1969 Rebuilt Brake Caliper Issues

[Cadillac Nut]

I am having weird issues with the brakes on my '69.  The car had non functioning brakes when I bought it. Everything is new/rebuilt except for the metal lines themselves.  The driver's side caliper will not bleed no matter what I do.  It was rebuilt a 2nd time and the company could not find anything wrong with it.  The caliper does appear to work though, when you step on the petal the shoes contact the rotor.
2nd issue is,  The passenger side is leaking a lot from the house where it goes into the caliper.  Do I need two crush washers, a different kind of washer?    And, of course, I have almost no brakes, pedal goes to the floor.  I'm stumped.....

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

On the front left frame rail there is a proportioning valve....I'm wondering if your opening this valve up when you bleed the brakes....

Here's one for sale on eBay right now, just so we can see what it looks like. From underneath the car I hang a small vise grip off that small stud on the bottom. This valve needs to be open when bleeding the brakes....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193551287167

Somebody else will weigh in with a better description of what needs to be done....

Mike

[Dave Shepherd]

What is the"house" where it goes into the caliper? Some calipers require a copper washer on both sides of the fitting.  Did you bleed the rear first?

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I'd crack the lines at the calipers and hit the pedal to see if anything comes out. Tighten the lines before releasing the pedal. This will let you know if the bleeding problem is the master/line, or the caliper.
You say things are replaced but does that include the rubber lines?
Jeff R

[Big Fins]

What is the"house" where it goes into the caliper? Some calipers require a copper washer on both sides of the fitting.  Did you bleed the rear first?

I think he meant to spell 'hose'.

[Big Fins]

Lots to add to this. The master is a bear to get all the air out of it on the bench. You need to put it in a vise almost straight up where the outlet ports are at the top for the air to get out. Then you need to put in pipe plugs while you bolt it to the booster. From there, bleed out each section of hard line from the top to the bottom at the calipers and wheel cylinders.

I've never had so much trouble bleeding brakes as on 69 & 70 cars. Calipers need 2 brass washers. One on each side of the hose block and be sure the hole in the bolt is clean.

[Dave Shepherd]

Good info, BigFins, but the washers are copper.

[Cadillac Nut]

Thank everyone for the replies.  Yes, I meant hose and yes all rubber hoses were replaced.  No I haven't opened the proportioning valve, that's probably part of my problem     Also I didn't realize I need two copper washers right now there is just one on each.  What do you mean "washers on either side of hose block"? I had the master cylinder in a vise and did what you said, it bled fine.

[Dave Shepherd]

If these are the metric type hose, flat block, hole in the middle,  feed bolt screws into the caliper. They must have a copper washer on either side.

[Cadillac Nut]

I take it this is the proportioning valve.  How far is this thing supposed to open?  Several turns?

[Cadillac Nut]

And this is what I have for brake hoses, not the type with the hole in the middle.  Two washers here?? (this is where it leaks, just on the passenger side not driver)

[TJ Hopland]

That style does just use a single washer.  I have had issues with those leaking too lately, I think its just low quality parts.  Makes you feel safe when its thing like brakes eh?

I'm not a 69 expert but to me that looks like perhaps some sort of drum to disc conversion?  The caliper doesn't look right to be especially and the hex bolts look really not stock but I'm more used to the 70's so maybe they are correct? 

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

I take it this is the proportioning valve.  How far is this thing supposed to open?  Several turns?

Yes that's the proportioning valve....the pin on the bottom is what opens the valve....It's been awhile since I bled my brakes but I remember the pin is pulled down not turned, It's spring loaded inside the valve....Maybe twist it back and forth a little to get it moving....It doesn't pull out very far to open and I usually hang a vise grip from it to keep it open as I bleed the system.....Don't force anything here....

Your hoses look like they need just one crush copper washer there....

Mike

[Cadillac Nut]

It's the stock 69 brake set up.  I'll replace the washer but kind of scary if parts are really that low quality now.  I was able to twist the valve back and forth a little, I'll use the vise grips like you said to pull it down and try it tomorrow and see what happens

[TJ Hopland]

Interesting, I didn't know they ever used hex bolts, I thought the floating calipers started out with the Allen heads.

What method(s) of bleeding have you tried?  Have you tried just leaving the bleeders open for a few hours and see if gravity will fix it?  Are you sure the pedal is fully returning all the way up?  If something is keeping the MC from fully returning it won't bleed or act correctly.   Could also be a mismatch between the booster and MC causing it not to fully return.  To test that you can usually loosen the bolts between the booster and MC so there is a gap just for testing.       

[Cadillac Nut]

Are you sure that pin is pulled down?  Mine does not move up or down at all, it will turn slightly.   
Everything bleeds fine except driver's side caliper.   The pedal returns normally I don't think it's a master cylinder issue or I would be having bleeding problems on the passenger side too

[Cadillac Nut]

The proportioning valve seemed to be stuck, I did finally get the pin to go up and down, and hung a vise grip on it like suggested.  No change.  No matter what, no fluid will come out of the driver's side bleeder.  The passenger side bleeds fine, however when you close the bleeder and try to bleed the driver side, it eventually starts leaking from where the crush washer is (at this point am putting a lot of force on the pedal).    I know that fluid is getting to the driver's side as it will drip out of the hose if you remove the hose from the caliper.  I'm stumped. 

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

The proportioning valve seemed to be stuck, I did finally get the pin to go up and down, and hung a vise grip on it like suggested.  No change.  No matter what, no fluid will come out of the driver's side bleeder.  The passenger side bleeds fine, however when you close the bleeder and try to bleed the driver side, it eventually starts leaking from where the crush washer is (at this point am putting a lot of force on the pedal).    I know that fluid is getting to the driver's side as it will drip out of the hose if you remove the hose from the caliper.  I'm stumped. 

I'd leave the proportioning valve open and then remove the drivers side bleeder out completely....will fluid leak out of the caliper by gravity?....maybe the bleeder is clogged or defective....blow some air thru the bleeder while it's out...With bleeders open a substantial pressure on the pedal wouldn't be needed....

Mike

[Cadillac Nut]

Ok so some progress, I did remove the bleeder and I stuck a small pin in there.  Pumped pedal, fluid finally came out.  Put bleeder back in, fluid came out and bled caliper as normal.  I assume it was obstructed somehow? Bled passenger side.  Closed bleeder valve. Started up car, applied brakes as normal.  Pedal goes to floor.  Any ideas what to do now? 

[Dave Shepherd]

Didn't  see this in the posts, but have you successfully  bled the rear, this the first step in the process.