1951 Caddy daily driver

[Mowerhoarder]

Hey! I'm new here and also (soon to be) new to Cadillac's. I bought a 1964 dodge 880 as my first car and am having to sell it due to frame rust issues. I think I'm gonna buy a 51' Cadillac series 62 as the replacement for it and I've got some questions about it. First; are these cars good highway cruisers? I'm talking about life in the fast lane 75-80mph style driving, not doing 5 under the speed limit in the slow lane. When I was driving the Dodge (still driving I guess) I didn't take it on the highway due to it not being held together very well but I fully intend to take this caddy on the highway and probably on road trips, namely hot rod power tour. It's also going to see a lot of around town as that's mostly what I do. This car is going to be my daily driver and I'm assuming that it's going to break down fairly often. It's nothing I'm not used to but I'm just wondering what parts are prone to failure with that car? Is it going to be stout enough to be abused by a 16 year old stock or is it going to need modifications to make it less likely to burn the rear end out doing donuts in a parking lot? Also, what's the approximate top speed of one? I really don't plan to go over 80 but the lead food will always find a way

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Connor,

Welcome to thinking about a Cadillac.

As for driving in the fast lane, you have to remember that when these cars were brand new, nobody drove at those speeds, simply because the roads were mostly bad.

Not saying that you cannot drive it now at those speeds, but I personally wouldn't recommend it, because of the poor braking, compared to todays' vehicles, plus, the car would have to be in perfect condition, suspension-wise, and as a minimum Radial Tyres.

With regard to brakes, you would have a very hard time pulling up if something went wrong, outside of your own car.   Everyone around you will be driving nose to tail, with you trying to keep back, to give you room to stop, but others will see the gap, and soon fill it.

If it rains, the Wipers will never keep up to allow you to see ahead.

Others will come in with the problem with parts and maintenance, but I wouldn't want to be on the road, travelling at those speeds with any old car nearby.

Bruce.

[billyoung]

Welcome, After owning about 40 of these Cadillac's from 1955 thru 1990 Brougham's I would caution you buying one earlier than a 1954. 1954 was a drastic change in many positive ways with regard to roadability. Honestly if you feel you have a lead foot I would recommend a 1964 Cadillac DeVille with the first year 429 engine and the new Turbo-Hydramatic transmission. I owned one and the car is amazing in the performance department. The 50's Cadillac's are not great hot shots. One Mans Opinion

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I don't know on the 51, but our 55 does 70 ok. I have had it faster, but I usually drive it 60-65. With that said, it does that with no problems at all.
Please remember that these were made before highways, so they were never designed to go 80-- Not saying they can't or won't, but it wasn't in the design parameters.
I would not want to be in stop/go highway traffic with it.
And, as a parent, please remember- No seatbelts. I did put them in our 55.
Good luck,
Jeff

[Mowerhoarder]

The Tassie,
Thanks for the info!
In regards to brakes, are there disc conversion kits for the front? I'm not super worried about tires/suspension stuff as that will most likely be redone anyway and tires are a must have. I'm familiar with the wiper problem as well, the wipers on my Dodge barely cover half the windshield and are still pretty bad at that. I do plan to convert it to 12v though which might help with that?

Bill,
I think you're dead on with the post 54 idea, I was looking for a 54-57 but couldn't find any 4 door ones within my budget. Personally, I like the 50's cars a lot more because of styling and the "bullet" front & rear bumpers.

Jeff,
70 is a fine cruising speed for me, I was just wondering if it could do 80 for longer stretches than just passing a semi or something like that. Not to say I won't cruise at 80 if the car can do it lol. As far a seatbelts go, I might install some lap belts.

[Mowerhoarder]

Is 15,000 a fair price to be asking for this? My budget is about $9,000 would that be a fair offer?

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[Caddy Wizard]

A 51 Cadillac is a great car mechanically.  Engine and transmission are very, very reliable.  Not terribly prone to overheating.  Like any car from the 50s and 60s, it has points-style ignition and a carb with a mechanical fuel pump.  Compared to modern cars with electronic ignition and fuel injection, these cars are less reliable.  But among cars of this era, the 51 Cadillac is rather good.

Electrical system is weak compared to modern cars (6v, with cloth covered wiring).  Can be made to start well and with fair lighting with some careful attention.  Vacuum wipers suck, literally and figuratively.  Around town, the car is a great performer.  The 2-barrel Carter carburetor is the epitome of 2-barrel sophistication and performance -- much better than the 4-barrels that Cadillac started using in 1952.

On the highway, you will find that the engine revs higher than you are used to at 70mph.  The transmission is not an overdrive unit, unlike most cars today.  Whereas new cars rev around 1800rpm at 70mph, the 51 engine will be running much higher than that at 70mph -- it is just geared to have a 1:1 final drive ratio.  The car was designed and built BEFORE the modern interstate highway system that Eisenhower built.  On the other hand, this engine was perhaps the best engine in the industry in 51 (and the Hydramatic was certainly the best transmission) and the car is capable of speeds over 100mph.

I have owned 23 old Cadillacs from 1949 to 1962.  My 1950 and 1951 sedans were among the very best performers as daily drivers that I have owned.

[Mowerhoarder]

Wizard,
Thanks for the info!
I'm for sure gonna convert it to 12v for better everything really, better starting, ability to be jump started by a normal car, stuff like that.
I also plan to convert it to an electronic ignition of some sort and it's probably going to get an intake for two or three two barrel carbs

[dn010]

Just for kicks, I once took my 57 sedan out to see what it could do. It had no problem going past 90, however, at 80mph is when it began to "float" on me and it did not feel safe at all. This is after replacing suspension with the frame off resto. It has no problem getting up there, but as stated these were not meant to travel that speed for long durations. Drum brakes and lack of seatbelt is also a little unsettling at speed.

[Jay Friedman]

Just for kicks, I once took my 57 sedan out to see what it could do. It had no problem going past 90, however, at 80mph is when it began to "float" on me and it did not feel safe at all. This is after replacing suspension with the frame off resto. It has no problem getting up there, but as stated these were not meant to travel that speed for long durations. Drum brakes and lack of seatbelt is also a little unsettling at speed.

I have a stock '49 (with drum brakes) which I've driven on many long trips.
While it can cruise effortlessly at interstate speeds, and I once had it up to 80 mph on a deserted interstate, I agree with what Dan Benedek wrote.
For safety, I've installed lap belts, a stiffer front sway bar and tend to keep a safe distance from cars in front of me,
but personally I don't feel the need to go that fast so it's not an issue for me.
Since you wrote you want to modify whichever car you buy to some extent, you might want to get in touch with the Modified chapter of the CLC (modifiedcadillac.org) for further information.

[Lexi]

My 1956 Limo (which has the 3.36:1 rear axle gear ratio), seems to be happiest around 60 on the highway. Think this rear end gave the car better pick up when moving from a dead stop around town. At higher speeds it is not as happy. Got bias ply tires which track horrible compared to modern radials. Car will "float" around in response to road surface iregularities. Drum brakes are good for a car this size and age but no comparison to new disc brakes. I would not like to be in a situation where I have to do a panic stop at highway speed and contend with these brakes and tires when someone is cutting in front of me. Many other reasons to argue these cars should not be used as daily drivers. The National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956, initiated the building of the interstate system only starting in August 1956. So when these cars were new they were designed for use under different road conditions. Insighful comments by member Bill Young above. From about the mid 1960s on there is a world of difference in how Cadillac cars performed, with those performing more like new cars. No comparison to the 1950s models which drive more like "old man cars" which is not a criticism. Just recognizing a fact. Not all cars are built for speed and performance. Jay's comments also make a lot of sense. Clay/Lexi

[Caddy Wizard]

Wizard,
Thanks for the info!
I'm for sure gonna convert it to 12v for better everything really, better starting, ability to be jump started by a normal car, stuff like that.
I also plan to convert it to an electronic ignition of some sort and it's probably going to get an intake for two or three two barrel carbs

Conversion to 12v is doable, but not necessary.  I kept my 50 and 51 sedans 6v and they worked great.  "Upgrading" to 2 or 3 two-barrel carbs will be a downgrade in satisfaction, IMO.  The 51 carb is really, really good.

[Mowerhoarder]

Dn,
That's good to know that it'll do 90, I don't plan to go crazy speeds on a super busy highway but I know I'll get curious as to how fast it can go at some point.

Jay,
I am also looking at a 49' and was wondering pretty much the same thing, I was leaning towards the 51' based on looks mostly and the fact it's a little bit newer, not that 2 years is a huge difference but still.

Wizard,
Pretty much the sole reason I want to convert to 12v is that I'm an idiot and will find a way to leave something on in the car that drains the battery and I'm 99% sure that nobody at my high school has another 6v car to jump it with. Maybe a jumper pack is an option? I'd definitely forget to charge it though.

[Jay Friedman]

You can "jump" a 6 volt car from a 12 volt battery without damaging anything as long as you disconnect the jumper cables quickly after the 6 volt car starts. 
Also, make sure all the lights, radio and other accessories are switched off on the 6 volt car before you hook up the jumper cables. 
The 12 volt jolt won't harm in any way the 6 volt starter, but it could damage the 6 volt battery and voltage regulator unless you disconnect the jumper cables quickly. 
My '49 is 6 volts and I've jumped it with 12 volts more than once.  As Art wrote, as long as you keep all grounding points clean the 6 volt system will perform well.
You would only need 12 volts if you were installing air conditioning.

[dn010]

It will exceed 90, I can't remember how fast I had it going at the time but that was enough for me and did not do it again. These cars make up for floating at high speed with comfort. If your suspension is good, you will barely feel anything driving on bad roads, over speed bumps etc.

Couple of other things to consider:

Since you say you're 16, I caution that these engines are very thirsty and fuel prices are not what they were when I was 16. If you start looking at 60's Cadillacs, they have even bigger and even more thirsty engines. I converted my 1957 from stock carb to an Edelbrock 650. Runs fine on 87 reg but I stopped putting that in the tank and started non-ethanol (even more $!), you'd be amazed at what unnoticeable damage the 87 does (gummed carb, crazy carbon deposits).

Not sure how mechanically inclined you are, but if you run into problems, it could be hard to find people who know how to work on these or even want to touch them since they can't plug something in to tell them what is wrong. On the plus side, they are not that complicated and there are only so many things that can be wrong compared to today.

Along with fuel, parts are no longer cheap for these old things. You used to be able to go into a parts store and they'd either have parts stocked or they could get them next day. Now they're more scarce, cheaper quality and higher price.

These cars are huge compared to today's vehicles. I have a 09 beater Altima and it looks tiny compared to the SDV. May be harder for those with less experience to pull in and out of parking spots, take corners and those sorts of things.

No catalytic. You may find yourself smelling like exhaust after a drive depending on the condition of your exhaust and how many leaks you have in the cabin.

Speaking of leaks – they like to leak water with 70 year old weatherstripping

Lack of safety features. You already know these do not come with seat belts, but there are no air bags or any sort of knee padding in these things. No warning lights to tell you your tire is low or the engine is unhappy. The older the car you go, you may not even get laminated glass. The wiper systems on these things are terrible compared to electric wiper motors. There are no blind spot detectors, hardly any lighting to show you're moving over with your signal on and hardly any mirror sight with just the one small mirror on the side.

If you don't get a car with AC or working AC, you'll struggle when driving round in the rain, trying to keep the windshield defrosted. No rear or window defrost.

Do not let me discourage you, I am definitely not trying to talk you out of it - I also started driving a classic car when I was just starting out but I am able to fix pretty much anything on these old cars. Mine was so bad I had to stand on the brake petal AND hold the gas down a bit to keep it from stalling anytime I came to a stop (before I restored that particular car). Just wanted to give a little bit of extra things that one may not normally consider or think about.

[billyoung]

I think the 1954 Fleetwood Sixty Special looks to be a really complete car in reasonable condition. The interior seats can be redone with correct materials from SMS Auto Interiors.

[billyoung]

Is 15,000 a fair price to be asking for this? My budget is about $9,000 would that be a fair offer?

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Offer your $9,000.00 and try to get it for 10 or 11K
Bill Young

[Lexi]

Yes it does look to be a reasonably complete car and worth the asking price. Even better if you can get it closer to your budget. Clay/Lexi

[Joe Jensen]

I say go for it. 

It seems you are adventurous buying a classic for a daily driver.  There will be draw backs but it will be an adventure.  I suggest if you do modifications, do only bolt-on modifications and save the old parts.  That way if you change your mind later you can allways go back to stock.

For parts, I would suggest a voltage regulator.  If you can swing it, I would get a spare fuel pump/vacuum pump.  I had to rebuild my starter solenoid, you might look for a rebuild kit for it since they are getting harder to fine.  Make sure you always use the original solenoid.  Aftermarket 6v ones won't work.

If I was you, I wouldn't be in a big hury to modify things just because you can.  If you drive it a couple months first you might have a different option on what modifications you want to do.

I would look at right away at the wiring.  Especially, in the engine compartment.  These old harnesses were not designed to be in service 70+ years.  The wiring in my '49 was a fire harzard when I bought it.  I changed it out the first year I owned it.  I would say if what you see looks bad, it is much worse when you really dig into it.

Enjoy your new venture into Cadillacing! 

Keep us updated on your progress.

Good Luck!
Joe

[dn010]

Ohio. I'd love to see what it looks like underneath. This one was not being used frequently at all, which leaves you to enjoy all the surprises - they missed cleaning the underside of the dash pad above the radio, knobs are not shiny from any use. Judging by what I see and their garage setup, I'd say they're flipping this one. Good luck.