Oil recommendation

[Sllack]

73 500 CID has 24 k miles showing, but I can't validate that. Has a very slight lifter noise, runs good otherwise.

I live in TX and AZ, this car will be going to AZ soon.

I guess the question is what bottom weight and top weight should be my limits for this engine?

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

A good (API Certified) 10W-30 or 10W-40 would be correct for this engine.
Any of the major brands will work just fine.

Mike

[Sllack]

Sounds good, will go with 10-40.

[mgbeda]

Don't forget the ZDDP.  They took it out of most oils when roller lifters became common.  I've heard different opinions about how badly it's needed, but I have a friend whose rebuilt mopar 440 quickly ate a camshaft, and he blames it on lack of ZDDP.  Admittedly he drag races, but I figure the difference between severe use like that and the gentle use most of our cars get is a matter of degree; in others words gently used cams are still wearing out, just  more slowly.  You can get ZDDP additives and I believe there are still a few kinds of oil made with ZDDP for older cars.

-mB

[TJ Hopland]

I see they are adding more and more options in the synthetics since last I looked.   These are from Mobil's site but Im sure that other brands likely have similar offerings.   The 'High mileage 10-40' interests me.   Running 5-30 or 15-50 in older engines made me nervous depending on the season.   Now if I could just figure out why hardly any stores carry many (if any) options in larger than quart bottles.  I hate dealing with all the bottles.  That is one thing I love about my diesel, oil comes in gallon jugs.

   
Mobil 1 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy
Mobil 1 0W-40
Mobil 1 5W-20
Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 10W-30
Mobil 1 15W-50
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W-30
Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30
Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 for Diesel Engines
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40
MOBIL 1 RACING 4T 10W-40 AND MOBIL 1 V-TWIN 20W-50

[Sllack]

Lucas doesnt replace zinc additives right? I still need to add zddp, even if I have Lucas added?

[Classic]

Check out http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/.  It contains the optimum levels of ZDDP and other preservatives meeting MilSpec MIL-PRF-21260E .  Perfect oil for pre-catalytic converter cars.  Also OK for later catalytic converter cars not used for daily transportation.

[dadscad]

Amsoil still offers full synthetic oil with Zinc and Phosphorus to protect the lifters and cams of our engines. I attached a bulletin FYI. I use the HDD 5-30 oil in my 63 CDV.

HTH,
David
Amsoil dealer 1074391

[R Winchell]

Do not use any of the new oils that do not have zinc in it. New oils are designed for post 1975 cars with roller camshafts and catalytic convertors. The viscosity can vary with older cars where newer cars require thinner oil for optimum performance and economy.
Old engines with flat tappets need zinc in some form. It can be an additive that  ZDDP or Lucas provides, or you can buy racing oil from Valvoline or even Mobil one if you prefer a synthetic it will say "high zinc" on the container. Oil with zinc in a new car will not hurt the engine, but it will eventually contaminate the catalytic convertor and plug it up after lots of use. Newly rebuilt engines are the most impacted if no zinc is added. A very old engine that is quite "broken in" and has little use will not be affected as much or as rapidly as a new camshaft and flat tappet lifter will in a new engine.    Good luck.  Bob Winchell

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

I really hate to beat this old, dead horse again but I respectfully have to
disagree with you.

What everyone seems to forget (or perhaps don't know) is the following:

1)  ZDDP was developed during WW II as a friction reducing additive for
high revving, high horsepower, supercharged airplane engines.  Remember
that these engines ran flat out for hours and had relatively short lives
before needing complete rebuilds.  We don't run our cars that way.

2)  ZDDP was first introduced into oils for automotive use in 1948
One has to wonder what all those flat tappet engines did for all those
years prior to that.  They obviously survived just fine. 

If you are driving your classic for limited, occasional use  -- and not towing
trailers and putting on 50,000 miles per year -- you don't need an additive
in my opinion.

Exception:  On rebuilding a flat tappet engine, I would coat the cam
and lifters with a product like GM part #12345501 "Camshaft and Lifter
Prelube".  This aids in proper break in, as it has a high % of ZDDP.

Mike

[R Schroeder]

You might want to read this .
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1049812

I use Penzoil in my car. 20,000 miles and no problems.

[TJ Hopland]

Im in the camp of high stress high performance you may need lead and zinc.   None of my stuff is used that way and so far its all doing fine. 

I still ask the question, has anyone actually seen (not just 'heard about')  a cam with say 50,000 or 100,000 miles on it that was shot apparently due to not running zinc?   I have seen shot cams but they were shot at a couple thousand likely due to bad material or bad break in.   I know they last longer than that without zinc because all my engines are still running.    I have seen a Cad 425 that came out of a pickup truck the guy used for towing apart after around 100K.  I only saw what could be seen with the oil pan and intake removed but what could be seen looked fine and he was only pulling the engine out because he was swapping to a 500.  He ran a modern synthetic blend the whole time. 

The Chev light truck motors didnt get rollers till the middle / later 90's if Im not mistaken.   Most of the car motors got em in the mid 80's I think.   

[Tito Sobrinho]

Hi Fellows,

I've read on the Packard site that Rotella has ZDDP. What do you all think about it?

Thanks.

[TJ Hopland]

I have used Rotella and other diesel oils in gas engines and always get the same result which is more blow by or vapor.  The area around the breather always gets slimy.  Not sure why this is.  Its happened on tired engines and fresh rebuilds.  Switching back to non diesel engines and cleaning up the mess all goes back to normal.   The synthetic rotella works great in my Diesel and does not have the blow by problem.  Not sure why that is.   

[dadscad]

That's interesting TJ, I've not heard any complaints relating to your experience with diesel oil in gas engines. The Diesel oils are formulated to suspend soot and other combustion byproducts unique to Diesel engines. Maybe the additive formulation in some of the diesel oils are the culprit creating the under hood mess. Shell Rotella is a good oil, you would think that oil would perform well in a gas or diesel engine. I know some in the motorcycle community use it and like it very well.

The HDD 5-30 Amsoil I use in my 63 is also a Diesel/Gas Engine oil. Thankfully, I haven't noticed any problems with the under hood oily mess you describe.

[signart]

Funny TJ should mention that about Rotella, because I have a fresh new tri-powered 350 Chev. engine in my '59 p.u. I used along with break-in cam lube, Rotella oil to insure that no damage would be done to a carefully built H.P. engine during start up. Going thru all the recommended first start-up procedures, I now have a silent and smooth running, no smoke out the tailpipe, H.P. engine that has blowby like crazy after the engine is warm. Also it is low on expected power considering the components used. I fear that I should have removed the Rotella after initial start-up at least, and not try to seat the rings with the Rotella, (actually wish I hadn't used the Rotella). This has always been in the back of my mind. So, I believe TJ may be on to something here. Art Woody

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

This finding about Rotella is no surprise to me.

I have previously stated that oils made for diesels and oils made for gasoline
engines are different.  The all important "additive package" is not the
same since diesels and gasoline engines present a different set of issues
to contend with.

Firms like Lubrizol spend thousands of hours of testing to come up with
oil additive packages (15 or more ingredients) that are taylored for a specific
use.

Use the correct API rated oil as recommended by the engine manufacturer.  Chasing the "ZDDP" myth by substituting a diesel oil will do more harm than
good.

Mike

[dadscad]

Art,

Attached is a bulletin of Amsoil's break-in oil. I don't know if after the fact it would help, wouldn't hurt, though.


HTH,
David
Amsoil-Dealer 1074391

[TJ Hopland]

I thought it was odd also.    If you look at the API rating on the diesel oils most of them carry a S (gas) rating in addition to the C (diesel) rating so in theory if it meets or exceeds the rating for your engine it should be at least as good as what was required.  I dont think I have any diesel oil on hand at the moment but I think last time I looked the Rotella T had a SL rating and most of the typical brands have a SM.

[Tito Sobrinho]

What is a "breather" ?   Is it the same as the crankcase ventilation inlet and outlet in my 1949?
Thanks.