"Guest" Selling Items

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

One of the best reasons to join the Club is the Directory. Unless you have one, you don't know what you're missing. There are other ways, albeit "old fashioned," to contact other members, such as by snail mail, and the phone.

"Otto," you have "met" only a small number of members if you rely on the people who use this forum. And if you say you are not a "joiner", you give the lie to that when you go to this site several times per day, which you obviously do. You have "joined" us by being heard from almost daily.

You are most certainly welcome, by what ever method you choose to "belong" to our group, but I feel you would be a valuable asset if you joined the Club for real. Way back in "ought-'64" when I joined, I had no idea that my membership would lead to the Presidency of the Club and that I'd be responsible for instituting a couple of things that are still used in Club procedures, (such as the original classifications used in GN judging.) I think that's a neat legacy to have.

I could not have done this by sitting on the sidelines., or by only going to Regional events, as a "hanger on", which would have been the comparable analogy to what you are doing now. 

[Carfreak]

Aha, thanks to Barry, I think we've found a solution to Otto's situation.  Don't know why it wasn't obvious before.  I've been a sponsor a couple times and it works great!   


Sponsor a Cadillac Owner
For less than $3 per month, that’s only pennies a day you can help an underprivileged Cadillac Owner realize the true benefits of belonging to a group of people that love the cars as much as him (or her).  Can be done on an individual basis or as a Region (Chapter) project.  

How can I help through Cadillac LaSalle Club Membership?
By helping Cadillac (& LaSalle) owners who are not realizing the resources & benefits that being a Cadillac & LaSalle Club member brings. 
 
What is Cadillac Owner sponsorship?
Wonderful things happen when you make the choice to sponsor a Cadillac Owner. For less than $3 a month, you'll show your sponsored Cadillac Owner the joys of belonging to a large group of other Cadillac & LaSalle owners by providing them with access to critical resources such as:

•   The Self-Starter: This award-winning monthly magazine is published eleven times per year. It is filled with interesting articles submitted by members, mechanical tips and advice; classified sections of cars, parts, and literature for sale/wanted; regional projects; historical accounts; member car features and Cadillac-factory updates.

•   Membership Directory: One of the most comprehensive membership directories in the hobby is printed annually and lists all members, their automobiles, and their location, plus engine/model serial numbers, production numbers, judging classifications, award winners, etc.

•   Roster of Technicians: Technicians with specific expertise as to the year or model are listed in the Membership Directory as a service to assist club members with difficult restoration/operational problems.

•   Authenticity Manuals: These indispensable manuals are published to help members with the idiosyncrasies and correctness of restoring their Cadillac-built automobile.

•   Inventory of Memorabilia: CLC jewelry, car badges, and personal items are available for purchase. Without a doubt the inventory and quality of awards, memorabilia and publications is unsurpassed.

•   Automobile Events: An annual Grand National Meet is hosted by one of the 44 chartered U.S. regions every summer. The constantly changing location of the meet enhances the opportunity for members around the world to visit new areas while on vacation, enjoy a great diversity of Cadillacs and LaSalles and meet new people with a common interest. Activities at the Grand National Meet include social events, national level judging, technical seminars, local tours, and a swap meet with cars and parts for sale. An awards banquet concludes a typical GN meet. Lifetime friendships have been created through these events and many members anxiously look forward to the next Grand National. Interregional meets are an increasingly popular activity between adjoining regions throughout the U.S.

•   Driving Tours: At least one national driving tour is organized annually by one of the U.S. regions...a time to enjoy the Cadillac-built automobiles as they were initially intended...to be driven. Local collections are often a part of such a driving tour as well as cultural and scenic attractions. International affiliates' activities include similar events. All CLC members are welcome to participate.

•   Historical Archive: The Cadillac-LaSalle Club Museum and Research Center, Inc. (CLC Museum) is a separate charitable and educational organization. As a 501 (c) 3 organization, it is eligible for and welcomes tax-deductible contributions. Members of the CLC are automatically members of the CLC Museum. The Museum provides access to historical data, factory publications, and vital data contributed by generous donors in order to preserve Cadillac's history and heritage. Copies of the archival information are available for a very nominal fee. One of the recent projects by the Museum is a 432- page publication/coffee-table reference book co-authored by CLC members, Ron VanGelderen and Matt Larson entitled LaSALLE-CADILLAC'S COMPANION CAR.

Will I get to know my sponsored Cadillac Owner?
You'll also have the chance to build a relationship with your sponsored Cadillac Owner that will transform both your lives. "I know my sponsor," says Mr. X, a sponsored Cadillac Owner from the eastern US.   "He writes me emails. We talk about Cadillacs & LaSalles."

[Terry Wenger CLC #1800]

In the past if a Cadillac or LaSalle owner wanted information from an owner of a like car, the best way to approach it would be to join the Cadillac- LaSalle Club for contact. Many of these owners either had experience or information they had acquired. I have many long time friends in the Club from this process.

Today, with the advent of the web site, owners try to reap the benefits from the folks that have acquired materials, knowledge and/or actual experience with no effort on their part. Also they expect this information instantaneously, with their only investment being a few strokes of the keyboard...... instant gratification. Why spend the cost of the dues?

One can be a member of the CLC without being in club organization, technical services, contributing to the publication etc. and many members are. They do, however, support the organization to keep the web site, publications etc. going. By limiting some of the message board access to members only, some potential members might be turned away, but some may decide to join to receive the club and message board benefits.

I think this matter should be addressed in a future board meeting.

Terry Wenger

[Ted in Olympia WA]

Okay I filled out the application and joined; will post my member number when the application is processed.

I have only posted a couple things for sale on this forum but I have sold a few items when people listed a "want to buy".  I have posted almost 400 times and most of these are because I was trying to share my experience or give help to others.  Hopefully I helped a few.  I also try to post pictures when I can so that others can benefit in the future.  As a side note can we increase the number of pictures per post to four?

Now that I joined I guess I can post links to my eBay auctions or promote myself a bit more.  Mostly I sell parts for 71-78 Eldorados and I currently have about 25 cars I'm parting out.  But my business model is to bring a car in, part it, sell the parts on eBay (or other means) and then start over again.  Since I sell items only part time sometimes I get overwhelmed with requests or I'm not able to take a part off that I have.  I prefer to sell parts by email because I like to verify that the part is there and in good shape before I reply; tmdunlap@comcast.net but the phone is good also 360-464-3288  I'm very open as to what I have, try to be very honest, and have a liberal return policy.  I don't want anybody to be unhappy or buy a part they don't want.  http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=superted38&ftab=AllFeedback

The main reason I started this post is to warn people to be careful from buying from guest.  When they post as guest you have no way of know the past history or if they guy even is for real.  A while back a "guest" was advertising hood ornaments for a very good price.; he said they were OEM for Eldorado.  When I wrote to him and ask him for pictures, part numbers, and a price if I purchased more than one he never replied.  I tried again with the same result.  This kink of told me that he was not for real and did not know the details, nor did he have the items.  Maybe I'm wrong but this is what it told me.  Then I see other "guest" that say they have some very rare parts and this makes me worry.

I don't feel you should be a member to sell or post but I sure think that you should at least go through the trouble to register so we can see a count and past posts.  Even if you do not pay dues, if you are providing good information and trying to help people, this is a value service; their time is worth something.  And I sure would not refuse to help someone just because they are not a member; nor would I even think to ask.

As for the person that said they were too lazy to register even though they post a lot and provide lots of good information; I think this is kind of sad and I don't understand.

I'm happy to be a new member and should have done it long ago.

Thanks

TED

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Welcome!!!

[Bill Hedge CLC 14424]

Otto, Forest, or whatever your true name, you wrote:  "I'm an iconoclast not a joiner."

Not being accustomed to using such big and fancy words, I had to consult a dictionary to find the meaning of the word "iconoclast".  Dictionary.com defines iconoclast as:
"i⋅con⋅o⋅clast
    aɪˈkɒn əˌklæstShow Spelled Pronunciation [ahy-kon-uh-klast]  Show IPA
â€"noun
1.   a breaker or destroyer of images, esp. those set up for religious veneration.
2.   a person who attacks cherished beliefs, traditional institutions, etc., as being based on error or superstition."
________________________________________
Origin:
1590â€"1600; < ML īconoclastēs < MGk eikonoklástēs, equiv. to Gk eikono- ICONO- + -klastēs breaker, equiv. to klas- (var. s. of klân to break) + -tēs agent n. suffix

Related forms:
i⋅con⋅o⋅clas⋅tic, adjective
i⋅con⋅o⋅clas⋅ti⋅cal⋅ly, adverb

Synonyms:
2. nonconformist, rebel, dissenter, radical


The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines an iconoclast as:

"Main Entry: icon•o•clast
Pronunciation: \-ˌklast\
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin iconoclastes, from Middle Greek eikonoklastēs, literally, image destroyer, from Greek eikono- + klan to break â€" more at CLAST
Date: 1641
1 : a person who destroys religious images or opposes their veneration
2 : a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions
â€" icon•o•clas•tic \(ˌ)ī-ˌkä-nə-ˈklas-tik\ adjective
â€" icon•o•clas•ti•cal•ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb "

   
   Unfortunately, your description of yourself, based solely upon your posts, may be true.  And more unfortunate is that you have apparently been very successful in your role of an iconoclast on the message board.  The message board is currently understaffed with only five moderators.  One moderator just announced he is quitting because he is tired of dealing with the issues that you have created.  Another moderator has expressed similar sentiments, but has not yet resigned.  Since it is not unusual for a moderator to spend an average of an hour a day performing his duties, the loss of moderators is a big loss to the message board and the club.   In his post Barry Wheeler spoke about the legacy we leave for the club.  While I agree that a healthy dose of skepticism is often valuable in life, is this really the legacy you want leave behind?  Since your two year anniversary of the JOINING the message board is about a week away, it might be good time to reevaluate your role on this board?

[Rick Payton]

I am a member and I for one would be very upset if we lost Forrest over this. I think his contributions to this site has been significant.  I will say a highlight of membership is getting the "Self Starter" that is worth the membership fee alone in my humble opinion.   

[Carfreak]

One moderator just announced he is quitting because he is tired of dealing with the issues that you have created. 

1.   I seriously doubt that.  Surely there has to be more to the story.

2.   "No disparaging remarks against other writers, Club members, vendors, or any other person are allowed."   

[Carfreak]

I am a member and I for one would be very upset if we lost Forrest over this. I think his contributions to this site has been significant.  I will say a highlight of membership is getting the "Self Starter" that is worth the membership fee alone in my humble opinion.   

Agree on all statements.

[Ted in Olympia WA]

I don't think that anybody with 2,263 posts will ever quit.  I don' think you can rid of him if you tried

No where did I try to imply that you should be a member to post here; I just thought you should be registered in order to sell here.  And I do think it's a good idea to be registered to post here also.  As far as I know this is the only forum I visit that have "guest".

TED

[Bill Ingler #7799]

There is an old saying " If it isn`t broke, don`t try to fix it". Maybe fix it just a little bit. I got my first Cadillac in the early 80s and if it had not been for a friend in Michigan to help out on my problems I would have been lost. Along came this board and we all pitch in to help keep these wonderful old cars on the road. Yes I would like to see a requirement to register( not become a member) to sell parts or cars. I see nothing wrong with being a guest and posting. There is vast knowledge out there who know Cadillacs, who choose not to be members, that is their decision not ours unless we change the rules. So what wrong has Otto done in his posting? He certainly has the knowledge. I don`t agree with some of his postings but that can be said about mine or yours. We are not perfect.  Lets keep this a fun site

[STDog]

Otto, Forest, or whatever your true name, you wrote:  "I'm an iconoclast not a joiner."

Not being accustomed to using such big and fancy words, I had to consult a dictionary to find the meaning of the word "iconoclast". 
Synonyms:
2. nonconformist, rebel, dissenter, radical

And there is the meaning you were looking for.

Creating a login for the forum is not the same as joining the club.
It a way to let other users know who you are, though past post and the info in the profile.

I have logins at many forums that I seldom post on. It had nothing to do with joing them.
It is just a way for me to track threads that interest me.

it might be good time to reevaluate your role on this board?

Surely you're not suggesting that a regular contributor, who helps others because they want to sould leave the forum?

You'd really rather not have the information he provides?

It's attitudes like that cause me to not consider renewing my membership in the CLC.
That relates to me not posting here often, and why I won't go out of my way to attend a CLC event.

Too many people I'd rather not associate with.

[Dan LeBlanc]

Not that I really want to create controversy or anything, but I thought I should pipe in with my two cents.

Where I am in Canada (the Province of New Brunswick), the nearest Cadillac-Lasalle Club chapter is the Northeastern US.  If I were to join the CLC, I'd like to participate in meetings, events, and other activities.  Doing so would either mean driving 10-12 hours away (or if I joined the Canadian chapter in British Columbia, a 12 hour flight), or taking a $700 round trip plane ride.  So, what would be my benefit to joining?  I'd get the Self Starter and that would be about it.  While I'm sure it's a great publication, it's the only benefit I could enjoy from being a club member.  I couldn't feasibly participate in anything.

This forum is a great tool for me.  I enjoy getting information, helping others, and interacting with a group of individuals who appreciate the fine pieces of mechanical engineering that Cadillacs are.  Although I am not a member of local car clubs, I've been known to help out at local car clubs too.  I'll contribute to a group even though I'm not a part of it.  My contributions have always been welcomed and appreciated.  To hear others say that this should be a members-only resource is really disheartening and, well, snobbish.  I don't like snobs.  Hearing comments like that doesn't really want to make me join the club.  I wouldn't want to join a group of people that are not willing to help others despite membership status.

I think we're losing the true spirit of the car collecting hobby and wanting to turn it into a "country club" for car collectors.  I'm a member of the 1961-62 Cadillac Owners Group.  It's a free club, online, where we interact and get help from other owners of 1961 and 1962 Cadillacs.  We have members of the CLC in our group.  Heck, the site administrator even pays for the website himself.  He has yet to ask anyone for any sort of membership fee or financial assistance to help keep the site going.  In fact, he is encouraging other 1961 and 1962 owners to join and participate.  That is the true spirit of the hobby!  That is the spirit this forum should adopt.

[Rick Payton]

Bill,
I think you owe  Otto an apology and I am somewhat shocked as an administrator of this site that you would ask anyone to leave. This club is about people that contribute and help others. I went through almost ever one of Otto / Forrest 2000+ posts. and 99 percent of them he was helping someone with valuable information. I am afraid you sir are out of line.

With Respect

Rick Payton

[Jack Mcilwraith]

I too am "disturbed" that Forrest is being asked to leave. I have never seen anything [in my mind] that has been other than helpful.
What is wrong with creating a little controversy on occasion,to stimulate some thought?

[Misfit]

It will be 4 years ago at the beginning of Dec, that I joined the Club. I happend upon it while searching for some information about a '59 SDV I had just purchased.

I was so impressed with the help and answers I received from the group, I decided that it would be money well spent. It was. I'm still here.

I just re-uped for 3 more years, much to the dismay of the Mods I'm sure. I know I've driven Walter to drink a few times. Surely you don't want to leave on my account Walter... Huh??

And Bruce.....as to the cost of running the board? With the present server, it ain't cheap. We ran the MCLC, on a shoestring, but it got too big for the foot. With the size of this site and the content, I'm sure it pushes in the neighborhood of $3000 a year.

But I've made some good friends here. Something you can't have too many of.

Fins

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Firstly, neither Otto, or anyone else for that matter has been asked to leave, depart, vamoose or whatever.

I simply asked the question as to if Otto was a CLC Member.

As to Otto's "List", the reason it was removed from the CLC Forum is because the CLC is not in a position to recommend, or criticise any supplier as it is against the Forum Rules "No disparaging remarks against other writers, Club members, vendors, or any other person are allowed."

The commercial side of advertising of Vendors is handled within the Club's official monthly publication, The Self Starter, and it wouldn't be fair on these businesses, who pay fees to advertise, to then get a whole lot more places getting "Free Advertising" on this Forum.

The Advertising within the Self Starter is what enables the publication to continue to be published, and there are thousands more people that this publication reaches than view this website.

Bruce.

[38FLATTIE]

Bill,

I vote to throw Forrest off the board!

He's a nonconformist, rebel, dissenter, and radical? Shame on him!(and our Founding Fathers!)

Just throw him off . Sensorship, throught history, has a proven track record of success. We sure don't need him provoking stimulating thought! We can just keep regurgitating the same bland ho-hum.

[Bill Hedge CLC 14424]

Bruce:

As usual, you are right on all accounts.

[STDog]

As to Otto's "List", the reason it was removed from the CLC Forum is because the CLC is not in a position to recommend, or criticise any supplier as it is against the Forum Rules

Which is unfortunate, since one would hope a group such as this could recommend trusted suppliers.
Similarly, warn against those with a less than stellar reputation.


Still Forrest's list was not and endorsement. Just a directory, similar to the phone book.
You don't blame the phone book for list=ing bad businesses do you? No do you complain that your favorite isn't listed.

The Self Starter, and it wouldn't be fair on these businesses, who pay fees to advertise, to then get a whole lot more places getting "Free Advertising" on this Forum.

The Advertising within the Self Starter is what enables the publication to continue to be published, and there are thousands more people that this publication reaches than view this website.

The businesses that advertise in SS do it to reach the larger audience than what this forum reaches. Nothing on this forum negates that.

Firstly, neither Otto, or anyone else for that matter has been asked to leave, depart, vamoose or whatever.

No, not explicitly, but the implication was certainly there.