just dragged home a 1942 Cadillac '61' fastback coupe #2397, a few questions

[wm link]

Vin #5385004, Fairly complete I suppose. It originated in calif... been in AZ since at least 1961. Asbury green, w/ green ribbed cloth.  Car is remarkably rustfree and straight.  needs rear glass (busted), skirts (Missing), and the engine is (gone) for starters.  Side chrome is rough. This car has bright trim that was later banned after December 15 1941. My understanding is that 2740 of these coupes were built up to feb 4th of 1942 when all Cadillac automobile production was halted. I assume then my car was built just before Dec 15th. Less than 350 '61' coupes were built after my car. Cadillac built 2150 total 'blackout' cars (no bright trim). 1: Is there any information as to a break down by model how many of each particular Cadillac model were produced 'blacked out'?   2: Approx how much and where are repro rear 1/4 spears?  3: Is the rear glass shared by the other fisher lines that used this body? 4: Since new cars sales were strictly rationed by my late production date...Could my car that was ordered (army) green be in anyway related to the pending war?

[Bill Gauch #23121]

The car looks great. Congrats on your purchase. I don't know if you left it out because flat glass is easy, but in your picture, I see that you also need front and passenger glass as well. I know it doesn't rain much, but how bad is the interior exposed to the elements. Sorry, I don't have any answers to your questions. My Hollanders doesn't list rear glass for some reason, although, it looks like the front and side glass has lots of interchange options. Again, sorry I can't be more help. I just wanted to say congrats!

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

For starters, the quarter trim on the rear fenders may cost as much as you paid for the car...
I'll check on the rear glass later, as I have an appointment, but I think it's the same as the 41-62 sedans, and I may still have a spare if that's so. Just the fact that it was green doesn't mean it was purchased for the Army. I don't believe there is any model breakdown for black-out models. Don't forget, any auto mfg. had no reason to think that their cars would become collector's items to keep all of the info we think is interesting. I found a solid similar coupe many years ago, and wish I'd kept it. Good luck, and congratulations on your find.

[Dave Leger CLC #19256]

Hi WM,

    Check this thread http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,100690.0.html where someone with a 42 had a rear spear reproduced.  You might contact them and see if they can put you in touch with the person who did the spear for them.  I know when one of my 47's spears was hit, it cost me $1,600 to replace it.

[Tom Hall 7485]

(3) The backlight glass should have the same arc as that for other Fisher "B" bodied cars of 1941-2.  Whether it has holes for the two stainless steel trim pieces across it, I don't recall.  If you draw from a parts car, that glass is likely to have some discoloration and bubbles at the edges due to delamination.

(4) The military preferred four-door cars for its Cadillacs.

As you say, passenger car production stopped around February 1942, so I don't think we can say that cars were rationed as of 12/41.   The problem for some months before December 7, 1941 was reduced availability of certain materials, including aluminum and probably chromium, copper and nickel.  You have a car that GM built before it had to greatly reduce its use of chromium. 

If you order a copy of the invoice from GM Heritage Center, you will be able to learn more about when the car was shipped and from that date you can make some educated guesses about when it was built. I wish I knew on what day 1942 Cadillac production began.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

The 42-61 coupe rear quarter spear is a different spear than the 42-62 coupe spear since the 62 fender has a different curve profile.
The 61 spear has a flatter curve in length than the 62 spear.

[Dave Leger CLC #19256]

Interesting Bill, I didn't know that.  You're always a wealth of information!

Dave

[wm link]

Thank you for the prompt replies so far! I was surprised to read (Cadillac by Thomas Bonsall) that rationing of new cars began in January 1  1942 and that spare tires were not equipped after Dec 24 1941. Antifreeze was prohibited as of January 6th.  Since it needs a motor anyway I am giving some thought to an OHV 49-52 motor and retain the manual transmission...will a 49-52 engine readily accept the 42 manual trans I already have? 

[Bob Schuman]

Bill,
My 1947 vintage glass catalog shows the back glass for your car fits only the 1941 through 1947 61 Series coupe and sedan. Other Cadillacs used a different glass. The other GM B body cars(Pontiac, Olds, Buick) had the same glass shape, but without the four holes for the vertical bars that Cadillac used.
Your transmission will interchange with any 1939-1953 Cadillac manual transmission. A 1950 running change to the synchronizer was made, but this affects only internal repair work. The complete transmissions are all interchangeable, both before and after 1950.
Bob Schuman

[wm link]

The car looks great. Congrats on your purchase. I don't know if you left it out because flat glass is easy, but in your picture, I see that you also need front and passenger glass as well. I know it doesn't rain much, but how bad is the interior exposed to the elements. Sorry, I don't have any answers to your questions. My Hollanders doesn't list rear glass for some reason, although, it looks like the front and side glass has lots of interchange options. Again, sorry I can't be more help. I just wanted to say congrats!

REPLY: Yes I figuered the rear glass would be most at issue. The interior is mint(green) original! Never been smoked in (see image) !

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Don't you just love how simple these cars are to convert the dash's to RHD.

Oh, and flat glass is so easy to replace as well.

Bruce.

[Jeff Hansen]

Hi William,

Let me see if I can get you some answers to your questions....

From reading Roy Schneider's Cadillacs of the Forties book, we can determine the following:

Non-black out cars were termed series 42A cars and the black out models 42B.  All black out models were built after January 15, 1942 and ending February 5.

For the series 6107, Cadillac built 2470 of these.  Cadillac built 463 series 61 black out models (no sub-series breakdown available).  Serial number range for the 42A 61 series cars was 5380001 through 5385237, so yours is towards the very end of standard production.

For the rest of the 42B models:

series 62:  560 cars
series 63:  250 cars
series 60S:  375 cars
series 67:  180 cars
series 75:  327 cars

for a total of 2155 black out cars.  This is based on the serial number ranges given in Schneider's book.

Your rear quarter spears are quite rare.  They only fit 1942 series 61, 63, and 67 models.  Contact CLC member Lee Pendleton in Ashtabula, OH for possible reproductions.  The '42 spears are also longer than their '46 and '47 counterparts due the wrap around bumper ends employed in '46 and '47.

Tom Hall asked when 1942 production began.  I can only answer that it was prior to mid-September of 1941 as my 1942 series 7533 (body #18; engine #32 in series) was  shipped to the distributor at that time.

HTH,
Jeff

[homeonprunehill]

Don't you just love how simple these cars are to convert the dash's to RHD.
Oh, and flat glass is so easy to replace as well.
Bruce.

03-09-08
BRUCE, You should see the '38 60S.Cadillac was  made for turning into a RHD.  The "glove box lid and the inst. panel can be swaped, And I think the steering column can also be swaped to the right-side.
William, Once you obtain a back glass for your car, if it doesn't have the four holes needed, mearly take it to a "GLASS / MIRROR SHOP to have the holes drilled.  WILLIAM , you have a good car for reestoreing! Good Luck,JIM

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

BRUCE, You should see the '38 60S.Cadillac was made for turning into a RHD.  The "glove box lid and the inst. panel can be swaped, And I think the steering column can also be swaped to the right-side.   JIM   

Actually, I think that the reason Dash Boards were made Symmetrical for many years was just a Design feature and not a means of easy Conversions to RHD.

It wasn't till the later years when the "Designers" were exercising their own personal tastes and making the Driver's position similar to what was commonplace during the war years where the "Pilot" had everything close at hand, and to him or herself.

Bruce.

[tozerco]

BRUCE, You should see the '38 60S.Cadillac was made for turning into a RHD.  The "glove box lid and the inst. panel can be swaped, And I think the steering column can also be swaped to the right-side.   JIM   

Actually, I think that the reason Dash Boards were made Symmetrical for many years was just a Design feature and not a means of easy Conversions to RHD.

It wasn't till the later years when the "Designers" were exercising their own personal tastes and making the Driver's position similar to what was commonplace during the war years where the "Pilot" had everything close at hand, and to him or herself.

Bruce.

Hi Bruce,

The big series for 1936 and all the '37's had special right hand drive die-cast dash panels full width of the dash. You can probably work out how easy it is to get one of these if you need it! Makes the spears on the back fenders of a '42 look like backyards.

Regards,


John Tozer
#7946

[Gene Moscicki]

The rear glass is TEMPERED if it is drilled you will have what is in the car now.  Many, many little pieces of glass Any modifications must be done before the tempering was done at the factory.

Don't you just love how simple these cars are to convert the dash's to RHD.
Oh, and flat glass is so easy to replace as well.
Bruce.

03-09-08
BRUCE, You should see the '38 60S.Cadillac was  made for turning into a RHD.  The "glove box lid and the inst. panel can be swaped, And I think the steering column can also be swaped to the right-side.
William, Once you obtain a back glass for your car, if it doesn't have the four holes needed, mearly take it to a "GLASS / MIRROR SHOP to have the holes drilled.  WILLIAM , you have a good car for reestoreing! Good Luck,JIM

[Jim Thompson]

Wow, a coupe! What a great score

[homeonprunehill]

The rear glass is TEMPERED if it is drilled you will have what is in the car now.  Many, many little pieces of glass Any modifications must be done before the tempering was done at the factory.

Don't you just love how simple these cars are to convert the dash's to RHD.
Oh, and flat glass is so easy to replace as well.
Bruce.

03-12-08
Gene If I 'm wrong about drilling the glass, I'm wrong, but my thinking was, If it is suported propely and the driller takes their time (it will be harder when it is tyempered) But, it may be a laminated glass.


03-09-08
BRUCE, You should see the '38 60S.Cadillac was  made for turning into a RHD.  The "glove box lid and the inst. panel can be swaped, And I think the steering column can also be swaped to the right-side.
William, Once you obtain a back glass for your car, if it doesn't have the four holes needed, mearly take it to a "GLASS / MIRROR SHOP to have the holes drilled.  WILLIAM , you have a good car for reestoreing! Good Luck,JIM

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I have drilled glass, both Laminated and plain, but Tempered Glass is a totally different kettle of fish.

Touch it with any sort of drill, hole borer and it will simply shatter.

Bruce.

[42cad-6107-23]

my vin is #5380178, shipped in Sept 1941 to New York. You can contact GM and get the original build sheet. look inside the rocker panels to view rust pockets. Rear curved glass and all the straight glass is available from a guy in NorCal for about $750 for all. If the engine is gone - where on the frame did you find the VIN#. The black out of chrome was actually enacted in Jan 1942, but cars will still being delivered to dealers with chrome - they were required to paint the chrome black - because they were not allowed to sell a car with chrome after the Jan date so they did not have any advantages over other dealers that may have still had inventory with chrome. If you search wiki, you will find the numbers in production.

1: Is there any information as to a break down by model how many of each particular Cadillac model were produced 'blacked out'? I am not sure of this, but the build sheet will tell you more and GM-Cadillac division may have info in their records.

2: Approx how much and where are repro rear 1/4 spears? as far as original trim for the car - good luck - i do not know of any repo - it is such a rare year that the volume is not there to make reproduction parts.

3: Is the rear glass shared by the other fisher lines that used this body? The rear window is not the same as 4 doors, the 62 series has a longer wheel base so the side windows are different - but i am not positive on the rear window. The 41 might work, the 46 might work - i was blessed that the only glass not broken on the whole car was the rear window.

4: Could my car that was ordered (army) green be in anyway related to the pending war? Like mentioned before, military cars were all 4 door, green was a common color in that era, and your build sheet will tell you a bunch.

All in all - this is the first time i have found a picture of another 61 series fast back 1942, let alone another person that has a fast back. I cannot find pictures, or anybody else that has one. Contact me at skawt5 gmail

42-61-07-23
year, series, body style, body #