the shortage and paid off the loan. Could've, would've, should've.
Terry
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: INTMD8 on October 07, 2019, 01:23:39 PM
;D ;D ;D
Agreed with what most others are saying. If you can get a nice driver for 45k that has to be the best route to go.
You'll spend way more and years of your life to restore one. Can't afford to write a check for 45k just get a loan. Will be less per month than you'll spend on restoring it.
Absolutely. Even with the interest charge over the life of the loan, it will pale in comparison to the amount of money spent on restoring one.
Now with that said you still need to vet any car you look at. Today the amount of cars "restored" for resale are in large numbers. When figuring ones profit margin upon retail it can severely affect the quality and extent of the work done for that purpose. As always buyer beware-- even at the big auctions there can be some real ugly builds hiding beneath the surface under those pretty lights. I've seen it for myself.
Restoration of a special car (to you) is the only time I can see the expense justified. And I can tell you I have a shop full of them. Cars folks owned since high school, dated their current wife in, brought their kids home from the hospital in, the car their dad left to them, and so on. Folks don't want any nice (insert marque, year, and model) car. They want
their car and fully understand that it simply costs way more to do it than to buy the same model done correctly.
Ken makes a valid point on restoration and sentimental value.
Case in point - when my father passed on 2 years ago, I inherited his tools and his 1954 Ford NAA tractor. No amount of money will buy that tractor and my intention is to restore it. I could buy one in show condition for around $5k and it will cost me about that to restore his. It ran out of gas at the end of my driveway a couple of weeks ago. 3 separate people stopped in while I was doing other things within an hour asking if it was for sale. I turned them all down, and they were 3 good offers considering the condition of the tractor.
My wife sort of gets it, thankfully. Sometimes, even if it doesn't make sense, you just do it, but there has to be a motivating factor, otherwise you lose interest and the internet is full of projects for sale where folks have lost interest.
After the 3rd guy that day, I hopped in my car, got gas, and tucked it back in the garage. I still take it down the road once in awhile just to keep things working, but it needs everything gone through.
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on October 07, 2019, 02:46:57 PM
You know, that is one way to look at it that I never really thought of. Everything is done on payments these days, so why not? Sure the interest will make a bit of a premium on top of the whole thing, but, that would be offset by the cost of the project vehicle whereas the principal would be offset by the cost of restoration, so it would seem like a wash at first glance. The difference is you can drive and enjoy now.
Up here, you can get a line of credit for starting as low as 4.5% - cost of borrowing is pretty cheap.
Yes you will have some interest cost but I think it still works out much better. (agreed with above, throw all this out the window if we are talking about a car with sentimental value).
So, 45k @ 4.5% for 60 months is zero down, $839 a month.
Or, buy a project and spend the next 5 years and 50k+ restoring it.
In this case that's comparatively 12k down and $833 a month. (plus a few thousand hours of labor)
I have saved myself a bit of money recently (probably 60k) by buying a partially completed project and finishing it myself. Was a lot of work but I bought the car for less than the previous owner had just in parts and body/paint. Not to mention a huge head start on time. It took me one year instead of several.
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on October 08, 2019, 12:03:17 PM
My wife sort of gets it, thankfully.
That's what it took for my cars. People stopping in while I work on them and ask if it is for sale. When she hears the offers, she just looks at me knowing what I paid and have in it.
This is the thread someone was looking for.
Except for the rarest circumstances, I would never recommend the use of borrowed money for the purchase of a vintage car.
It all depends on where you are in life. Kids in college or going to college, huge house payment, and so on, then I'd agree probably not the time to take a loan for a big toy.
But, house paid for, kids grown, all other expenditures well under control, then I can see it.
I hear folks say all the time "I can't afford that" when in reality they simply, IMHO, want too much. Most folks that say that to me already have a fishing boat, a Harley, a couple of jet skis, a decked out $60,000 pick up truck (they are paying on) and at least one old car already in their garage.
For me the old adage "living beyond your means" comes to mind.
Eric,
Money is cheap right now. I’ve been fortunate and have been able to buy my cars for cash. What I’m saying is that you can sometimes find a nice car for sale at a good price and negotiate the price too. Estate sales, divorce sales, these things pop up sometimes. So let’s say you can find a car of your dreams that someone is selling for $25,000. You really want the car but you only have $5000 or $10,000. Of you buy a non running, rusty car rust needs chrome and interior you are going to pay at least $35,000 to $$40,000 or possibly much more to restore the cheaper car. You are also going to have to deal with numerous shops for paint and body, upholstery, chrome, find missing or damaged parts plus the time factor. Possibly years!!!
Or get a home equity loan for 4 percent and buy an appreciating classic, get to drive it right away and enjoy the car and make payments and still come out ahead even with the interest.
There are lots and lots of nice Caddy’s for sale all the time. That’s my opinion.
Quote from: 76eldo on October 24, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Eric,
Money is cheap right now. I’ve been fortunate and have been able to buy my cars for cash. What I’m saying is that you can sometimes find a nice car for sale at a good price and negotiate the price too. Estate sales, divorce sales, these things pop up sometimes. So let’s say you can find a car of your dreams that someone is selling for $25,000. You really want the car but you only have $5000 or $10,000. Of you buy a non running, rusty car rust needs chrome and interior you are going to pay at least $35,000 to $$40,000 or possibly much more to restore the cheaper car. You are also going to have to deal with numerous shops for paint and body, upholstery, chrome, find missing or damaged parts plus the time factor. Possibly years!!!
Or get a home equity loan for 4 percent and buy an appreciating classic, get to drive it right away and enjoy the car and make payments and still come out ahead even with the interest.
There are lots and lots of nice Caddy’s for sale all the time. That’s my opinion.
If it's a once in a lifetime find, bargain etc., then I say go for it. That's why I prefaced by saying "Except for the rarest of circumstances...". ;) Barring that, purchasing a collector car on credit is not a good idea as a for the average buyer paying full market value as a general rule.
I like having money in my savings account so I have no problem saying I have borrowed money from my 401k @ 4 % to buy 3 of my current cars which I have paid myself back for . I don't really see a difference between a collector car and a Boat or Side by Side 4 wheeler, camping trailer etc. Most people buy these on credit with drawn out terms so they can afford the payment and by the time they are through paying for them they have depreciated and maybe worth 40 percent of the original cost. I do not look at my cars as investments they are what I choose to spend money on as a hobby. But the cars did cause me to buy a different home 9 years ago with a larger lot so I could build a garage to put them in. I do look at that as an investment and with the housing market going crazy here in Salt Lake in the past few years, my home has appreciated about 32% .
Admittedly I stopped reading when this post jumped the tracks and got off topic, but since it got to a 5 page post, I started to read the most recent posts.
But, the HORROR !
As often happens within any group it comes down to MONEY - and who has MORE.
TRANSLATION - competition for points or awards or envy becomes more about DOLLARS than SENSE.
And yes, I spelled that right - not cents.
All the great Concourse event cars have little or nothing to do with the owner turning a wrench or working with their hands, but which restoration shop was PAID MORE to win a prize or adulation for the owner.
This forum has its share of such folks and the discussions about loans to have it NOW than PERSONALLY WORKING FOR IT over time are perfect examples of what members have railed against about the Disposable Society and the "I want it now generation" - and my personal favorite is a combination of the two = LEASE IT NOW which feeds instant gratification, then turn the leased car in, then sign and repeat.... don't BUY, that takes more commitment to accumulate the money, and even more to fix up that classic.
I for one say if you are too old to do the work or you have the bucks from which ever source - as NIKE says - just do it.
But for me - working with my hands to the extent of my education - training - experience is far more personally fulfilling than writing a check - regardless of whatever financial resources are available.
From one of the Old School and a Dying Breed - drop the MICrophone.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Financing and being the ability to compete nationally are two different matters.
Happily there are plenty of great Cadillacs for every budget. Here's such an example of national show winner material that you don't have to be a millionaire to afford- and frankly, is a much better road car than any mega-buck '50s car could ever hope to be.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Cadillac-DeVille-d-Elegance/312810691316?hash=item48d4f85af4:g:9qkAAOSwOXBdq3~v
Quote from: 76eldo on October 24, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Or get a home equity loan for 4 percent and buy an appreciating classic, get to drive it right away and enjoy the car and make payments and still come out ahead even with the interest.
I've done well this way with the last 5 cars I bought. Well, not home equity loan, Penfed will loan at 4% or less on classics.
Payed/paying them off early but would have missed out otherwise.
Steve- In my situation and I believe many others it wasn't trying to borrow as much to buy/build perfectly restored vehicles. Still putting -plenty- of work into the stuff I originally bought on loan.
Another thread that, after 6 pages, has gotten wayyy off topic and is beginning to suffer from "beating a dead horse" syndrome.
What were we talking about?
I think it started as pulling a broke, busted, rusted and maybe can't be trusted body off of a same type of frame and just slipping another body in on top of it. ;) Then again, maybe I read it all wrong.
Well, the discussion may have drifted but so has Jon’s intentions and thoughts on what to do with his two 1960 Cadillacs. Does it matter? Are we using too many kilobytes or something ?
;D This thread isn't even discussing Jon's car anymore!
Car? What car?
Greg Surfas
Finance a collector car?
After having been debt free for 15 years that just goes against the grain. So I spend $300.00 per month on cigars. Never thought about that. $300.00 per month would help finance another nice pre-war Cadillac/Lasalle. But then...what would I do about cigars?
Problems. Problems!
Bob R.
You may have to switch to Swisher Sweets! ;D
This topic has gone so far off track that it is time to lock it.
Bruce. >:D