Can i please get some advice on a 53 Cadillac series 62 horn relay??

[mooman929]

Hello everyone so I recently tore apart my original 53 horns and got them working.  I have a new horn relay and everything wired  up.  My horn only works when steering wheel is in certain position and sometimes doesn't work at all.  I pulled the prong out of lower steering column where brass contact ring is and still nothing.  Sometimes in certain position of the steering wheel the relay will only click.... maybe Don't have the relay wired  right?  This is the relay I have can anyone tell me which wires go where ?  Thanks

[mooman929]

Any help please??

[J. Gomez]

Any help please??

Ross,

I’m not familiar with the later years, so I hope this can help you (from a 1955 â€" 1957 stand point) or that someone will chime in with the correct one for the 1953.

Traditionally the Hydramatic cars would have a neutral safety switch mounted on the steering wheel column. The NSS has a spring loaded brass contact for the horn relay wire, this contact goes inside the column and it rides over a brass collar on the steering wheel shaft.

More often the problem is with either the NSS and/or the brass collar.

Again if the 1953 has the same setup with the NSS something to check for your particular issue. 

Good luck..!

[mooman929]

Thanks for the reply.  I've located the brass collar and like a said the horn will work intermittently.  Seems like in on spot on the collar only.  Not sure why... I cleaned it as good as I could and everything seems to be making contact

[mooman929]

Yes 49er the plastic washer is there.  The horn only beeps sometimes in certain spots when I turn the wheel

[Bobby B]

Ross,
  Hi...Of course you can  ....
  First off, it sounds like your problem is, and was, originally in the column wiring and not the relay. Anyway, if you're 100% sure it's NOT in the column wiring (as in a broken/frayed wire, which you should ring out first before you even bother with the relay) or associated with the column, that relay gets wired as follows: Your Feed or "HOT" wire on Terminal #3, the Horns on Terminal  #1, and your "Trigger" or Ground (Negative) from the column on Terminal #5. When you push the horn button it complete the 12V coil circuit by giving it a "Negative", and in turn closes the internal switch and sends the power or "Feed" (12V +) from Terminal#3 out to your Horns on Terminal #1. It's a simple circuit, but EVERYTHING must be Grounded properly to make it work, including the horns, the car frame, etc., etc. Modern relays use 4-wire circuits and are usually made of plastic. They don't share the Feed "Hot" (or Source) with the coil Feed. Basically 2 independent circuits. Hope this Helps.  Good Luck!
                                                                                                    Bobby

[mooman929]

Ok so I have the switched negative on 1. Hot on 5, and horns on 3....

[mooman929]

Mine is a 6 vt system so i wont comment as the positioning might be different. Pressing down button hard, does it blow

Yes but only intermittently.... Seems like it will blow only with steering wheel in certain position and sometimes the relay just clicks in this position and then if I turn the wheel to a different spot nothing happens and I don't get any ground coming from that wiring from the steering column.

[J. Gomez]

Ok so I have the switched negative on 1. Hot on 5, and horns on 3....

If you have the relay you attached on the above post the wire from the horn should be on #5 (one side of the coil), positive should be on #3 (the other side of the coil) and the horns on #1 (extending positive to the horns). Ok I'm talking negative ground systems here. 

One way to isolate the issue with the NSS and/or the brass collar is;

Removed the NSS from the column, I know it may be a pain to get in that tight spot. 

Clip and alligator clip to a good ground on the frame, insert the other end inside the hole to make with the collar.

Move the steering on end to end and see if there are any open spots on the collar that would break the path. The brass collar is not too thick so it could well have areas that worn out from age and use.

It is always a good idea to lightly coat the collar with dielectric grease and/or petroleum jelly.

[mooman929]

If you have the relay you attached on the above post the wire from the horn should be on #5 (one side of the coil), positive should be on #3 (the other side of the coil) and the horns on #1 (extending positive to the horns). Ok I'm talking negative ground systems here. 

One way to isolate the issue with the NSS and/or the brass collar is;

Removed the NSS from the column, I know it may be a pain to get in that tight spot. 

Clip and alligator clip to a good ground on the frame, insert the other end inside the hole to make with the collar.

Move the steering on end to end and see if there are any open spots on the collar that would break the path. The brass collar is not too thick so it could well have areas that worn out from age and use.

It is always a good idea to lightly coat the collar with dielectric grease and/or petroleum jelly.

Thank you very much I've sprayed wd40 on the collar but I'll try the grease and so what I come up with.  My wiring obviously  is hooked up wrong but my horns do seem to blow once in a while so I don't know why that is but I'll switch things around and see what happens

[mooman929]

So the wiring I have shown in this picture is the only way that it could possibly work.  Starting left to right I have the battery, then the horn wire then the ground wire to the steering wheel.... if I put the battery anywhere else it make the relay click and get hot as soon as I touch it.  I hooked a test light to the battery and removed the black wire I have shown which is the ground.  When I touch the relay terminal which is terminal 1, it make the horns kinda chirp and the relay make a buzzing noise and the test light lights up..... Don't know how this is possible with a 12 volt test light.... Starting to think something might be shorted out in the relay possibly??  With everything hooked up my horn won't work at all now.  I test all the way around the brass ring and I'm getting ground with the steering wheel button

[Bobby B]

Can you identify the terminals of YOUR Relay? That's not the one shown in your first picture..
                                                                                                           Bobby

[J. Gomez]

Ross,

The horns will draw large current so they would need a good +12V source to properly operate.

Remove all of the wires from the relay;

If you know which of the two wires comes from the steering wheel horn place it on the relay #5.
If you know with one has +12V place it on the relay terminal #3.
Connect a test light to a good ground/negative and the tip to relay #1.

Press the steering wheel horn and go around end-to-end, see if the test light turns off at any of the rotations.

This will tell you if there is a possible open spot in the NSS or the collar.

After this test;

Connect the horns back.
Removed the +12V from the relay.
Connect a test wire from a good reliable +12V source i.e. battery terminal and retest it again.

Your problem could well be a bad +12V source or bad wire.

The existing +12V wire would be going over to the voltage regulator “B” terminal, just as FYI.

[mooman929]

Can you identify the terminals of YOUR Relay? That's not the one shown in your first picture..
                                                                                                           Bobby

Yes it is

[mooman929]

Ross,

The horns will draw large current so they would need a good +12V source to properly operate.

Remove all of the wires from the relay;

If you know which of the two wires comes from the steering wheel horn place it on the relay #5.
If you know with one has +12V place it on the relay terminal #3.
Connect a test light to a good ground/negative and the tip to relay #1.

Press the steering wheel horn and go around end-to-end, see if the test light turns off at any of the rotations.

This will tell you if there is a possible open spot in the NSS or the collar.

After this test;

Connect the horns back.
Removed the +12V from the relay.
Connect a test wire from a good reliable +12V source i.e. battery terminal and retest it again.

Your problem could well be a bad +12V source or bad wire.

The existing +12V wire would be going over to the voltage regulator “B” terminal, just as FYI.

I actually just have my 12v wire hooked directly to my battery

[J. Gomez]

I actually just have my 12v wire hooked directly to my battery

Good..!

Then you can removed the one from the steering wheel which should be at terminal #5 and place a good ground on this terminal the horns should operate.

Just a quick test for the relay function. 

[mooman929]

Good..!

Then you can removed the one from the steering wheel which should be at terminal #5 and place a good ground on this terminal the horns should operate.

Just a quick test for the relay function. 

Ok thank you!  I will try this tomorrow....

[mooman929]

If all else checks out good then it has to be the brass post with the spring on it that screws into the steering column Nyone know where I could locate of of these?

[mooman929]

Soo.. I worked with it a little bit ago and the way I originally have it wired is the only way it'll work.  U don't know why I tried hooking things up the way you told me to and it acts like it's  backwards..... not saying your wrong just maybe it's the wrong way for this relay.  It looks just like the one I have pictured.  I've eliminated it down to the brass post that the wire clips onto I think because I'm only getting ground through the wire on one position of the steering column but getting ground all the way around the brass ring when I remove the post cover where the spring is....

[mooman929]

This is the only way mine will work.... if I'm reading this right the bottom post is 5, middle is 3 and top is 1??? Is that correct?